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29 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

That would explain Varys's motivation to bring down Aerys and then Robert. But what was Illyrio's motivation back then? 

When they met, probably in their early teens, they became friends. Probably for Varys Illyrio was his first friend. So Varys told his story and background to Illyrio.

I think that Varys and Serra were brother and sister, and that they were separated a few years before Varys met Illyrio, and were both sold into slavery, separately, to different masters. So when Varys regained his freedoom, he was looking for his sister. And Illyrio was helping him. That's may be the reason (one of reasons) why they created their network of spies. 

Varys wanted to restore old glory of Blackfyres, bring them back to Westeros, and to seize Iron Throne for his family. So eventually it became dream for both of them. Best friends (and maybe brothers-in-law) that share same goal, and help each other to get to that goal. Maybe, same as Varys, Serra Blackfyre (if she was a Blackfyre, and Varys' sister) also wanted to go to Westeros, and not as a mere refugee from Essos, but rather as Queen of 7K. Though she became ill and died, thus Illyrio promised to her, that he will accomplish her dream for her.  

So Illyrio's motivation is his friendship with Varys, and his love for Serra.

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I don't think they ever wanted to help Viserys.  They were using him for their own ends.  They knew that Westeros would be suspicious about the Dothraki. 

19 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Perhaps, but they had not taken that step yet. They might have had their eye on Margaery. A key to the fAegon plot would have been counting on the late Elia’s family in Sunspear backing her presumed son. 

That would explain Varys's motivation to bring down Aerys and then Robert. But what was Illyrio's motivation back then? 

Money, power, influence.  They wanted to also eliminate support for Dany and Viserys so that it would be easier for Aegon to garner support. 

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4 hours ago, Megorova said:

When they met, probably in their early teens, they became friends. Probably for Varys Illyrio was his first friend. So Varys told his story and background to Illyrio.

I think that Varys and Serra were brother and sister, and that they were separated a few years before Varys met Illyrio, and were both sold into slavery, separately, to different masters. So when Varys regained his freedoom, he was looking for his sister. And Illyrio was helping him. That's may be the reason (one of reasons) why they created their network of spies. 

Varys wanted to restore old glory of Blackfyres, bring them back to Westeros, and to seize Iron Throne for his family. So eventually it became dream for both of them. Best friends (and maybe brothers-in-law) that share same goal, and help each other to get to that goal. Maybe, same as Varys, Serra Blackfyre (if she was a Blackfyre, and Varys' sister) also wanted to go to Westeros, and not as a mere refugee from Essos, but rather as Queen of 7K. Though she became ill and died, thus Illyrio promised to her, that he will accomplish her dream for her.  

So Illyrio's motivation is his friendship with Varys, and his love for Serra.

Yeah, I never found that convincing enough, but that version of the Aegon Blackfyre theory--the Varys and Serra are Daemon's heirs, and Illyrio their friend and lover, respectively--does appear to be the most dominant. 

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7 hours ago, Megorova said:

When they met, probably in their early teens, they became friends. Probably for Varys Illyrio was his first friend. So Varys told his story and background to Illyrio.

I think that Varys and Serra were brother and sister, and that they were separated a few years before Varys met Illyrio, and were both sold into slavery, separately, to different masters. So when Varys regained his freedoom, he was looking for his sister. And Illyrio was helping him. That's may be the reason (one of reasons) why they created their network of spies. 

Varys wanted to restore old glory of Blackfyres, bring them back to Westeros, and to seize Iron Throne for his family. So eventually it became dream for both of them. Best friends (and maybe brothers-in-law) that share same goal, and help each other to get to that goal. Maybe, same as Varys, Serra Blackfyre (if she was a Blackfyre, and Varys' sister) also wanted to go to Westeros, and not as a mere refugee from Essos, but rather as Queen of 7K. Though she became ill and died, thus Illyrio promised to her, that he will accomplish her dream for her.  

So Illyrio's motivation is his friendship with Varys, and his love for Serra.

