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Astromech

Counterpart Starz Series (SPOILERS)

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10 hours ago, red snow said:

 

I just watched s1 episide 7. Really enjoyed the reveal of who the mole was but I'm still having a hard time swallowing how agents cross over, never come back and they don't track them down. Surely they have photos and ID? Surely they'd notice who the new deputy director's wife was when putting him through what I'd hope was a thorough vetting service?

Not enough to cancel the show over but it irks me.

This bothered me slightly last season as well. Security seemed extremely weak as if a porous crossing was intentional.

 

Damn, things are really progressing this season. But it all seems a bit too easy for Mira.

The Emilys conversation was great and reminds the viewer that in spite of all the broad political machinations, subterfuge, bureaucracy and large-scale threats, this show is very human and personal at its core. Their conflict over the Anna visitation and Howard Silk was great.

And ouch when Peter heard Clare name her "friend". Gulp!

My favorite current series and only one episode remains. You're increasing my monthly fee to $12.99 in March, Netflix. You better make amends by picking up this series!!!!!!!!!

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2 hours ago, karaddin said:

There is an answer to how things/people could have been smuggled from one side to the other in the most recent episode of season 2 and it doesn't feel like a retcon. I'm not saying its definitely how she crossed over, I can't remember if we see her crossing in s1 or just things after the crossing, but its a way to smuggle which opens up the possibility its not the only one. They also don't necessarily have much intel on the others of people, intel gathering of some kind comes up in s2 as well. I'm not saying everything will be answered to your satisfaction, but for me there are enough explanations that I don't feel like there are glaring holes.

They showed her crossing over, going through security and having her photos taken. Pope arranged it all. At the moment I'm just going on the premise pope has people who can make the ID evidence disappear. That or the visa/crossing disappears completely so that no one knows anyone is missing.

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Finished season 1. A really strong debut season. Some parts got a little silly later on particularly harry lloyd and his constant eye popping confused routine. I'm still not convinced how well it holds together with the infiltration etc. It seemed incredibly complicated to get 3 people to shoot an office up. In reality most/all of those three terrorists could have just took the lives of those doppelgangers without learning so much about them beforehand. The mind boggles at how they got the three primes into those positions to then allow the counterparts to infiltrate. I guess that's the difficult part.

I did enjoy pope's over confidence backfiring though. Howard/silk really hold it all together though especially as both of them start drifting towards the other in personslity and behaviour.

It was a shame they killed off the prime security chief though. His tale of how he destroyed his other half was brutal and made me want to see more of what this ruthless individual was capable of

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8 hours ago, red snow said:

Finished season 1. A really strong debut season. Some parts got a little silly later on particularly harry lloyd and his constant eye popping confused routine. I'm still not convinced how well it holds together with the infiltration etc. It seemed incredibly complicated to get 3 people to shoot an office up. In reality most/all of those three terrorists could have just took the lives of those doppelgangers without learning so much about them beforehand. The mind boggles at how they got the three primes into those positions to then allow the counterparts to infiltrate. I guess that's the difficult part.

I did enjoy pope's over confidence backfiring though. Howard/silk really hold it all together though especially as both of them start drifting towards the other in personslity and behaviour.

It was a shame they killed off the prime security chief though. His tale of how he destroyed his other half was brutal and made me want to see more of what this ruthless individual was capable of

The point is to seamlessly infiltrate and not cause any suspicion. Knowing everything about their counterpart is necessary to ensure they successfully infiltrate. I had more of an issue with them being able to cross relatively easily. Security was poor. I'm going with it being poor by design.

Ulrich Thomsen is great and will always be Kai Proctor to me. But yes, I felt they could have done much more with Aldrich.

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9 hours ago, Astromech said:

The point is to seamlessly infiltrate and not cause any suspicion. Knowing everything about their counterpart is necessary to ensure they successfully infiltrate. I had more of an issue with them being able to cross relatively easily. Security was poor. I'm going with it being poor by design.

Ulrich Thomsen is great and will always be Kai Proctor to me. But yes, I felt they could have done much more with Aldrich.

I know that's the point but brainwashing a child for 15+ years to mimic someone for the 10 minutes to get into an office is extreme attention to detail. Then again I tend to look at it as these people are extremists so they probably would go that far.

He was great as Kai Proctor (Banshee is one of those shows that seems better in hindsight than it was while on air). I didn't realise the actor is also quite busy as a director too.

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Geez what a rough place to end it if it doesnt get picked up

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6 hours ago, karaddin said:

Geez what a rough place to end it if it doesnt get picked up

I dunno, it seemed like a pretty decent ending to me. Not a happy ending, but not the worst place to end

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11 hours ago, akh said:

I dunno, it seemed like a pretty decent ending to me. Not a happy ending, but not the worst place to end

Cut out the last minute and I think it was still pretty ambiguous but ok. What we got is a "good" end from being an end for the narrative we see, but tonally dark. That's what I meant.

