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Howdyphillip

Full frontal Star Wars - D&D Strike Back

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3 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I wonder if HBO apparently being quite happy to let D&D go but are holding GRRM on retainer is a tacit acknowledgement of who they regard as more important in the success of Game of Thrones?

Benioff and Weiss are interesting writers in that neither has written really acclaimed original material. Benioff had a decent novel turned into an okay film (The 25th Hour), another novel that was decent but massively historically inaccurate to the point of being distracting (City of Thieves), an okay-ish movie based on pre-existing material (Troy), a poor film based on pre-existing material (X-Men Origins: Wolverine, although he apparently tried to take his name off that and has admitted it's shite after other writes interfered with it), a decent film based on pre-existing material (The Kite Runner), four seasons of highly-regarded work but based quite closely on highly-acclaimed pre-existing material (Game of Thrones) and three seasons of a much more mixed reception when the original material vanished (Game of Thrones).

Weiss had one meh novel and several years in development hell on a Halo script before being rescued by Benioff to work on GoT.

Their main accomplishment so far has been in terms of mounting a very complex, ambitious production, getting material turned out in time to hit insanely challenging production deadlines on an annual basis and negotiating studio politics fairly astutely, showing good judgement on when to do exactly what the studio wants (rewrite the pilot!) and when to stand their ground and fight their corner (showing the battle in Blackwater and not wimping out on it). They're much better producers than writers.

I completly agree with you. I would even add that some of their creations in got were huge failures.

The best thing they wrote for got was probably hardhome and field of fire which are some of the best eps of the series. But there are so many problems with other things they did...

In regards to grrm, I think even if he wanted he can t help much in the writting department. He is a slow writter... If HBO is interested in new source material besides helping with the set up I don t think grrm can do much else... I think they are more interested in keeping the ASOIAF world and grrm inputs than anything else.

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3 hours ago, Werthead said:

four seasons of highly-regarded work but based quite closely on highly-acclaimed pre-existing material (Game of Thrones) and three seasons of a much more mixed reception when the original material vanished (Game of Thrones).

They have had seven seasons of highly-regarded work. Here, the reception was mixed, but that's not saying much.

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33 minutes ago, Dragon in the North said:

They have had seven seasons of highly-regarded work. Here, the reception was mixed, but that's not saying much.

Season 5 was pretty badly-reviewed right across the board because of the butchering of Dorne. The season did regain some lost ground with Hardhome. S6 was reasonably well-received. 7 was right in the middle: applauded for its epic scale and major set pieces, criticised for not making a damn lick of sense.

Compared to Seasons 1-4, which received a pretty universal seal of approval with multiple awards won, the latter part of the series has definitely had a more mixed reception, and not just here.

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36 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Season 5 was pretty badly-reviewed right across the board because of the butchering of Dorne. The season did regain some lost ground with Hardhome. S6 was reasonably well-received. 7 was right in the middle: applauded for its epic scale and major set pieces, criticised for not making a damn lick of sense.

Compared to Seasons 1-4, which received a pretty universal seal of approval with multiple awards won, the latter part of the series has definitely had a more mixed reception, and not just here.

I don't know where you're getting your facts from, but Game of Thrones is consistently rated high on rotten tomatoes, has continued to win emmys post-season 4, it's viewership numbers continue to rise from season to season, etc. I'm sure not everyone is happy with GOT once D&D ran out of source material, but they make up a very tiny fraction of the fandom. 

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1 hour ago, Dragon in the North said:

I'm sure not everyone is happy with GOT once D&D ran out of source material, but they make up a very tiny fraction of the fandom. 

The thing is, even in the more recent seasons they're still getting an awful lot from GRRM, with the characters, settings, and situations they're starting from, and at least some idea of where it's all supposed to end up. Even if you think they're still doing a good job (and it's not just book fans who have reservations), it's not much of an indication of what they're capable of as writers. They could probably do a good job of realising someone else's story, but can they come up with something decent on their own, with only essentially cosmetic elements of the Star Wars universe? I guess we'll find out...

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2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Season 5 was pretty badly-reviewed right across the board because of the butchering of Dorne. The season did regain some lost ground with Hardhome. S6 was reasonably well-received. 7 was right in the middle: applauded for its epic scale and major set pieces, criticised for not making a damn lick of sense.

Compared to Seasons 1-4, which received a pretty universal seal of approval with multiple awards won, the latter part of the series has definitely had a more mixed reception, and not just here.

I don't think it's quite as clear cut as that. Seasons 5 & 7 definitely got lower reviews, but Season 6 was quite highly regarded. Meanwhile Season 1 had quite a few medicore-to-bad reviews, at least up until Ned's death; and season 2 was also dinged for a lot of "throat-clearing" waiting for Blackwater. I think overall seasons 3, 4, and 6 and considered the best by most reviewers.

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52 minutes ago, felice said:

The thing is, even in the more recent seasons they're still getting an awful lot from GRRM, with the characters, settings, and situations they're starting from, and at least some idea of where it's all supposed to end up. Even if you think they're still doing a good job (and it's not just book fans who have reservations), it's not much of an indication of what they're capable of as writers. They could probably do a good job of realising someone else's story, but can they come up with something decent on their own, with only essentially cosmetic elements of the Star Wars universe? I guess we'll find out...

Yes, as much as I love GOT, that in no way gurantees that their Star Wars trilogy will be good. I'm just optimistic. I was merely refuting the claim that seasons 5-7 were not as well received as seasons 1-4. 