Well if you flip a lil of your script it would at least parallel Viserys wanting to take the throne and after his death, it becomes his sisters goal. Flip that. Serra started the goal to take it back, Varys took it up after her death. 

Not that i buy it but it would echo the current story better.

Reason i have a hard time buying it is that the only Blackfyre left near the time needed for Serra and Varys to be born is Melys Blackfyre. Who sounds like he would have eaten his kids as he did his brother. Slain by Barristan. Though its never mentioned that he had a sister so i have a hard time buying a female Blackfyre lingering about out of no wheres when we havn't even been given clues that it could be the case. Just wishful thinking.

Mean while, there are a couple Targs who went East and also ive brought up before that Duncan and Jenny who died in the fires of Summerhal in 259 hooked up in 239. That's 20 years of being together and likely had children. Those children would be you/old enough to be Varys and Serra. And as we know little surrounding Summerhal other than Duncan saved most the people. It's possible that some one else got their kids out and sold them into slavery. 

I bring up Summerhal as Rhaegar was also born there. And who does Varys claim to protect? Rhaegars son. Varys even came to Westeros the year before Rhaegars unlikely marriage to Elia. Jenny and Duncan had the woods witch and were definitely about prophecy. This same woods witch told Jaehaerys to wed his children cause TPTWP would be born from their line. The persons born of their line is Rhaegar and Viserys and possibly Daenerys. 

We know Varys opposes Daenerys at every turn and meant to have her poisoned to get Kahl Drogo to invade Westeros. Jorah realizes what's about to happen when he's given a pardon so he stops the poisoning and starts warning against Illyrio with out tipping that he got a pardon for being a spy. 

Varys mean while tells Eddard of Rhaenys dying to which Eddard notes how genuinely sad Varys seems. Then fails to mention Aegon dying. 

Then tells a dying Kevan that he saved Aegon. Never once faltering from his narrative. Never. So i dont think Aegon is a Blackfyre, and neither is Varys. Its a decoy from the real issue. The Starks taking over House Targaryen through Rhaenyra. This is the House Varys serves. 

Daenerys wasn't born to Rhaella, Aerys or Rhaegar. Varys knows this and opposes her. Daenerys is the child of Eddard Stark and Ashara Dayne who brought dragons back into the world and bound them to a new blood line, hers. Through blood magic and the sacrifice of Rhaego, Drogo, and Viserys. I think any one could have woke the dragons from the stones had they figured out the steps to bind them to their blood again. Something i think Valyrians did, then kept through inbreeding. But as GRRM has said, Daenerys is maybe 1/20 as Targaryen as Aegon I. So no matter who you think her parents are. Her blood didn't matter, not for binding and waking dragons. 

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5 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Well if you flip a lil of your script it would at least parallel Viserys wanting to take the throne and after his death, it becomes his sisters goal. Flip that. Serra started the goal to take it back, Varys took it up after her death. 

Not that i buy it but it would echo the current story better.

Reason i have a hard time buying it is that the only Blackfyre left near the time needed for Serra and Varys to be born is Melys Blackfyre. Who sounds like he would have eaten his kids as he did his brother. Slain by Barristan. Though its never mentioned that he had a sister so i have a hard time buying a female Blackfyre lingering about out of no wheres when we havn't even been given clues that it could be the case. Just wishful thinking.

Mean while, there are a couple Targs who went East and also ive brought up before that Duncan and Jenny who died in the fires of Summerhal in 259 hooked up in 239. That's 20 years of being together and likely had children. Those children would be you/old enough to be Varys and Serra. And as we know little surrounding Summerhal other than Duncan saved most the people. It's possible that some one else got their kids out and sold them into slavery. 

I bring up Summerhal as Rhaegar was also born there. And who does Varys claim to protect? Rhaegars son. Varys even came to Westeros the year before Rhaegars unlikely marriage to Elia. Jenny and Duncan had the woods witch and were definitely about prophecy. This same woods witch told Jaehaerys to wed his children cause TPTWP would be born from their line. The persons born of their line is Rhaegar and Viserys and possibly Daenerys. 