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On 2/19/2019 at 5:52 AM, karaddin said:

Cut out the last minute and I think it was still pretty ambiguous but ok. What we got is a "good" end from being an end for the narrative we see, but tonally dark. That's what I meant.

Ah alright, fair enough. I don't mind dark. I think it works well enough for an ending but I could just have low expectations due to a couple of really bad ones in the past combined with the fact that a few of my favorites over the years have been killed off before any resolution whatsoever.

I'm also having a hard time seeing how they would progress the story from here so it would feel natural. I feel like the creators knew this is where they had to end it. The second season picked up the pace of the story quite fast from the second third of the season.

Edited by akh

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I thought it was pretty clear the doors weren't going to stay closed since Prime!Emily knew that order had come from Mira and had the cases. I figure the exploration of that + the flu was the plan for season2, but it definitely seems they were aware it might be the end.

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It felt a bit rushed to be honest. Not surprising since the writers probably wanted a conclusion while providing just enough wiggle room in case it gets picked up. This series easily could have been several seasons.  The pacing was better last season with the gradual reveals and uncovering of the story and world. I felt this season was stronger in the beginning and peaked with the origin episode, which was the best episode of the season. Still the last few episodes did a commendable job of concluding the series.

I still feel everything was a bit too easy for Mira, only to be too easily outwitted when she was portrayed as some sort of mastermind up until that point. A bit out of character for her after everything we were shown of her up to the final episode. I did, however, appreciate Emily Silk using the same trap on her.

Definitely a top ten series for me even though it may end with these two seasons. S1 was incredible and s2 did a fine, if rushed job concluding the story. Hopefully it gets picked up.

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On 2/18/2019 at 11:25 AM, akh said:

I dunno, it seemed like a pretty decent ending to me. Not a happy ending, but not the worst place to end

Agreed... as heart broken as I am about the show's demise, I thought it tied up what it needed to, and left one appropriately ominous thread hanging...

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Just watched episode 6 and it came at the right time as I have to admit I was getting a bit tired with season 2. I think I prefer the Silks interacting rather than being stuck either side and Quayle is very annoying/pathetic (knowing that he's meant to be portrayed this way helps but doesn't completely stop my frustration).

But the origin episode was great and arguably should have come a bit sooner but I can see why it had to be after the Mira and James Cromwell reveal (but maybe said reveal could have come earlier. The idea that management may have been running things as an experiment all along is pretty cool. I did like the cassette tape divergent point even if it was ridiculously egotistical of the pair to assume they alone were the cause of the divergence. Even they should have realised that from the second the two of them met their worlds would diverge and even if they had died in the accident/split then the utterly random events would have still continued to cause a divergence. This episode and others have established that molecular and physical "random" events do not continue on the same path in both worlds so even if they'd never known the other world existed it would be different. But obviously the death of his son via their meeting and experimentation had a huge effect due to his involvement in the experiment.

It also works as a great backstory for why Mira is so hellbent and destroying the communication between worlds. I noticed she doesn't want to destroy one she just wants to stop either one destroying the other which is less harsh than I originally thought.

I'm not really enjoying Emily's amnesia because I'm not usually a fan of the trope but I'm willing to give it a pass because a) they are showing that people with such amnesia can also lose the ability to read and write and b) there's been moments where I've wondered whether she's actually Emily "prime" and that the real prime is the one in the other world. Although option B is possibly a result of watching this show late at night when i'm tired! The more I think about it the more "errors" she has been describing is possibly more to do with her knowing more about what's happening than the others around her.

Episode 6 has definitely galvanised my interest in the remaining episodes though.

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4 hours ago, red snow said:

Just watched episode 6 and it came at the right time as I have to admit I was getting a bit tired with season 2. I think I prefer the Silks interacting rather than being stuck either side and Quayle is very annoying/pathetic (knowing that he's meant to be portrayed this way helps but doesn't completely stop my frustration).

But the origin episode was great and arguably should have come a bit sooner but I can see why it had to be after the Mira and James Cromwell reveal (but maybe said reveal could have come earlier. The idea that management may have been running things as an experiment all along is pretty cool. I did like the cassette tape divergent point even if it was ridiculously egotistical of the pair to assume they alone were the cause of the divergence. Even they should have realised that from the second the two of them met their worlds would diverge and even if they had died in the accident/split then the utterly random events would have still continued to cause a divergence. This episode and others have established that molecular and physical "random" events do not continue on the same path in both worlds so even if they'd never known the other world existed it would be different. But obviously the death of his son via their meeting and experimentation had a huge effect due to his involvement in the experiment.

It also works as a great backstory for why Mira is so hellbent and destroying the communication between worlds. I noticed she doesn't want to destroy one she just wants to stop either one destroying the other which is less harsh than I originally thought.

