Jump to content
The Anti-Targ

Marvel Cinematic Universe General Discussion No H8 M8 Just Gr8

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Werthead said:

Our heroes did forget the immense number of deaths he caused in The Avengers a little bit too easily.



Well, Thor did, but I can let that slide for (1) family can get that way and (2) Loki's supposed to be this changeable tricksy manipulative character.

But even if that bothers you, and it's a valid criticism, it doesn't take away from Loki in Avengers, does it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/13/2018 at 11:34 AM, red snow said:

Yeah, I doubt it's a 10 or a 1 in all honesty. Extremes are probably connected with agendas and fanboys (Marvel and DC).

One review I read (think it was the Guardian) said it's the best looking and sounding Marvel film to date yet it still makes the same old mistake in the third act of degenerating into a CGI fight-fest at the end. They do at least say it's pretty self contained besides maybe requiring the viewer having seen Civil War (and Age of Ultron for Ulysees Klaw).

I'll be seeing it at the weekend.

While it's great the film's getting a lot of coverage for it being a black superhero film - I kind of feel sorry for Wesley Snipes with what arguably got the whole superhero franchise off the ground in "Blade". Did people not care back then or was I just too young (and without the internet) to notice? Obviously this film has the benefit of the having a black director and fully embracing a psuedo-african culture whereas "Blade" just had Blade in it. I vaguely recall Snipes wanting to make a Black Panther film but I think his jail-time got in the way of that?

And yet other critics say there's not enough action in he movie, but what action there is is great.

Re Blade. I think Blade is a superhero film with a Black lead. Black Panther is a Black super hero film. 

Edited by The Anti-Targ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

And yet other critics say there's not enough action in he movie, but what action there is is great.

Re Blade. I think Blade is a superhero film with a Black lead. Black Panther is a Black super hero film. 

There's a lot of action in the film. Whether it's more or less than other movies is another question but there are multiple, large set-pieces, several one-on-one ritual duels, the casino fight and car chase in South Korea, the concluding battle in Wakanda and more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched BP. It's decent, but nowhere in fuck a 100% or 98% or whatever movie. I'd say 3.5 / 5 stars.

I'm getting sick and tired of reviewers' need to praise popcorn movies as thematic masterpieces. BP is "a political movie about the corrosive influence of power and the responbilities of ruling" the same way that Iron Man 3 was a movie about PTSD. Meaning that a couple of characters make some predictable statements a la "you need to figure out what kind of king you want to be" (yes, a character actually says that, in a Deep kinda way), but that's it.

And forget whatever praise you've read for the villain. He had a single funny, one-word line, and otherwise not a single memorable scene in the film. Kept waiting for it after all the praise, but it didn't happen. He's strictly in the Aldritch Killian / that-bald-dude-from-Antman ballpark, with no motivation but wanting to rule and do a shake-and-bake worldwide revolution in 2 days.

Enjoy this as another Marvel movie with zero actual depth and a lot of unintentional Lion King references, but also some cool action sequences and show-stealing actresses (Danai Gurira as Okoye is GREAT) and some really good set and costume design. Apart from that, it primarily serves as formulaic, but effective representation and escapism for someone other than the usual white male audience.

Yeah, I liked it. But barely.

Edited by denstorebog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Yikes, that's the most depressing review I've seen for a movie someone liked. 100% or 98% means mostly everyone liked it, not that everyone thinks it's a 98% perfect film. I sometimes wonder how much more/less someone would like a film if they didn't engage with the reviews. I do feel, sometimes, people hold it against movies when they're universally praised.

I walk into everything wanting to love it, but if I end up simply liking it, it's still a worthwhile experience. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I did love this, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I will be brief for now and say I thought it was absolutely terrific fun. My theater was incredibly hyped. Sure I had some super minor beefs, but it was superb all around. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, denstorebog said:

Watched BP. It's decent, but nowhere in fuck a 100% or 98% or whatever movie...

Yeah, I liked it. But barely.

Saw Black Panther tonight and I hate to say that I gotta agree with this. I feel like it's definitely getting WAY more praise than it deserves from critics. Peter Travers called it a "masterpiece" in his review. Yikes. To call Travers' use of "masterpiece" hyperbole is like calling Trump's twitter account problematic--an understatement of bigly proportions. 

Black Panther is a decent superhero movie with tinges of some very relevant social commentary. It's a fun night at the cinema and delivers on what you'd expect from an MCU film at this point. (Well, with less overt attempts at humor.) It also gives Wonder Woman a run for its money in terms of number of heroines on screen. However, as an overall film--I couldn't place this in the Top 10 best MCU films. It's treading very familiar plot territory, even within the MCU. And given the outstanding cast, I found it to be surprisingly full of rather flat performances, Michael B. Jordan & Angela Bassett included. Danai Gurira, Forest Whitaker, & Sterling K. Brown being the exceptions. SK Brown was phenomenal actually. He's in only two scenes, but they're pivotal. And his performance is just so pure and real. 