We know Varys opposes Daenerys at every turn and meant to have her poisoned to get Kahl Drogo to invade Westeros. Jorah realizes what's about to happen when he's given a pardon so he stops the poisoning and starts warning against Illyrio with out tipping that he got a pardon for being a spy. 

Varys mean while tells Eddard of Rhaenys dying to which Eddard notes how genuinely sad Varys seems. Then fails to mention Aegon dying. 

Then tells a dying Kevan that he saved Aegon. Never once faltering from his narrative. Never. So i dont think Aegon is a Blackfyre, and neither is Varys. Its a decoy from the real issue. The Starks taking over House Targaryen through Rhaenyra. This is the House Varys serves. 

Daenerys wasn't born to Rhaella, Aerys or Rhaegar. Varys knows this and opposes her. Daenerys is the child of Eddard Stark and Ashara Dayne who brought dragons back into the world and bound them to a new blood line, hers. Through blood magic and the sacrifice of Rhaego, Drogo, and Viserys. I think any one could have woke the dragons from the stones had they figured out the steps to bind them to their blood again. Something i think Valyrians did, then kept through inbreeding. But as GRRM has said, Daenerys is maybe 1/20 as Targaryen as Aegon I. So no matter who you think her parents are. Her blood didn't matter, not for binding and waking dragons. 

What about Maelys's  ousin Daemon? The man Maelys slew to seize control of the Golden Company? Or maybe a descendant of one of Daemon's daughters, particularly Calla, who we Bittersteel? 

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29 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

What about Maelys's  ousin Daemon? The man Maelys slew to seize control of the Golden Company? Or maybe a descendant of one of Daemon's daughters, particularly Calla, who we Bittersteel? 

Yea, except those people lived along time ago and were not given any body in between or even a clue really that it happened. Bittersteel died along time ago and his kid would be pretty old. Old enough to be Illyrios mother. So you'd have to bump in an extra generation to make it happen. Again, not much set up even for it to be possible. 

Ultimately, the Blackfyre branch represents a zero sum in the story. They dont retain the hidden dragon hatching gene. Them still existing serves nothing in the story other than just an apparent extra obstacle to throw in the story. Even if it was Vary's master plan. To what end. To restore House Blackfyre just because. Even though The obsession was in TPTWP. Aegon IV may have thought Daemon the one and why he bestowed Blackfyre on him. It wasn't to rule or he could have just named him heir. The man did what he wanted in everything else, why couldn't he match Viserys I in a lesser degree? Makes no sense. At all. Aegon IV didn't see an heir in Daemon, he saw the PTWP imo. But Daemon died, and didn't bring back dragons. His line is a dead end zero sum to the story. Aegon being real matters though as Dany believes she is the last, and believes she is the rightful ruler, when in fact, her lifes obsession may be something she can let go of if she isn't obsessed with it. Other than the clues i think it serves more to the story if Aegon is real. Though i could be wrong. 

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55 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Aegon IV didn't see an heir in Daemon, he saw the PTWP imo. But Daemon died, and didn't bring back dragons.

Hey Sandman, that's an interesting idea about Aegon IV and the PTWP. 

Do you believe the post-Daemon I Blackfyres also knew/know of the prophecy?

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1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yea, except those people lived along time ago and were not given any body in between or even a clue really that it happened. Bittersteel died along time ago and his kid would be pretty old. Old enough to be Illyrios mother. So you'd have to bump in an extra generation to make it happen. Again, not much set up even for it to be possible. 

Ultimately, the Blackfyre branch represents a zero sum in the story. They dont retain the hidden dragon hatching gene. Them still existing serves nothing in the story other than just an apparent extra obstacle to throw in the story. Even if it was Vary's master plan. To what end. To restore House Blackfyre just because. Even though The obsession was in TPTWP. Aegon IV may have thought Daemon the one and why he bestowed Blackfyre on him. It wasn't to rule or he could have just named him heir. The man did what he wanted in everything else, why couldn't he match Viserys I in a lesser degree? Makes no sense. At all. Aegon IV didn't see an heir in Daemon, he saw the PTWP imo. But Daemon died, and didn't bring back dragons. His line is a dead end zero sum to the story. Aegon being real matters though as Dany believes she is the last, and believes she is the rightful ruler, when in fact, her lifes obsession may be something she can let go of if she isn't obsessed with it. Other than the clues i think it serves more to the story if Aegon is real. Though i could be wrong. 

