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Least favorite theory?

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1 hour ago, SuperMario said:

I agree with this completely. Worst theory ever, but sadly from what the show has shown us in addition to text from TWOIAF, I sadly see this being true.

It's so weird for that theory to be true cause it feels like it goes against Tyrion's whole narrative arc, despite the hints towards it....I also don't like it.

Edited by Lady Anna

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1 hour ago, SuperMario said:

I agree with this completely. Worst theory ever, but sadly from what the show has shown us in addition to text from TWOIAF, I sadly see this being true.

It's definitely something that's deliberately referenced, there's too many hints- his dragon obsession, mismatched eyes, Aerys lusting for Joanna, the dragon needing a third head, etc. I still think it probably isn't true, I've got three reasons why these hints are there-

- It's a deliberate diversion, to direct us away from Jon, the real secret Targaryen

- It's something he was considering when he first wrote the books (I think a lot of these hints are quite early on, except the Aerys/Joanna one), and decided against it. Obviously he should never be influenced by what the fans want, but hopefully he would have seen people's valid criticism of the plot point, if he was seriously considering it. Remember his whole "gardener not an architect" thing.

- I started watching a tv show halfway through writing this, and I've forgot the third one, but I definitely had one.

One strong bit of evidence for Tywin being Tyrion's dad I got on a re-read is the little speech Genna Lannister gives Jaime, telling him he isn't like Tywin- "Tyrion is Tywin's son". It's a chapter ender, strongly emphasised, it might not seem like much but it's hard to reconcile with the idea of Tyrion not being Tywin's son.

Edited by mankytoes

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Tyrion being a secret Targ is the super lamest ever theory as it utterly spoils his story. It's cool to have him kill his father and it's stupid to have his father turn out to be Aerys all along.

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2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

You said:

Not just those who'd be trained much of their lives for this(which is honestly would be the nobles, the Knights), for a career in the military. A lot of  peasant men( males 15+) are drafted to fill a quota. They don't have the option to refuse orders and instead quit to which they'd get set up with a nobleman's wife. They follow orders or they die.  Arya murdered  someone she saw so no reason to die other than to keep in an order whose made it very clear should she ask to simply  they'd set her up with a life of leisure and mundaneness.

Knights when given order to attack group A do so with the excuse of a higher purpose: family, country, they honestly believe they are making a better place.

It's not because Arya is a girl she's being speculated to becoming a psychopath it's her increasing lessening need for  justification for having to kill

As a member of the House of Black & White, Arya also believes she's doing the right thing. By your logic, that makes it okay. And saying that knights "honestly believe they are making a better place"? That's sarcasm, right? Knights kill because they're told to, just like Arya. They show their fealty to their lord by obeying - just like Arya. And as for Arya's alleged, "lessening need for justification", I'm not seeing it. She agonized for many days whether she could justify TO HERSELF to kill the old fraudster.

Comparing Arya, who presented herself as an accolyte for training at the House of Black & White with a child inductee isn't valid. She should be compared with those who commit themselves to training at arms, as accolytes to knighthood. They start at about the same age as Arya, maybe younger.

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Re: Tyrion Aerysson Targaryen. I hate this theory, too. And using his obsession with dragons as a possible clue is, I feel, lame. Who isn't obsessed with dragons? Anybody here like dinosaurs? Well, did you when you were a kid? Exactly! It's a universal thing. You don't have to be a Targaryen or Blackfyre to think about dragons a lot and wish you had one.

This parallels the argument I've seen often on this forum (not this topic) that Euron Greyjoy is a green-seeing wharg because "when he was a child, he dreamed he could fly." Well, who hasn't? Many times. Okay, put THAT down as another theory that I really hate.

I apologize if this mundanity is unwelcome. And I still like Arya.

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14 hours ago, bent branch said:

m sure that there are people who think that my most hated theory is that Aegon is a Blackfyre.

Even if he's Blackfyre aren't they Targs?

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Oh gods, I could post a long list of theories that I don't like but it would be too long.  For starters, I don't like the following:

  1. Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon
  2. Barristan will die in the Battle of Fire

I do not believe the first.  The second is not likely because he will lead the divine Targaryen forces when Dany reclaims Westeros from the three stooges, Stannis, Tommen, and Euron.

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4 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

All killing no matter the reason or context is equally morally egregious.

What about self-defence and protecting weaks?

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1 minute ago, zandru said:

As a member of the House of Black & White, Arya also believes she's doing the right thing. By your logic, that makes it okay. And saying that knights "honestly believe they are making a better place"? That's sarcasm, right? Knights kill because they're told to, just like Arya. They show their fealty to their lord by obeying - just like Arya. And as for Arya's alleged, "lessening need for justification", I'm not seeing it. She agonized for many days whether she could justify TO HERSELF to kill the old fraudster.

And ultimately when she couldn't she did so anyway for a group she ultimately knows nothing about other than they bring death upon certain people in response to having been paid certain amount to do so. 

She believes coming to the house she will fill the emptiness she has been growing within her as more and more of the people she loved was stripped away. 

I sympathize with her.

How could anyone not?

But she killed someone who she had no reason to believe was guilty of anything because the murdeous cult she had tried to find meaning in told her to or simply leave.

8 minutes ago, zandru said:

As a member of the House of Black & White, Arya also believes she's doing the right thing. By your logic, that makes it okay. And saying that knights "honestly believe they are making a better place"? That's sarcasm, right? Knights kill because they're told to, just like Arya.

No it doesn't. The mountain breaking a woman's face because she said something when he wanted quiet is not ok by virtue of him thinking it's right. 

