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Howdyphillip

Full frontal Star Wars - D&D Strike Back

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6 minutes ago, red snow said:

If the intent is to make a trilogy that would certainly help. Then again, I don't know how many movie trilogies are ever planned out from start to finish unless they are adapting a book.

But again, that's kind of why Star wars doesn't have the same franchise appeal (so far) as Marvel. Marvel pretty quickly got everyone into the idea that each film was part of a bigger story (even if this wasn't concretely plotted). Thanos has been kicking around for a long time now as have the infinity gems.

The next star wars film is Han Solo. We know that's not tying into episode IX. And, like you said, the current trilogy feels like those involved go out of their way to point out they have no idea what the next film will be about. It doesn't really create anticipation.

On the other hand, for me this is a plus. I have never liked the "every movie is part of some twenty year plotline involving a lame villain who sits on a chair and his search for some rocks" aspect of the Marvel movie universe. I don't feel anticipation for the next chapter of the Thanos Cycle; I enjoy the movies that have a more contained storyline and world, like Guardians of the Galaxy and Thor 3. I don't want every Star Wars movie to be part of some overarching insanely long storyline. Coherence in individual trilogies would of course be nice. But if anything, I'd like the individual movies to get away from the characters and storylines we already know. I don't particularly care how exactly the rebel alliance got the death star plans...

 

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4 hours ago, Lord Sidious said:

Is it wrong that my favourite work of his is still Angel, I might do a rewatch this year.

Nope, Angel is easily the best show Whedon worked on and created. Also the one he had the least involvement on.

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4 hours ago, Werthead said:

Nope, Angel is easily the best show Whedon worked on and created. Also the one he had the least involvement on.

I always felt David Fury and Ben Edlund were as big an element of Angel's success (I think Fury and possibly Edlund worked on Firefly too?). Edlund's had some great runs on supernatural and his "Tick" is showing he can make his quirky style work over a whole season. Was just wondering what David Fury is up to now and turns out he's co-showrunner of "the tick" as well. Explains why I'm digging that show - particulalry the second half.

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4 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

On the other hand, for me this is a plus. I have never liked the "every movie is part of some twenty year plotline involving a lame villain who sits on a chair and his search for some rocks" aspect of the Marvel movie universe. I don't feel anticipation for the next chapter of the Thanos Cycle; I enjoy the movies that have a more contained storyline and world, like Guardians of the Galaxy and Thor 3. I don't want every Star Wars movie to be part of some overarching insanely long storyline. Coherence in individual trilogies would of course be nice. But if anything, I'd like the individual movies to get away from the characters and storylines we already know. I don't particularly care how exactly the rebel alliance got the death star plans...

 

It's a double edged sword and is arguably what comics have used for a long time and after a certain point the franchise becomes inaccessible and readers get event fatigue. Marvel comics have been terrible for a while with their incessant "events" and interconnected stories. It's a shame as there are good comics in there but they are lucky not to be dragged into an event  or restarted with a new creative team every 6-12 months. But it does keep the hardcore fans happy. The films just have to tread the line very carefully never to hit a point where viewers start thinking "I can't be bothered watching this one - I may as well quit the whole franchise.

With Black Panther I'd say Marvel isn't going to make that mistake just yet. In fact they've been really canny by insulating Black Panther as a film but including Wakanda and most the characters in the "super crossover". If "infinity wars" doesn't make more than Black Panther (despite having it feature strongly) that's useful info in terms of there were probably a lot of new viewers joining the MCU for Black Panther but have no interest in a mega cross-over. I suspect we'll get a final trailer that makes a much bigger deal of the "Black Panther" connection now the film has finished to try and coax new viewers to give Avengers a try. His own film has definitely catapulted "Black Panther" as a character who can sell films much like RDJR's Iron Man has for the last decade.

I'm not saying the MCU way is better and I don't feel Star Wars would benefit from the multi-film, then a crossover approach (with Star wars as it currently is). But if they want to continue generating excitement long term it's certainly an approach they could look into. It's still early days for the "until the end of eternity" Disney era of star wars and I imagine all of the films so far have easily outstripped the success of the phase I films (with the exception of Avengers). So they don't need to worry yet and besides the Solo film, I've been pretty excited for all their films so far. I'm sure the same will probably end up true of ep IX - although Rian Johnson (perhaps wisely?) didn't leave as many things for us to speculate over as TFA did.