Me too. 

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13 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Reason i have a hard time buying it is that the only Blackfyre left near the time needed for Serra and Varys to be born is Melys Blackfyre.

Daemon I Blackfyre had 7 sons, and at least 2 daughters.

1. Aegon - died at Redgrass Field.

2. Aegon's twin brother Aemon - died at Redgrass Field.

3. Daemon II - was imprisoned by Bloodraven after Tournament at Whitewalls, died a few years later in King's Landing.

4. Haegon I - was killed during Third Rebellion, after he gave Blackfyre sword to Targaryens.

5. Aenys - was executed by Bloodraven, when he came to 7K, to participate in Great Council, on which was crowned Aegon V, and Bloodraven for his crime was exiled to The Wall.

6. Unnamed yet son.

7. Unnamed yet son.

8. Calla Blackfyre, wife of Aegor Bittersteel Rivers, founder of Golden Company.

9. One more unnamed yet daughter.

Those nine are children of Daemon I.

Also there were two sons of Haegon I:

1. Daemon III.

2. Unnamed yet son.

And later there was one more Daemon, and his cousin Maelys the Monstrous (that was killed by Barristan Selmy). It was said that with death of this Maelys, ended male line of Blackfyres. Which means that there was still a female line. 

The point is - there could have been more Blackfyres left than just Maelys. He was the last from male line. Not the very last at all. Current Blackfyres could be descendants of Calla Blackfyre, or her sister, or one of Aenys' daughters (because there's no reason for a 36-37 years old Aenys not to have children), or daughter of sixth's or seventh's sons of Daemon I.

And the reason why we don't know about them yet, is because they will be antagonists in remaining novels from Dunc & Egg series.

Edited by Megorova

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3 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Daemon I Blackfyre had 7 sons, and at least 2 daughters.

1. Aegon - died at Redgrass Field.

2. Aegon's twin brother Aemon - died at Redgrass Field.

3. Daemon II - was imprisoned by Bloodraven after Tournament at Whitewalls, died a few years later in King's Landing.

4. Haegon I - was killed during Third Rebellion, after he gave Blackfyre sword to Targaryens.

5. Aenys - was executed by Bloodraven, when he came to 7K, to participate in Great Council, on which was crowned Aegon V, and Bloodraven for his crime was exiled to The Wall.

6. Unnamed yet son.

7. Unnamed yet son.

8. Calla Blackfyre, wife of Aegor Bittersteel Rivers, founder of Golden Company.

9. One more unnamed yet daughter.

Those nine are children of Daemon I.

Also there were two sons of Haegon I:

1. Daemon III.

2. Unnamed yet son.

And later there was one more Daemon, and his cousin Maelys the Monstrous (that was killed by Barristan Selmy). It was said that with death of this Maelys, ended male line of Blackfyres. Which means that there was still a female line. 

The point is - there could have been more Blackfyres left than just Maelys. He was the last from male line. Not the very last at all. Current Blackfyres could be descendants of Calla Blackfyre, or her sister, or one of Aenys' daughters (because there's no reason for a 36-37 years old Aenys not to have children), or daughter of sixth or seventh sons of Daemon I.

And the reason why we don't know about them yet, is because they will be antagonists in remaining novels from Dunc & Egg series.

Or because the George doesn't want to spoil the Aegon Blackfyre theory. 

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17 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Or because the George doesn't want to spoil the Aegon Blackfyre theory. 

Could be. Though the stories in which Dunc and Egg will meet Blackfyres, will be at least 4+. Because next novel, third, is about Winterfell. Next book from ASOIAF series will be published sooner than 4th book out of D&E series. Thus D&E book most likely won't spoil anything, at least for The Winds of Winter. Though if GRRM will leave revelation about Varys and fAegon's real identity, until the last book of series (ADOS), only then further books from D&E series will have spoilers in them. Though those books, 5-12, (if they will ever be published) will come out in 2020-2030+.

