US Politics: Loyalty Oaths for Everyone!

[Yukle]

12 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Anyone know if a state can indict a President? Seems like they would wait and not risk it being viewed as as a coup. Seems likely Trump will die before a conviction.

The answer is yes, as the states and federal governments are considered co-sovereign.

However, there is nothing forcing the federal government to comply.

[DanteGabriel]

19 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Anyone know if a state can indict a President? Seems like they would wait and not risk it being viewed as as a coup. Seems likely Trump will die before a conviction.

I imagine, if a state could do so, Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia would have come up with something to indict Obama over.

I fear you're right he'd due before a conviction. But whatever happens to him, his family and their businesses must be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground. Sow salt over the ashes of the Trump name so none of that congenitally fucked up family ever feel joy or pride ever again.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Yukle said:

As pessimistic as it sounds, I am so grateful not to be an American right now. Your republic is dead. Trump is your first dictator.

This seems a bit hyperbolic, no? As others have pointed out, the fact that our institutions have contained him for the most part shows that the system is holding strong......for now. 

That said, while the republic is not dead, it is decaying, and I can't think of any solution or course of action to fix it outside of Trump failing so badly that it sobers everyone up. 

2 hours ago, Inigima said:

It still blows my mind that a member of Trump's transition team was allowed to head the House investigation into it.

2 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

While being 'recused'.

I thought I read that Ryan gave him the thumbs up to take over the committee again. 

 

[Yukle]

1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

I imagine, if a state could do so, Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia would have come up with something to indict Obama over.

Strangely enough, they always could, and their failure to do so is proof of how it was only ever shouting and screeching at a black man for having the audacity to become president.

Obama never broke the law. It's fair to say that at times he was probably acting out of its spirit, but that's not the same thing.

State can prosecute a sitting president, although there are restrictions. His actual conduct as president is legally immune. However, his actions before being sworn in, and anything he does outside of his official capacity is possible. This has been tested with Clinton (although he settled out of court).

Let's face it, though, Trump could have an affair with Monica Lewinski and the Republicans would protect him.

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, Yukle said:

The answer is yes, as the states and federal governments are considered co-sovereign.

However, there is nothing forcing the federal government to comply.

 

2 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I imagine, if a state could do so, Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia would have come up with something to indict Obama over.

I fear you're right he'd due before a conviction. But whatever happens to him, his family and their businesses must be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground. Sow salt over the ashes of the Trump name so none of that congenitally fucked up family ever feel joy or pride ever again.

Yukle I believe you said you're not from 'Murica so let me tell you what New Yawk would do to make the Feds comply.

Long threatened against the enemies of that filthy city has been the FINAL SOLUTION. You see, back in 1935 (B.C.) a contingency of concerned patriots recognized that should a despot seize control of THE REPUBLIC (   ), should the South actually rise again, or if the Bros simply became too Bromantic in the West. The bastion of 30 Rockafellar Center had to have a response.

And so, the first council of the Saturday Night Lives set to work on a series of mechanisms that could be used to save THE REPUBLIC.

They watch over us to this day. Ever ready to drive the filthy masses of Jersey from the shores. Inwards they will be driven, until the capitol is under flood from Snookies.

THAT is what New York can do.

[Yukle]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

This seems a bit hyperbolic, no? As others have pointed out, the fact that our institutions have contained him for the most part shows that the system is holding strong......for now. 

I don't thing the institutions are holding at all. The FBI is slowly being cut to pieces, the Supreme Court is now safely back in conservative hands, the electoral map was drawn by gerrymanders.

People who have recused themselves are still interfering in an investigation and Mueller will be fired soon.

The intelligence council is one of America's institutions and it just voted to release a memo that exonerates Trump in some way.

The Republicans aren't stupid, and they're not going to lose Congress. They are even leading in campaign financing - incredibly. They don't need a majority of voters (obviously) and it doesn't matter, just enough to hold on.

Just you wait - soon enough they'll expand the court to 9 to ensure a more stable majority, they'll merge the liberal federal courts into the conservative-dominated ones, they'll do away with the convention that opposition members get to sit in all committees...

One by one, the institutions are failing. Time and time again Trump is exposed, and time and time again, he emerges unscathed.

[GAROVORKIN]

12 minutes ago, Yukle said:

I don't thing the institutions are holding at all. The FBI is slowly being cut to pieces, the Supreme Court is now safely back in conservative hands, the electoral map was drawn by gerrymanders.

People who have recused themselves are still interfering in an investigation and Mueller will be fired soon.

The intelligence council is one of America's institutions and it just voted to release a memo that exonerates Trump in some way.

The Republicans aren't stupid, and they're not going to lose Congress. They are even leading in campaign financing - incredibly. They don't need a majority of voters (obviously) and it doesn't matter, just enough to hold on.

Just you wait - soon enough they'll expand the court to 9 to ensure a more stable majority, they'll merge the liberal federal courts into the conservative-dominated ones, they'll do away with the convention that opposition members get to sit in all committees...

One by one, the institutions are failing. Time and time again Trump is exposed, and time and time again, he emerges unscathed.