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On 25/02/2018 at 5:09 PM, Werthead said:

Nope, Angel is easily the best show Whedon worked on and created. Also the one he had the least involvement on.

 

On 25/02/2018 at 9:33 PM, red snow said:

I always felt David Fury and Ben Edlund were as big an element of Angel's success (I think Fury and possibly Edlund worked on Firefly too?). Edlund's had some great runs on supernatural and his "Tick" is showing he can make his quirky style work over a whole season. Was just wondering what David Fury is up to now and turns out he's co-showrunner of "the tick" as well. Explains why I'm digging that show - particulalry the second half.

I enjoyed Firefly a lot too, I don’t know why but I really enjoyed Angel far, far more than it’s parent show, which to be honest, I didn’t really like most of the characters on.

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34 minutes ago, Lord Sidious said:

I enjoyed Firefly a lot too, I don’t know why but I really enjoyed Angel far, far more than it’s parent show, which to be honest, I didn’t really like most of the characters on.

I see Angel and Deep Space Nine in a similar vein: they both benefited a lot from the lessons learned on their respective parent shows. So their parent shows had rough first seasons and other dodgy patches the spin-offs had learned to avoid. It's one of the benefits of a spin-off (Frasier, arguably, also hit the ground running a lot more quickly than Cheers ever did, and Veep avoided a lot of the problems of the first season of The Thick of It).

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19 hours ago, Werthead said:

I see Angel and Deep Space Nine in a similar vein: they both benefited a lot from the lessons learned on their respective parent shows. So their parent shows had rough first seasons and other dodgy patches the spin-offs had learned to avoid. It's one of the benefits of a spin-off (Frasier, arguably, also hit the ground running a lot more quickly than Cheers ever did, and Veep avoided a lot of the problems of the first season of The Thick of It).

Yeah I get your point exactly, it also felt like Angel was slightly more adult themed compared to its parent show, ok maybe not next to something like True Blood, but it definately dealt with more adult issues and themes than its parent show did.

I’m semi familiar with The Thick of It and Frasier  but not Cheers (That was an 80s show wasn’t it?, a bit before my time)

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3 hours ago, Lord Sidious said:

Yeah I get your point exactly, it also felt like Angel was slightly more adult themed compared to its parent show, ok maybe not next to something like True Blood, but it definately dealt with more adult issues and themes than its parent show did.

 

I think that's a big part of it. While it still had whedon's approach in the DNA of the show. Angel was about adults dealing with monsters. Buffy was initially about teenagers dealing with monsters. So the approach had to be a little different.

So in an attempt to keep on topic. If spin-off shows are sometimes stronger because the creators have learned from their mistakes then there's potential for D&D hitting the ground running with star wars after what they've learned with GOT? I guess there's a strong chance that the last season will have a similar run time to a star wars trilogy. With the budget and scope for the final season of GOT it could prove an excellent testing ground for making a film series. I just hope they actually plan out a trilogy - something that's probably more of an issue from the Star Wars higher ups than the writer/directors.

 

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On 27/02/2018 at 9:08 PM, red snow said:

I think that's a big part of it. While it still had whedon's approach in the DNA of the show. Angel was about adults dealing with monsters. Buffy was initially about teenagers dealing with monsters. So the approach had to be a little different.

So in an attempt to keep on topic. If spin-off shows are sometimes stronger because the creators have learned from their mistakes then there's potential for D&D hitting the ground running with star wars after what they've learned with GOT? I guess there's a strong chance that the last season will have a similar run time to a star wars trilogy. With the budget and scope for the final season of GOT it could prove an excellent testing ground for making a film series. I just hope they actually plan out a trilogy - something that's probably more of an issue from the Star Wars higher ups than the writer/directors.

 

Fully agree with your point.

Also in an effort to come back on topic I’m not particularly against D&D having a crack at a SW project, in fact I’m quite excited by the concept of a more adult themed SW film, even more so if they set it in a completely different era to the main films, ok I’m hoping for an Old Republic era film, pre rule of two and including HK-47-people think R2 and BB-8 are awesome, which they are but they arnt a patch on HK :D.

