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Tywin et al.

US Politics: Borrow And Spend Conservatism Marches On

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3 hours ago, Ormond said:

Whenever I see discussions of this issue I wonder just how carefully pollsters are asking their questions about education and how they are dividing up the electorate.

The standard options are:

  • Postgraduate 
  • Bachelor's
  • Some college
  • High School graduate
  • Less than high school

The last two are combined to operationalize "low educated" voters.  The wording of the item is going to change by firm, but ANES' is:  "What is the highest level of school you have completed or highest degree you have received?"  Of course, theirs is open-ended since they have time to code the responses into the above categories, but it's usually going to be at least one of those two (highest level of school or highest degree).

3 hours ago, Ormond said:

I wish political scientists would spend more time researching what the difference is between these "intermediate educated" persons vs. those with only high school diplomas or less on the one hand and those with bachelor's degrees or higher on the other. 

We have, "some college" are very similar to "Bachelor's" in demographics and political knowledge.  Same goes for high school graduate or less, which some surveys will combine as a "high school or less" option.  Seldom is there any explanatory power to be gained by keeping these groups separate.

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8 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And nothing will stop it either. It’s why people like NASCAR crashes and slow moving train wrecks. We feed into it. What exacerbates it is these people live for it. Otherwise they wouldn’t have made their names as reality TV stars (and that’s what Trump is. We need to stop calling him a business man. He hasn’t been that since the early 90’s when his company collapsed.).

One thing I noticed from the winter Olympics when there was a bad crash in the women's luge and a bad fall in the men's snowboarding halfpipe, both leading to hsopitalisation is that, whereas in the past there would have been endless slow motion replays of the incidents while the injured person was being dealt with (i.,e. to fill in the "dead air" while the event is put on hold for a bit), there was no turning these incidents into audience spectacle. There was no replay of the halfpipe fall, and there was one replay of the luge crash, mostly to see what the nature of the injury might be. So I guess some media organisations are trying to steer away form turning tragedy into entertainment.

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6 hours ago, Fez said:

Demotivating the other side is a key job of political parties, so yes, this is on Democrats. They could've focused on the disparity between what many Republican voters actually want (health care benefits for themselves) and what Republican leaders are trying to do; instead of leaning in on the issues where Republicans are more united (brown people are bad).

LMAO won't matter since Republicans are fucking racist and just bigots and vote party over everything and have no issue fucking themselves if it means people of color, the lgbt community, women and the disabled get fucked worse.

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1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

The standard options are:

  • Postgraduate 
  • Bachelor's
  • Some college
  • High School graduate
  • Less than high school

The last two are combined to operationalize "low educated" voters.  The wording of the item is going to change by firm, but ANES' is:  "What is the highest level of school you have completed or highest degree you have received?"  Of course, theirs is open-ended since they have time to code the responses into the above categories, but it's usually going to be at least one of those two (highest level of school or highest degree).

We have, "some college" are very similar to "Bachelor's" in demographics and political knowledge.  Same goes for high school graduate or less, which some surveys will combine as a "high school or less" option.  Seldom is there any explanatory power to be gained by keeping these groups separate.

That's interesting to know. My strong impression, though, is that when political journalists talk about this data it's always as if the "college educated" only includes those with bachelor's degrees and above. It everyone with even "some college" is actually included in that, this needs to be made more clear by the pollsters to the media. The combined total of those with associates' degrees and those with "some college" is 26.6% of everyone over age 24, so this is a huge group within society. 

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4 hours ago, Ormond said:

Whenever I see discussions of this issue I wonder just how carefully pollsters are asking their questions about education and how they are dividing up the electorate.

Most of the discussions I see of this assume that "college voters" are those who have attained a bachelor's degree or higher. But according to the latest census bureau figures, there are 22,310,000 people in the USA age 25 or older whose highest educational attainment is an associate's degree. That's over 10% of the entire population of people over age 24. If some pollsters are just asking people "do you have a college degree?" while others are careful to ask about bachelors' degrees, that could be most of the difference between 34% and 44% right there. 

By the way, there are another 35, 455,000 people over age 24 in the USA who the census bureau says have "some college" without ever getting a degree. I wish political scientists would spend more time researching what the difference is between these "intermediate educated" persons vs. those with only high school diplomas or less on the one hand and those with bachelor's degrees or higher on the other. 

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/2017/demo/education-attainment/cps-detailed-tables.html

This is kind of difficult to do, but I understand the point you're making. My question is how far do we want to take this deeper dive? Take having a four year degree for example. Do we want to differentiate between people who went to an Ivy League school and a state school? What about someone who went to a state school verses someone who went to a junk for profit online school? And what about by grades? Should someone like me who had a GPA above 3.9 be lumped in with some who was a C student (and yes, that was a humble brag :-P (all my emojis are gone. Why God, why?))? I'm just not sure how much this data adds, but I'd be open to seeing it.