I'm not really enjoying Emily's amnesia because I'm not usually a fan of the trope but I'm willing to give it a pass because a) they are showing that people with such amnesia can also lose the ability to read and write and b) there's been moments where I've wondered whether she's actually Emily "prime" and that the real prime is the one in the other world. Although option B is possibly a result of watching this show late at night when i'm tired! The more I think about it the more "errors" she has been describing is possibly more to do with her knowing more about what's happening than the others around her.

Episode 6 has definitely galvanised my interest in the remaining episodes though.

I think it works quite well pointing out their hubris and contrasting that the apparent regret they have in the present. Knocked down a few pegs so to speak.

I thought it was interesting since she was living lies as a spy. I was hoping for a blur or confusion between the remembrance of the lies or the truth.

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3 hours ago, Astromech said:

I think it works quite well pointing out their hubris and contrasting that the apparent regret they have in the present. Knocked down a few pegs so to speak.

I thought it was interesting since she was living lies as a spy. I was hoping for a blur or confusion between the remembrance of the lies or the truth.

good point about having amnesia when you lead a double life is probably an additional problem on top of standard amnesia.

Hubris. That's definitely the word to describe the young Yanek. I guess "they/he" did cause the split in the sense he wasn't keeping an eye on the equipment.

I was also wondering why the other side didn't respond in retaliation for the virus? Given the assumption one side would consider then both would? Although it was Yanek who had the idea and he had clearly diverged from himself by that point . Anyhow there were freezer boxes in episode 7 so I suspect the counterattack is still in play.

It was also very weird how Yanek offered to share his family with the grieving Yanek. I guess it was compassion/empathy but a bit of a minefield as was grieving Yanek sneaking over to hang out with the family anyhow.

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5 hours ago, red snow said:

good point about having amnesia when you lead a double life is probably an additional problem on top of standard amnesia.

Hubris. That's definitely the word to describe the young Yanek. I guess "they/he" did cause the split in the sense he wasn't keeping an eye on the equipment.

I was also wondering why the other side didn't respond in retaliation for the virus? Given the assumption one side would consider then both would? Although it was Yanek who had the idea and he had clearly diverged from himself by that point . Anyhow there were freezer boxes in episode 7 so I suspect the counterattack is still in play.

It was also very weird how Yanek offered to share his family with the grieving Yanek. I guess it was compassion/empathy but a bit of a minefield as was grieving Yanek sneaking over to hang out with the family anyhow.

That was questionable considering human nature. I assumed management wanted to keep everything secret at that point so it didn't escalate to retaliation and a possible mutually assured destruction. 

Not quite as weird and creepy as the Claude Lamberts relationship with one another.

Grrr, still disappointed this was canceled. There were so many paths this show could've explored.

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7 hours ago, Astromech said:

That was questionable considering human nature. I assumed management wanted to keep everything secret at that point so it didn't escalate to retaliation and a possible mutually assured destruction. 

Not quite as weird and creepy as the Claude Lamberts relationship with one another.

Grrr, still disappointed this was canceled. There were so many paths this show could've explored.

Lambert was very strange. I was surprised how they dispatched of the character(s) so quickly as there seemed to be a lot to explore with that dynamic. I think we had an episode where we knew the two of them appeared to live the same life (i only realised when two of them shared the screen) and within two episodes they were both dead. 

I guess there was the older woman from series one who lived with her other and one husband too. I now wonder whether that set up was a bit like yanek's offer eg one of them lost their husband so they decided to share him.

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There really was a lot this series could've explored with more episodes. Too much left untouched or simply rushed. Keeping my fingers crossed for this series being picked up for future seasons.

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Finished the show and i felt it worked ok if we never get another season (which seems likely despite efforts to find a new host broadcaster - i never got the sense of an upswell of support like there was for expanse and Lucifer). There were still some strong monents usually in flashback and the acting was top notch but something seemed to be missing for me in the second season. Possibly the interaction and direct comparison of howard/silk? I think I'd have also liked more on how both sides could help/exploit each other through trade eg the bit in the finale where ourside made it look like a great concession to trade a 1TB flashdrive was fun. Although i can see how that maybe wouldn't make for a thrilling tv show. Although it still baffled me how with all the exchange in personnel between sides how no one simply stole this tech or at least researched the existence for negotiation. In season 1 this seemed understandable with everyone apparently under tight surveillance and 30 year old tech being used in the exchange building. By season 2 though it was apparent that agents were constantly walking around in the real world. My own logic is that the majority were fanatics too blinded by revenge to realise they could truly help their side by stealing our tech. Sending a reverse engineer over would have been far more beneficial than sending a terrorist with the flu.

Still glad the show was made though and it's nice that we weren't left completely in the lurch with the main cast reaching some sort of resolution. 

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