Chadwick Boseman does a good enough job in the titular role; his T'challa is very diplomatic, contemplative, and understanding. But that danger and gravitas that the T'challa I know from the comics (Illuminati T'challa) just doesn't come across on screen for me. Now, someone might say that this Black Panther is lacking in those departments due to his newness in his position as king; however, I saw a much more fearsome and formidable Panther/T'challa in Civil War than I did in Black Panther. So I know the character and actor is capable of delivering on screen more than I saw in this film. And that's frustrating as a moviegoer and MCU fan. Black Panther is by no definition bad superhero movie, it's just not a masterpiece either.

Edited by PetyrPunkinhead
link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, denstorebog said:

Watched BP. It's decent, but nowhere in fuck a 100% or 98% or whatever movie. I'd say 3.5 / 5 stars.

I'm getting sick and tired of reviewers' need to praise popcorn movies as thematic masterpieces. BP is "a political movie about the corrosive influence of power and the responbilities of ruling" the same way that Iron Man 3 was a movie about PTSD. Meaning that a couple of characters make some predictable statements a la "you need to figure out what kind of king you want to be" (yes, a character actually says that, in a Deep kinda way), but that's it.

And forget whatever praise you've read for the villain. He had a single funny, one-word line, and otherwise not a single memorable scene in the film. Kept waiting for it after all the praise, but it didn't happen. He's strictly in the Aldritch Killian / that-bald-dude-from-Antman ballpark, with no motivation but wanting to rule and do a shake-and-bake worldwide revolution in 2 days.

Enjoy this as another Marvel movie with zero actual depth and a lot of unintentional Lion King references, but also some cool action sequences and show-stealing actresses (Danai Gurira as Okoye is GREAT) and some really good set and costume design. Apart from that, it primarily serves as formulaic, but effective representation and escapism for someone other than the usual white male audience.

Yeah, I liked it. But barely.

If you were a Rotten tomatoes reviewer your score would have been in the 97%. So not sure why you think the 97% is is unwarranted. You basically agree, over all with 97% of reviewers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rotten Tomatoes also estimates average score of the reviews. 8.3/10 for the all critics score, 9/10 for the top critics, 77% audience score (bearing in mind this is being weighted down by the active anti-Disney/pro-DCU campaigns). Metacritic, which also estimates values, says critics are rating it at 87%. IMDB also gives a 7.5/10 score, but again, active campaigns.

For my part, a movie that's just okay until the last hour sounds like a 7-7.5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, denstorebog said:

Watched BP. It's decent, but nowhere in fuck a 100% or 98% or whatever movie. I'd say 3.5 / 5 stars.

I'm going to disagree and say it's a full five stars. It's not perfect, but if you require 100% perfection to give something 5/5 and 98% isn't enough your grading curve is skewed. I'd be happy giving this film 98%. 

I disagree completely about the thematic elements - they are strong and consistently reflected in the script and in what's on screen from beginning to end, not just in dialogue but in the events and in structure. 

Michael B. Jordan is excellent and his character is undoubtedly one of the best antagonists in the MCU. 

Also, there is no way those Lion King references are unintentional. :P

2 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

I couldn't place this in the Top 10 best MCU films.

You can't name 10 MCU films that can genuinely, honestly be called superior to this, so you're wrong. I can see arguments for two or three, maybe: I can imagine someone liking five or six better than this (which isn't the same as them being better), but 10 better MCU movies? There only are 18, and that's including The Incredible Hulk. This movie is in the bottom half? Not in any serious analysis. 

I'd have it in the top three, easily. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mormont said:

Also, there is no way those Lion King references are unintentional. :P

Please tell me there's a flashback of someone holding up baby T'Challa!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely nothing to do with the topic... but I saw this today and had to share.  :D 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really liked Black Panther. It gave me the drama that Thor Ragnarok left me wanting, and as an added bonus bucked the Marvel tradition of bad villains by having not one but two interesting ones in Serkis and Jordan's characters. I'd definitely rate it as one of the better Marvel movies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mormont said:

You can't name 10 MCU films that can genuinely, honestly be called superior to this, so you're wrong. I can see arguments for two or three, maybe: I can imagine someone liking five or six better than this (which isn't the same as them being better), but 10 better MCU movies? There only are 18, and that's including The Incredible Hulk. This movie is in the bottom half? Not in any serious analysis.