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In some ways this makes a lot of sense, as they've shown that they can take a source material with a LOT of backstory and make it filmable, and the biggest TV hit of this decade. You can disagree with what they've done and their choices, but from a purely utilitarian what have they done, they've managed to make a fantasy story with tits and dragons into the biggest TV show on HBO ever, beating the Sopranos and being significantly bigger as far as Q factor goes. 

Putting them in to do movies based on the Star Wars storyline? That makes a lot of sense. I don't know if they can do original screenplays well, but directing and producing things? That sounds like their skillset.

I don't like it because I think they're not very good at hitting big themes and staying true to characters, but the notion that they're universally panned or hated or AGOT isn't this monster hit is ludicrous. 

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10 hours ago, Kalbear said:

In some ways this makes a lot of sense, as they've shown that they can take a source material with a LOT of backstory and make it filmable, and the biggest TV hit of this decade. You can disagree with what they've done and their choices, but from a purely utilitarian what have they done, they've managed to make a fantasy story with tits and dragons into the biggest TV show on HBO ever, beating the Sopranos and being significantly bigger as far as Q factor goes. 

Putting them in to do movies based on the Star Wars storyline? That makes a lot of sense. I don't know if they can do original screenplays well, but directing and producing things? That sounds like their skillset.

I don't like it because I think they're not very good at hitting big themes and staying true to characters, but the notion that they're universally panned or hated or AGOT isn't this monster hit is ludicrous. 

I totally agree that their success with GOT got them the gig as viewers and cultural impact of their show can't be denied. Still, I'd have thought they'd be a better option for a star wars TV show than a movie trilogy

I guess star wars did a similar thing hiring JJ Abrams for force awakens given his success with "lost" (which I guess GOT took over from as THE show) but he did have a few films under his belt at that point including science fiction films.

I guess giving them the trilogy also puts a dent in the duo replicating their success with a new show for a rival channel too.

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Do we know D&D are going to work on a trilogy? I thought the announcement said a "series of Star Wars films". IMO, depending on what they come up with for a story, it could still become a TV series (for streaming) if Disney wants to give them the cash. 

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My main complaint with this is that there are a long list of other creative people who would be far, far more interesting if put on Star Wars. Patty Jenkins. Ryan Coogler. Ava DuVernay. Taiki Waititi, for that matter. I can't think about what Dan and David would bring to the franchise without thinking of how much more any of those people would bring. 

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Eh.... this does not excite me. I also stopped watching GOT after season 4 and feel no urge to revisit it. I guess this does make sense that since D&D made a very popular fantasy TV show that got people talking, they'd get more big-name work. But I also wonder, like Mormont, who else could do a better job. I understand that Disney and whoever's in charge want a guaranteed hit, but how much power does the Star Wars name alone grab? I mean, it's Star Wars, the 500lb gorilla of pop culture. Who here would be genuinely interested in an SW series even with complete unknowns heading it up? (honest question- what would you think of the announcement without the showrunners' names included? Or would it be completely unsurprising and the meat of the announcement relies entirely on D&D+ Star Wars = social media kerfuffle?)

Also, for no reason whatsoever, I now want to see a Dungeons and Dragons/Star Wars mashup series. Didn't that kind of exist in RPG form? Starjammers or something? Or, please, just make a Shadowrun TV show. 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, mormont said:

My main complaint with this is that there are a long list of other creative people who would be far, far more interesting if put on Star Wars. Patty Jenkins. Ryan Coogler. Ava DuVernay. Taiki Waititi, for that matter. I can't think about what Dan and David would bring to the franchise without thinking of how much more any of those people would bring. 

I seem to be one of the few who feel Jenkins' work on Wonder Woman was basically competent and nothing to write home about. Even so, sure, better her than D&D...


Brad Bird and Kathryn Bigelow are the two people I'd be interested in seeing tackling Star Wars. 

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Who here would be genuinely interested in an SW series even with complete unknowns heading it up?

After the Solo film and the last in the trilogy, my intentions are to not watch another Star Wars movie unless its director is someone I consider worth watching doing an SW film. Denis Villeneuve, Nicholas van Refn, Brad Bird, Kathryn Bigelow, Wong Kar-Wai, Christopher Nolan, Ryan Coogler, Joe Wright, etc... I'd be willing to consider it. Complete unknowns, or people whose work I don't care for? Nope. 

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8 minutes ago, Ran said:

After the Solo film and the last in the trilogy, my intentions are to not watch another Star Wars movie unless its director is someone I consider worth watching doing an SW film. Denis Villeneuve, Nicholas van Refn, Brad Bird, Kathryn Bigelow, Wong Kar-Wai, Christopher Nolan, Ryan Coogler, Joe Wright, etc... I'd be willing to consider it. Complete unknowns, or people whose work I don't care for? Nope. 

This is pretty much where I’m at as well. The Solo movie doesn’t look like it’ll be as bad as tLJ was, but the plot (or lack thereof) doesn’t motivate me to want to see it. I’d love to see Nolan direct a Star Wars movie, he’s fantastic.

Ive heard some people mention the Old Republic, which I don’t know anything about. Is that with Revan? What are their stories?

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2 hours ago, Ghjhero said:

Ive heard some people mention the Old Republic, which I don’t know anything about. Is that with Revan? What are their stories?

Yes, that’s Revan.  If done right, the big reveal at the end would be mind blowing for anyone who didn’t know the story.  But I don’t know how you would keep that secret.

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