 

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40 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Could be. Though the stories in which Dunc and Egg will meet Blackfyres, will be at least 4+. Because next novel, third, is about Winterfell. Next book from ASOIAF series will be published sooner than 4th book out of D&E series. Thus D&E book most likely won't spoil anything, at least for The Winds of Winter. Though if GRRM will leave revelation about Varys and fAegon's real identity, until the last book of series (ADOS), only then further books from D&E series will have spoilers in them. Though those books, 5-12, (if they will ever be published) will come out in 2020-2030+.

Dude, I don't think anyone has any idea as to when the remaining novels and proposed novellas will be published, or if The George will be able to write them. Dude's 69. How many productive years does he have left? 

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Dude, I don't think anyone has any idea as to when the remaining novels and proposed novellas will be published, or if The George will be able to write them. Dude's 69. How many productive years does he have left? 

" Martin has said that he would like to write a number of these stories (varying from six to twelve from interview to interview) covering the entire lives of these two characters. He has talked about an unfinished fourth novella with the working title The She-Wolves of Winterfell, which was originally to be included in the 2013 anthology Dangerous Women. As of late 2013, work on the story has been postponed while Martin completes The Winds of Winter. In April 2014, Martin also announced that he had roughed out another Dunk and Egg story with the working title The Village Hero which would be set in the Riverlands. He noted that he was not sure which of these two would be completed first.[6] In 2015, Martin noted that in addition to She-Wolves and The Village Hero he had notes and fairly specific ideas for a number of further installments, including The Sellsword, The Champion, The Kingsguard, and The Lord Commander, taking the planned series total to as many as nine novellas.[7] "

 

Based on this, seems that by 2015 She-Wolves and The Village Hero were nearly done. Because if in 2015 he already wrote notes for novels 6, 7, 8 and 9, then 4 and 5 were already mostly done.

Also D&E books are much shorter than ASOIAF books. For example novel 1 (The Hedge Knight) is 56,120 words or 184 pages long. In second novel there are 152 pages. Novel 3 (The Mystery Knight) is 48,800 words or 160 pages long.

A Game of Thrones - 298,000. A Clash of kings - 326,000. A Storm of Swords - 424,000. A Feast for Crows - 300,000. A Dance with Dragons - 422,000. In all five combined together there are 1,770,000 words.

AGOT alone is nearly three times longer that all three first novels of D&E series. One D&E novel is equal to 5-7 chapters of ADWD (chapters with Dany's Jon's or Tyrion's POV is 5,500-7,500+ words long).

So it's possible that GRRM will be done with writing entire series of D&E, even sooner than TWOW will be published. Though even if he will be done with their writing, doesn't mean that all of them will be published all at once, or one close to the other. To make more money, it makes more sense to prolong publication for as long as possible. Thus we may get those books in 2030+, and author's age is irrelevant.

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10 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Hey Sandman, that's an interesting idea about Aegon IV and the PTWP. 

Do you believe the post-Daemon I Blackfyres also knew/know of the prophecy?

I think they did likely, and knew more about hatching dragons too. As they seem to be able to hatch dragons with no problem up to Aegon III. 

Then, something happened that caused the Targaryens to either forget how to hatch them, or for some reason, it changed. I dont see how the practice could have changed, so the only other option is that the knowledge was lost some how.

Based on Daenerys and how she seems to have hatched them, i guess that it always required a blood/death sacrifice. Something we dont hear of Aegon V trying at Summerhal or any other Targ. I can't help but think this is the missing key then. The twisted births to Rhaenyra and such i suspect as part of this, perhaps you have to keep binding them to your line? Not sure. 

Dragons were hatching up till Aegon III. 