It has all the makings of a Hollywood conspiracy thriller movie.  

[The Anti-Targ]

49 minutes ago, Yukle said:

 

Let's face it, though, Trump could have an affair with Monica Lewinski and the Republicans would protect him.

They would tell her that she should consider herself blessed to have experienced the intimate affections of the dear leader.

[Gertrude]

54 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

But whatever happens to him, his family and their businesses must be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground. Sow salt over the ashes of the Trump name so none of that congenitally fucked up family ever feel joy or pride ever again.

This is what I want for the Trump legacy and I want Trump to live to see how royally he fucked things up. Normally I am not so vengeful, but Trump's hubris in thinking he can wing his way through being president and not give one single fuck about taking his job seriously and see it as a way to expand his brand and personal wealth... just fuck him and his complicit family.

(Tiffany has done a good job at distancing herself, so she's aight. Barron too, obviously. Melania tied her wagon to the Donald and even though she seems by every measure not to want or support his presidency, she's still with him, so she deserves some of the blame too.)

[Martell Spy]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

I imagine, if a state could do so, Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia would have come up with something to indict Obama over.

I fear you're right he'd due before a conviction. But whatever happens to him, his family and their businesses must be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground. Sow salt over the ashes of the Trump name so none of that congenitally fucked up family ever feel joy or pride ever again.

No, you do it so no one tries this for a long time. Make the name Trump  as hated as Nixon...or perhaps Arnold Benedict.

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Nah, fuck Tiffany and Baron too. They have gorged on corrupt money. Let them feel just a small amount of the fear and insecurity that all these poor DACA kids have had to go through. The entire Trump infestation must be cleansed. Torn out, root and branch. Purged with fire, the Biblical cleanser. Spare none of them so that none may profit further from their monstrous father's crimes.

God, you're so fucking hot right now!

I mentioned you in a story in the last NFL thread brah! You just think you're better than me!

[Week]

3 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Nah, fuck Tiffany and Baron too. They have gorged on corrupt money. Let them feel just a small amount of the fear and insecurity that all these poor DACA kids have had to go through. The entire Trump infestation must be cleansed. Torn out, root and branch. Purged with fire, the Biblical cleanser. Spare none of them so that none may profit further from their monstrous father's crimes.

And grandfather's and great grandfather's (granted -- tax and military service dodging only -- seems to be a pattern in this garbage family)

[DanteGabriel]

19 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

God, you're so fucking hot right now!

I mentioned you in a story in the last NFL thread brah! You just think you're better than me!

I... didn't comment because I didn't want to make Tywin jealous.

[DanteGabriel]

25 minutes ago, Week said:

And grandfather's and great grandfather's (granted -- tax and military service dodging only -- seems to be a pattern in this garbage family)

You know, if I were a perfectly compassionate person, I would feel pity for the orange monster. I think he is legitimately pretty dumb, and I think he got shit on a lot as a kid by his equally monstrous piece of shit father. And his mother probably loathed him (I read an account that she said out loud, "What did I raise?" or something to that effect in the middle of her son's divorce circus and affair with Marla Maples).

The problem with that suppurating lump of congealed demon jizz is that he turns everything around him into a perverted hellscape to match his interior life. And he inflicted the same kind of fucked up shit on his vile children. You don't turn out as dumb and vicious and ugly as those sons do without a lot of nurture as well as nature. Remember how the evil shit in Ghostbusters II was powered by New York's hate and misery? The Trump family could fill a sewer with hate-slime all by themselves.

And oh hey, I still think James Comey is a stone moron and partially responsible for knifing the Republic, but this was nice:

Naive, probably -- the same kind of politically stupid Ned Stark naivete that caused him to flip the election, but nice.

[LongRider]

42 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Nah, fuck Tiffany and Baron too. They have gorged on corrupt money. Let them feel just a small amount of the fear and insecurity that all these poor DACA kids have had to go through. The entire Trump infestation must be cleansed. Torn out, root and branch. Purged with fire, the Biblical cleanser. Spare none of them so that none may profit further from their monstrous father's crimes.

As the man sez;  Rip them all down!

 

[Guy Kilmore]

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I imagine, if a state could do so, Alabama or Mississippi or Georgia would have come up with something to indict Obama over.

I fear you're right he'd due before a conviction. But whatever happens to him, his family and their businesses must be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground. Sow salt over the ashes of the Trump name so none of that congenitally fucked up family ever feel joy or pride ever again.

 

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

This is what I want for the Trump legacy and I want Trump to live to see how royally he fucked things up. Normally I am not so vengeful, but Trump's hubris in thinking he can wing his way through being president and not give one single fuck about taking his job seriously and see it as a way to expand his brand and personal wealth... just fuck him and his complicit family.

(Tiffany has done a good job at distancing herself, so she's aight. Barron too, obviously. Melania tied her wagon to the Donald and even though she seems by every measure not to want or support his presidency, she's still with him, so she deserves some of the blame too.)

This is where I am at, but it is more than just about Trump, it is letting people know that grifting your way to the presidency is a path of ruin.