Not all  knights are pure paragons who only desire a better world; plenty of them are dough bags.  But, a lot of the could very use that excuse along with serving  the interests of their family and country for when they are ordered to kill by their master. Arya can't. With any action context is needed to establish the true morality of it. 

20 minutes ago, zandru said:

Comparing Arya, who presented herself as an accolyte for training at the House of Black & White with a child inductee isn't valid. She should be compared with those who commit themselves to training at arms, as accolytes to knighthood. They start at about the same age as Arya, maybe yo

Knights are taught to protect, to serve, their country there stated mission is that purpose; the Faceless men only bring death and are clearly trying (and seemingly succeeding), in abandoning her humananity for serving that purpose as well.

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18 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Knights are taught to protect, to serve, their country there stated mission is that purpose; the Faceless men only bring death and are clearly trying (and seemingly succeeding), in abandoning her humananity for serving that purpose as well.

Okay, then we have a fundamental philosophical difference which won't be overcome by further discussion. Kind of like the "love Sansa/hate Sansa" debates.

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3 minutes ago, zandru said:

Okay, then we have a fundamental philosophical difference which won't be overcome by further discussion. Kind of like the "love Sansa/hate Sansa" debates.

Don't hate Arya. I simply recognize how like Bran sees dangerously close to losing the little spark of goodness she has. She murdered for a group she knows really nothing really about outside they're magic and kill people.

But yes this conversation appears to be a waste.

If we can't even we agree Arya's murder of somone based on the orders of a group she basically knows nothing about besides them indiscriminately killing those that they are hired to might be just a little slightly troubling, yes further discussion would be pointless.

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Rhaegar annulling his marriage, marrying Lyanna, prophecy obsession...pretty much anything Rhaegar related. Also, Dany becoming the Mad Queen or dying of childbirth. Just no. It's not good storytelling.

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9 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Rhaegar annulling his marriage, marrying Lyanna, prophecy obsession...pretty much anything Rhaegar related.

Haven't heard of the annulling theory. Seems silly when Targs are often polygamists, he could marry two women.

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2 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Even if he's Blackfyre aren't they Targs?

I think it depends on what point you are trying to make. Do you consider Stannis a Targ? Do you consider Brienne a Targ? Do you consider Ben Plumm a Targ? Do you consider the Martells Targs? Are you making a determination of Targness based on the amount of Targ blood or do you see the Blackfyres as being the same family?

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so at least tell me what point you are trying to make.

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5 hours ago, bent branch said:

I think it depends on what point you are trying to make. Do you consider Stannis a Targ? Do you consider Brienne a Targ? Do you consider Ben Plumm a Targ? Do you consider the Martells Targs? Are you making a determination of Targness based on the amount of Targ blood or do you see the Blackfyres as being the same family?

I don't want to put words in your mouth, so at least tell me what point you are trying to make.

I wanted to say that Blackfyres are biologically Targaryens.

 

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5 hours ago, Kandrax said:

I wanted to say that Blackfyres are biologically Targaryens.

Or at least have a high proportion of Targaryen ancestry. Most likely, Blackfyres have a lot more than the Tarths, Martells, and Plumms. Maybe even Baratheons. On the other hand, it would be necessary for me to consult an (accurate) family tree. Also, what we consider "Targaryen" crucial traits - the dragonbinding in particular - may not always get passed on. Are superficial traits important? Silver hair, purple eyes, etc?

Note that Tyrion has none of the above, and we've never seen him in close proximity to a dragon. Jaime/Cersei have the stereotypical "Lannister gold" traits, right down to the  green eyes with golden flecks. On the other hand, when she was a starry-eyed girl, Cersei drew a picture of herself and Rhaegar on a dragon, so maybe that's all the "proof" we need.

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16 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

It's so weird for that theory to be true cause it feels like it goes against Tyrion's whole narrative arc, despite the hints towards it....I also don't like it.

But George loves Targaryens. All of his recent writing has been on Targaryen history. And what better way to reward his self-proclaimed favorite character in the story with the prize of actually being a Targaryen.

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16 hours ago, mankytoes said:

It's definitely something that's deliberately referenced, there's too many hints- his dragon obsession, mismatched eyes, Aerys lusting for Joanna, the dragon needing a third head, etc. I still think it probably isn't true, I've got three reasons why these hints are there-

- It's a deliberate diversion, to direct us away from Jon, the real secret Targaryen

- It's something he was considering when he first wrote the books (I think a lot of these hints are quite early on, except the Aerys/Joanna one), and decided against it. Obviously he should never be influenced by what the fans want, but hopefully he would have seen people's valid criticism of the plot point, if he was seriously considering it. Remember his whole "gardener not an architect" thing.

- I started watching a tv show halfway through writing this, and I've forgot the third one, but I definitely had one.

One strong bit of evidence for Tywin being Tyrion's dad I got on a re-read is the little speech Genna Lannister gives Jaime, telling him he isn't like Tywin- "Tyrion is Tywin's son". It's a chapter ender, strongly emphasised, it might not seem like much but it's hard to reconcile with the idea of Tyrion not being Tywin's son.

Except that it’s a massive parallel to Jon and Ned... There is a difference between the father who conceived you and the one who raised you. 

It also explains why he is a POV in Game of Thrones, since everyone else is directly related:

Ned, Cat 

Tyrion, Jon, Dany 

Sansa, Arya, Bran 

Fun note, either way it goes for Tyrion, all the male characters are second sons

Honestly, I would guess we don’t find out for sure, but I’ll have made up my mind if/when he rides a dragon.

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2 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Honestly, I would guess we don’t find out for sure, but I’ll have made up my mind if/when he rides a dragon.

He could be a dragon rider without being a Targaryen, no? I don't know what the consensus here is about dragon riders.

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