So what was Jaehaerys and Barth studying about them? How to kill them? Did they figure out how to perfectly hatch them and thats why theres a temp boom? Followed by a loss of them? Though Barths books weren't burned till Baelor. So if they contained info on how to hatch them, it makes no sense why none were hatched then.

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4 hours ago, Megorova said:

Daemon I Blackfyre had 7 sons, and at least 2 daughters.

1. Aegon - died at Redgrass Field.

2. Aegon's twin brother Aemon - died at Redgrass Field.

3. Daemon II - was imprisoned by Bloodraven after Tournament at Whitewalls, died a few years later in King's Landing.

4. Haegon I - was killed during Third Rebellion, after he gave Blackfyre sword to Targaryens.

5. Aenys - was executed by Bloodraven, when he came to 7K, to participate in Great Council, on which was crowned Aegon V, and Bloodraven for his crime was exiled to The Wall.

6. Unnamed yet son.

7. Unnamed yet son.

8. Calla Blackfyre, wife of Aegor Bittersteel Rivers, founder of Golden Company.

9. One more unnamed yet daughter.

Those nine are children of Daemon I.

Also there were two sons of Haegon I:

1. Daemon III.

2. Unnamed yet son.

And later there was one more Daemon, and his cousin Maelys the Monstrous (that was killed by Barristan Selmy). It was said that with death of this Maelys, ended male line of Blackfyres. Which means that there was still a female line. 

The point is - there could have been more Blackfyres left than just Maelys. He was the last from male line. Not the very last at all. Current Blackfyres could be descendants of Calla Blackfyre, or her sister, or one of Aenys' daughters (because there's no reason for a 36-37 years old Aenys not to have children), or daughter of sixth's or seventh's sons of Daemon I.

And the reason why we don't know about them yet, is because they will be antagonists in remaining novels from Dunc & Egg series.

 

4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Or because the George doesn't want to spoil the Aegon Blackfyre theory. 

 

Again though, for what? They serve no purpose. Blackfyres aren't the true branch of Targaryens, they aren't secret dragon hatchers. 

Aegon IV fathering Daemon on Daena amounts to nothing. She doesn't hold the blood of the Green Faction. The Green Faction died. The Blacks are all that survived. The Blackfyres and current Targaryens are made of of the Black faction from the Dance. 

Aegon IV didn't give Daemon Blackfyre due to him being the rightfully chosen Heir. Aegon IV never amended his will. So Aegon IV must have been looking for TPTWP. Other wise he had the power to name Daemon Heir. He legitimatized him, but doesn't name him heir.  

But anything is possible i guess. 

I will give you that Bittersteel didn't die till 241. So any kid by him would be 59 during the current story. Seems a little old for Varys given how easily he gets around like a water dancer. I put Varys in his 40's more likely. So your Serra would have to be the grand daughter of Calla. 

Also, if female line mattered, wouldn't Bloodraven had been killing them too. Guy was pretty efficient. I dont think he would have let that slide. 

Where did Maelys even come from? Again, he ate one brother and killed his cousin. 

Any other daughters children would be named for their husbands house. Unless the husband gave it up in the case of House Lyddon and House Lannister. Which is really the female Casterly line. If you can say that really. Casterly blood is there, but their line is broken too. You would need more Casterly daughters to keep it alive. And keep breeding with just them to keep the mitochondria the same. Sounds flimsy to me. Like GRRM said Dany is maybe 1/20 as Targ as Aegon I. Her blood is crap.

My theory on Rhaenyra doesn't work on female lines. Just simply, Stark blood. Aegon III got it from his mother and his father, simply too much Stark Blood that watered down the main family line. Little different. 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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Okay, a little scared about posting this when everyone else is quoting other materials.  Also, I am certain I have said this before, but is it beyond the realm of possibility that Varys is playing Illyrio and his boy?   This being said I am pretty certain that Varys was "cut" for his royal blood (pure Targ or Blackfyre...) or how about a king with a Blackfyre mistress but had to pose as commoner???  Okay, far fetched, granted but personally I get a lot of clues in the story for Varys playing Illyrio.

What Varys says to Kevan as he is dying.  No need to lie to him, to your birds, maybe... for they may report back.