[Altherion]

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

I fear you're right he'd due before a conviction. But whatever happens to him, his family and their businesses must be reduced to a smoking hole in the ground. Sow salt over the ashes of the Trump name so none of that congenitally fucked up family ever feel joy or pride ever again.

This isn't going to happen, but suppose that you were magically empowered to make it so. Would you really want this? Think it through: in the entire history of the US, there has not been an administration that has tried to hang on to power beyond its lawful term. This is in large part because the entire system is designed to resist this and it would be exceedingly difficult to do it, but the other reason against it is that the Presidents who walk away from power become elder statesmen with a respectable annual income (plus potentially a lot more via books, speeches, etc.) and plenty of opportunities to boost their family in politics and in business.

Trump is a more polarizing President than most, but he is certainly not the only polarizing President in US history. If you treat him as described in your post, the next polarizing President (and there will surely be one) will have a choice not between fighting for power, probably losing and thus facing ruin on the one hand and becoming an elder statesman on the other, but between fighting for power, probably losing and facing ruin on the one and possibly facing ruin anyway on the other. It can be argued that one of the defining feature of democratic societies is a non-vindictive transition of power (we even let Nixon off the hook). I realize you hate Trump, but do you hate him enough to break this tradition?

[Martell Spy]

35 minutes ago, Altherion said:

This isn't going to happen, but suppose that you were magically empowered to make it so. Would you really want this? Think it through: in the entire history of the US, there has not been an administration that has tried to hang on to power beyond its lawful term. This is in large part because the entire system is designed to resist this and it would be exceedingly difficult to do it, but the other reason against it is that the Presidents who walk away from power become elder statesmen with a respectable annual income (plus potentially a lot more via books, speeches, etc.) and plenty of opportunities to boost their family in politics and in business.

Trump is a more polarizing President than most, but he is certainly not the only polarizing President in US history. If you treat him as described in your post, the next polarizing President (and there will surely be one) will have a choice not between fighting for power, probably losing and thus facing ruin on the one hand and becoming an elder statesman on the other, but between fighting for power, probably losing and facing ruin on the one and possibly facing ruin anyway on the other. It can be argued that one of the defining feature of democratic societies is a non-vindictive transition of power (we even let Nixon off the hook). I realize you hate Trump, but do you hate him enough to break this tradition?

We didn't let Nixon off the hook, Ford did. And he took a lot of shit for doing it, too.

There is a sort of tradition among Administrations not being retributive against past Admins though. For example, there was a lot of people like the torture memo assholes that liberals would have liked some action against and Obama didn't do it. It's a lot like the tradition of Civil War and Revolutionary war officer prisoners, where officers are treated a lot better than captured common soldiers. The tradition carries because one day you might be the prisoner or someone you know. However, this is only a tradition among Presidents and their Admins. It has nothing to do with Congress or the people, or states for that matter.

 

[GAROVORKIN]

1 minute ago, Martell Spy said:

We didn't let Nixon off the hook, Ford did. And he took a lot of shit for doing it, too.

There is a sort of tradition among Administrations not being retributive against past Admins though. For example, there was a lot of people like the torture memo assholes that liberals would have liked some action against and Obama didn't do it. It's a lot like the tradition of Civil War and Revolutionary war officer prisoners, where officers are treated a lot better than captured common soldiers. The tradition carries because one day you might be the prisoner or someone you know. However, this is only a tradition among Presidents and their Admins. It has nothing to do with Congress or the people, or states for that matter.

 

All Richard Nixon had to do was accept responsibility and blame Watergate. He he done so apologized, The Public would have forgiven him because at that time he had huge surplus of goodwill from the voter from his 1972 election landslide. Watergate would gone awsy and become a historical footnote. He would have gotten to service out his second Term and Its possible that Gerald Ford who would have still run in 1976 would have become president and maybe for two terms.

 It's possible that Gerald Ford reasoned  that  pardoning, Nixon was the lesser or two evils. Because not pardoning him might have caused strife and political civil war and unrest  in the country. As it was pardoning him destroyed whatever  trust the voter had in Government. Polcially isn cost Ford the 1976 Election. 

 

[Martell Spy]

A poor person must have kicked Paul Ryan's ass as a kid or something. He thinks of nothing but destroying them.

Quote

 

During a Wednesday night retreat session, for example, Ryan was in full salesman mode. He told lawmakers they need to prioritize “getting people the skills and opportunity to get into the workforce,” according to a person in the room. And he insisted the idea is popular.

He emphasized the “jobs” piece of the equation, pointing out that there are 6.6 million people on unemployment and more than 5.8 million open jobs. That skills gap, he said, could be filled by the unemployed population if the government provided the facilities to link the two.

“We need to focus on closing the skills gap,” he said, reading from a month-old Washington Post headline that said: “2018’s challenges: too many jobs, not enough workers.” “Our goal should be helping those people close that skills gap. This improves people’s lives, and it helps our economy in general.”

 

Ryan renews welfare reform push
But the House speaker is once again running into resistance from the Senate.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/01/welfare-reform-gop-paul-ryan-382591