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17 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

pffft CH10P3R would kick HK's ass.

We violently disagree for the first time that I can recall. Meatbag. ;)

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17 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

pffft CH10P3R would kick HK's ass.

Would be quite a good conclusion to the Star Wars franchise:

HK47 stumbles through a wormhole to arrive in media res in Star Wars IX. He and Chopper do battle - because there can only be one bad-ass king of the droids. Soldiers of the First Order and New Republic embrace and forgive each other before they are disintegrated in the cosmic wave of destruction that issues forth. Ghost Yoda snarks at Ghost Luke for one last time. Kylo Ren considers the multiple ways in which he's wasted his life. Chewbacca asks for a cigarette in English Basic, and dies laughing at the expression on Rey's face. The galaxy ends, but the ripples from the battle echo further, crossing dimensions, and cinema screens melt from Honolulu to Moscow to Buenos Aires. 

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On 01/03/2018 at 11:06 AM, Lord Sidious said:

Fully agree with your point.

Also in an effort to come back on topic I’m not particularly against D&D having a crack at a SW project, in fact I’m quite excited by the concept of a more adult themed SW film, even more so if they set it in a completely different era to the main films, ok I’m hoping for an Old Republic era film, pre rule of two and including HK-47-people think R2 and BB-8 are awesome, which they are but they arnt a patch on HK :D.

Will it be adult themed though? I really don't see Disney going that route for a long time with the star wars franchise. Beyond the sex and violence I think star wars already has the heroes falling from grace and political backstabbing covered.

I see D&Ds involvement as being something like Sam Raimi doing spider-man or Jackson doing LOTR. They take their craft to the project rather than the adult themes of their earlier work. I'd also be more than happy if this star wars project fares as well as the two examples just given

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19 hours ago, red snow said:

Will it be adult themed though? I really don't see Disney going that route for a long time with the star wars franchise. Beyond the sex and violence I think star wars already has the heroes falling from grace and political backstabbing covered.

I see D&Ds involvement as being something like Sam Raimi doing spider-man or Jackson doing LOTR. They take their craft to the project rather than the adult themes of their earlier work. I'd also be more than happy if this star wars project fares as well as the two examples just given

I don’t know, there’s clearly a market for a more grown up SW film, perhaps they’d not go 18(R rated) butnsomething with more a more adult theme than the main films would be good.

 

I’ve not actually seen Ramis Spider-Man, all I can think of when I read his name is Evil Dead :D.

Obviously I’ve seen Jackson’s LOTR films and for the most part really enjoyed them.

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On 08/03/2018 at 6:01 PM, Lord Sidious said:

I don’t know, there’s clearly a market for a more grown up SW film, perhaps they’d not go 18(R rated) butnsomething with more a more adult theme than the main films would be good.

 

I’ve not actually seen Ramis Spider-Man, all I can think of when I read his name is Evil Dead :D.

Obviously I’ve seen Jackson’s LOTR films and for the most part really enjoyed them.

I think with Star wars it's more a removal of childish elements than addition of more adult themes in order to make it more "grown up". The films have featured patricide, borderline accidental incest, good guys turning bad and vice versa, death and betrayal. Rogue One was pretty low on the childish elements and for now is as "mature" as I'd like my star wars. But I'm in agreement that riding around on CGI animals on racetracks or when fighting androids on motorbikes and bad jokes more suited to Guardians of the Galaxy or Thor Ragnarok is something that could be removed in a more mature star wars film.

I think there's always a danger in viewers wanting a franchise to grow up with them (I'm guilty of it) but it can be hard for the franchise to go back. I'm glad Dark Knight happened but it sort of took Batman away from kids in terms of the comics as it ratcheted up the age that the stories were targeted towards. Deadpool and Logan work as it fits with the characters and, very importantly are isolated from the MCU. I'm still curious to see whether Disney will have these characters mix with their films - they've insulated the netflix shows pretty effectively. A star wars film in that vein would need to be deliberately separate from main franchise. Maybe they could do this with the TV show as tv-film seems to be an effective barrier in this sense. Although with Favreau onboard I suspect it'll be very wide audience friendly.

Raimi's spider-man 2 has a great Evil Dead homage in the doc ock tentacle cam. That and Bruce Campbell in the trilogy.

 

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