Oh, one more thing to add. How do we study education by generation? A high school and college education today is not what it was 25 and 50 years ago. Furthermore, a high school education today is hot garbage. There are programs kids can take to bypass a typical education, and it's been that way for some time now. I know when I was in HS (about 12-15 years ago, yikes), failing kids could just opt out of the regular classes and take these joke courses to get the credits they needed to graduate. I looked at what some of my buddies had to do and it was barely 7th grade quality. And yet there they were, walking across the stage with me. How do we study these types of effects on voting behavior? 

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3 minutes ago, unpaid comintern said:

18th school shooting in less than 45 days this year, jesus wept

And there have only been 31 school days. That's a shooting every 1.7 days. 

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4 minutes ago, unpaid comintern said:

18th school shooting in less than 45 days this year, jesus wept

That does';t seem right, everything I;ve read says this is the 4th. Although maybe they just mean 4th with fatalities? Either way fuck humanity, Ultron as right. Nuke the earth. Bah.

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9 minutes ago, Sword of Doom said:

Mass shootings are as american as apple pie, baseball, racism, white washing and celebrating sexual predators and demonizing their victims.

 

Just now, unpaid comintern said:

18th school shooting in less than 45 days this year, jesus wept

For he knew the Libtards would attack the sacred guns he defeated the Romans with.

Violent Communion

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52 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

One thing I noticed from the winter Olympics when there was a bad crash in the women's luge and a bad fall in the men's snowboarding halfpipe, both leading to hsopitalisation is that, whereas in the past there would have been endless slow motion replays of the incidents while the injured person was being dealt with (i.,e. to fill in the "dead air" while the event is put on hold for a bit), there was no turning these incidents into audience spectacle. There was no replay of the halfpipe fall, and there was one replay of the luge crash, mostly to see what the nature of the injury might be. So I guess some media organisations are trying to steer away form turning tragedy into entertainment.

It's a good development, and you see it in sports here too (a huge hit in the NFL is normally shown once now where as in the past it would be played over and over, for example), but it gets a ton of replays from other sources. I'm not sure if the overall viewership of these types of events has fallen at all. 

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4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

That does';t seem right, everything I;ve read says this is the 4th. Although maybe they just mean 4th with fatalities? Either way fuck humanity, Ultron as right. Nuke the earth. Bah.

Here is a good summary:

Quote

These are all of the gun-related incidents at or near schools in 2018 so far. Shootings with fatalities have an asterisk:

  • *January 3: A 31-year-old man shot and killed himself in the parking lot of his former elementary school in Michigan.
  • January 4: Shots were fired at New Start High School outside Seattle. No one was hit or hurt.
  • January 5: A bullet from a pellet gun shattered the window of a Forest City, Iowa, school bus full of students while in transit. No one was injured.
  • *January 9: A 14-year-old male student killed himself in the bathroom of an elementary school in Arizona.
  • January 10: A bullet hit a building at California State University, San Bernardino. No one was injured.
  • January 10: A student at Grayson College in Texas accidentally fired a bullet during a gun training session with an instructor. No one was hurt.
  • January 15: Police in Marshall, Texas, responded to reports of gunfire just after midnight on the Wiley College campus. A stray bullet entered one of the dormitories, but no one was hit.
  • *January 20: A Winston-Salem State University football player was shot and killed during an event at Wake Forest University.
  • January 22: A 16-year-old shot and injured a female student several times at Italy High School in Texas.
  • January 22: Someone in a pickup truck fired at a group of students gathered in front of Net Charter School in New Orleans. One boy was injured.
  • *January 23: A 15-year-old student at a high school in Kentucky shot and killed two studentsand injured 17 others.
  • January 25: A 16-year-old boy fired a round of bullets outside of Murphy High School in Alabama without injuring anyone.
  • January 26: An altercation between two people led to shots being fired in the parking lot of Dearborn High School in Minnesota during a basketball game. No one was injured.
  • *January 31: A shooting ensued outside Lincoln High School in Philadelphia after a brawl stemming from a basketball game. No students were involved. One person died.
  • February 1: A 12-year-old girl critically injured one student and four others after firing a gun at Salvador B. Castro Middle School in Los Angeles. The incident was reportedly an accident.
  • *February 5: A student at Oxon Hill High School in Maryland was shot in the school's parking lot.
  • February 5: A third-grader pressed the trigger of a cop's gun at Harmony Learning Center in Minnesota. There were no injuries.
  • February 8: A 17-year-old fired a bullet at Metropolitan High School in the Bronx, New York. No one was hurt.
  • *February 14:Multiple people killed and over a dozen injured a Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida after a former student opened fire on Valentine's Day.

http://www.businessinsider.com/school-shootings-2018-1

Didn't realize the death toll was so high. Thoughts are with the families. 

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16 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Yeah, I was not expecting it to be that high with the shooter in custody.

AR-15's shoot fast.

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56 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

Everyone needs to calm down!

It was a white male.

Everything is fine.

This is a brutal reality of how this issue will unfold.

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