He headhunts Tyrion in a fashion that not even the top IT companies would do today.  Ensures he is dead otherwise, no escape there, then he tells him to support Danny but ensures he meets this "perfect prince" first.  He is clearly recruiting him whilst using him as a "tester" for how the lad will be perceived by someone such as him... If he was all for Aegon, he would not put Aegon anywhere near the sharp mind of Tyrion unless necessity must!

I cannot wait to see how it all pans out and I love your theories guys but slightly surprised, given the amount of tinfoil a lot of us have produced,that not many think Varys is playing Illyrio....

 

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3 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Okay, a little scared about posting this when everyone else is quoting other materials.  Also, I am certain I have said this before, but is it beyond the realm of possibility that Varys is playing Illyrio and his boy?   This being said I am pretty certain that Varys was "cut" for his royal blood (pure Targ or Blackfyre...) or how about a king with a Blackfyre mistress but had to pose as commoner???  Okay, far fetched, granted but personally I get a lot of clues in the story for Varys playing Illyrio.

What Varys says to Kevan as he is dying.  No need to lie to him, to your birds, maybe... for they may report back.

He headhunts Tyrion in a fashion that not even the top IT companies would do today.  Ensures he is dead otherwise, no escape there, then he tells him to support Danny but ensures he meets this "perfect prince" first.  He is clearly recruiting him whilst using him as a "tester" for how the lad will be perceived by someone such as him... If he was all for Aegon, he would not put Aegon anywhere near the sharp mind of Tyrion unless necessity must!

I cannot wait to see how it all pans out and I love your theories guys but slightly surprised, given the amount of tinfoil a lot of us have produced,that not many think Varys is playing Illyrio....

 

I suggested as much but not that Aegon is Illyrio's. 
Varys chose Illyrio to which Illyria tells Tyrion that he will never understand why. Varys had reasons. 

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10 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I suggested as much but not that Aegon is Illyrio's. 
Varys chose Illyrio to which Illyria tells Tyrion that he will never understand why. Varys had reasons. 

I would love to see your theory, honestly! (not being sarcastic in any way or anything), so few people think that allegiance Varys/Illyrio is unbreakable lol

I have kind of laid out my tinfoil theory but more theories would be company ;)

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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23 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

I would love to see your theory, honestly! (not being sarcastic in any way or anything), so few people think that allegiance Varys/Illyrio is unbreakable lol

I have kind of laid out my tinfoil theory but more theories would be company ;)

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150244-part-5-varys/

 

It is kind of important to understand my take on the past though.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150239-part-1-the-blacks-and-the-greens/

This sets the stage ^ Stark take over of House Targaryen and the death of Dragons.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150240-part-2-dragons-and-starks/

This follows through to Dany and how she still hatched dragons. Which would explain why Varys is supporting the real Aegon and opposing Daenerys. The Varys thread takes off from there looking at Vary's actions more. Somethings i forgot to include like Varys warning Jon Arryn to get a food taster, but not relevant to his Targ connection. Note how he looks like Aegon V. 

 

Edited by AlaskanSandman

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38 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150244-part-5-varys/

 

It is kind of important to understand my take on the past though.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150239-part-1-the-blacks-and-the-greens/

This sets the stage ^ Stark take over of House Targaryen and the death of Dragons.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150240-part-2-dragons-and-starks/

This follows through to Dany and how she still hatched dragons. Which would explain why Varys is supporting the real Aegon and opposing Daenerys. The Varys thread takes off from there looking at Vary's actions more. Somethings i forgot to include like Varys warning Jon Arryn to get a food taster, but not relevant to his Targ connection. Note how he looks like Aegon V. 

 

OMG, just started reading and thank you so much for sharing!!!  so you approached George and, vague as he ever is, took the time to reply!!!  Wow, nothing wrong with asking politely, what an achievement!!! The first part, onto the rest yes, to me indicates that he is vague about Dany being barren (my guess is that she is not... but hey anything is possible here) ;)  Thanks soooo much for sharing this!!!

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