Yup. Black Panther is comfortably superior to all three Iron Mans, The Incredible HulkThor 1 & 2, Captain AmericaAge of UItronDoctor StrangeAnt-Man and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2. It's a bit closer but I'd still rate it higher than Spider-Man: Homecoming, Civil War and Thor: Ragnarok. The only movies really working on the same level are The AvengersWinter Soldier and Guardians of the GalaxyBlack Panther settles into that top tier with ease. It's not as funny as Guardians but not as weighty as Winter Soldier, nor as obviously crowd-pleasing as The Avengers, but it works on other levels to them. And with the possible exception of Loki, it certainly has a better villain than any of them.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saw it, it's excellent. Probably challenging for the best Marvel film with Winter Soldier, with Ragnarok in there too and GotG2 just behind.


It does to a really good job of not losing its characters in the inevitable Massive Smackdown but basing it around the personalities, so that helps it. Plus, Coogler is just really good at spectacle moments. Okay, nothing here quite beat Tony Bellew's rinwalk in Creed for sheer swagger, but he really knows how to make characters look cool/threatening/awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The moment Okoye says flat out that she would kill her boyfriend for Wakanda, if needed, was brilliant. 

When it comes to handling its secondary cast, Black Panther handily beats any other Marvel movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^jeez man, spoiler tag your post.

Just got back from seeing Black Panther, was impressed with the fluidity of the film. Coogler definitely delivered a fine addition to the MCU. 

One thing that stood out for me, in addition to what others have said above, was the score. Fucking superb, sets the mood for the scenes. 

@Liffguard #4.... that kiss though :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was pretty good. I'd put it in the #5-7 range of the MCU movies out now. A few parts got a little too talky and my mind did start to wander some. Now I don't need nonstop action but I did expect a little more in this. 

I also liked Shuri and knew the actress(Letitia Wright) looked familiar. She was Nish from the Black Mirror episode, Black Museum.

Edited by Ramsay B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed it. I loved the costumes and design and unlike the majority of Marvel films I think the villains often stole the show, Serkis, Jordan and the leader of the fifth tribe were all good. I was also really pleased that the film spent a lot of time asking "why didn't wakanda do anything throughout colonialism and slavery" and how it drove a lot of the story.

I weirdly enjoyed the James Bond elements and that the film may have been stronger if that had been the focus throughout.

Some spoiler comments

 

It was a real shame they lost Serkis at the half-way point. He was excellent and given the lack of strong marvel villains it was a shame he didn't stay around.

I had a slight issue with T'Challa being beaten. I kept waiting for the reveal that killmonger had taken the heart herb and that's why he won. As it is, I was left feeling like T'Challa's true strength came from the drugs and the tech as it was only once he had the two back that he was able to overcome Killmonger. That didn't really sit well for me. [/spoiler]

Major points for the film not being bogged down with marvel continuity and standing on it's own as a film with its own identity. It bucks the recent comedy trend and other than some background info a viewer could walk into this film having never seen a MCU film and enjoy.

Edited by red snow
spoiler tag edit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, red snow said:

I enjoyed it. I loved the costumes and design and unlike the majority of Marvel films I think the villains often stole the show, Serkis, Jordan and the leader of the fifth tribe were all good. I was also really pleased that the film spent a lot of time asking "why didn't wakanda do anything throughout colonialism and slavery" and how it drove a lot of the story.

I weirdly enjoyed the James Bond elements and that the film may have been stronger if that had been the focus throughout.

Some spoiler comments

  Reveal hidden contents

It was a real shame they lost Serkis at the half-way point. He was excellent and given the lack of strong marvel villains it was a shame he didn't stay around.

I had a slight issue with T'Challa being beaten. I kept waiting for the reveal that killmonger had taken the heart herb and that's why he won. As it is, I was left feeling like T'Challa's true strength came from the drugs and the tech as it was only once he had the two back that he was able to overcome Killmonger. That didn't really sit well for me. [/spoiler]

Major points for the film not being bogged down with marvel continuity and standing on it's own as a film with its own identity. It bucks the recent comedy trend and other than some background info a viewer could walk into this film having never seen a MCU film and enjoy.

Spoiler

See, I liked that Killmonger beat T'Challa in the ritual fight. At the time, Killmonger had more drive. He had spent his whole life preparing for that moment, while T'Challa had just become king and was more concerned with how to be a good king. He was regretful of what his father had done, and he underestimated Killmonger in what he was. The second time, their power levels were still equal, both had the Panther's abilities, but now T'Challa had the drive to win, as he told his father in the astral plane that he couldn't rest until he saved Wakanda from the monster they created.

Btw, there is a spoiler thread, these things could be best discussed there.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×