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Heresy 205 bats and little green men

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6 hours ago, SirArthur said:

The only thing I can possibly read out of this that isn't there and hasn't been mentioned yet is, that the three names Sam mentioned were actual commanders of the NW in that order or another.  And yes, being blind and seeing things were mentioned by Sam in the same sentence. So opened third eye ? greenseer ?

Or maybe the same person? At three different points in time? The transformation from leader, to greenseer, to ww, to Other, with increasing abuse of power along the way?

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1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

The Nights Queen was likely a priestess - the ice version of Melisandre. The 13th Lord Commander would need a priestess to "give birth" to magic again, but it doesn't necessarily have to mean they had sex and gave birth to an actual baby. It could be read more symbolic than that.

Gut instinct? I think she was a greenseer. And not just any greenseer. I think that she may well have been Night’s King’s 3EC. You all may think I’m nuts, but there’s a reason for the parallels between Bran’s coma dream and the overall story of Night’s King and his Queen. :D 

1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

Once the seal was broken on the ward holding magic back

I was looking through @Sly Wren‘s theory on the Black Gate being Night’s King again last night and saw a comment by @LynnS that started me off on a bit of a tangent. She was speculating that the “blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice,” was actually the weirwood sapling that was growing by the well in the Night Fort. I think that she might be correct. What if, in order to stop him, and the magic, Night’s King (or at least his spirit) was entombed in a weirwood tree, one that formed the Black Gate. Then that weirwood was then encased in ice, oh, like as in a huge ass wall of ice to contain it. What happens when that weirwood tree eventually finds its way back to the surface? 

1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

The iron swords on the Stark crypts are to insure they don't rise as wights should another Long Night come, but then all the dead rise as wights - not just Starks.

But why iron swords? Why not just burn the bodies? That’s what the Wildlings do. It certainly seems more foolproof. Anyone can remove an iron sword. Does something happen when Stark bodies are burned? Or is it just an attempt at preservation for any future need?

2 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Of what benefit would it be to wipe out the records of the Nights King? If they didn't want it to happen again they should have kept meticulous records.

Except... If power corrupts then absolute power corrupts absolutely. Not everyone might look at what happened to Night’s King as being a bad thing, and people rarely learn from the mistakes of others. What better way to eliminate the possibility of a recurrence than by wiping out all of the related knowledge. 

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25 minutes ago, Lady Dyanna said:

I was looking through @Sly Wren‘s theory on the Black Gate being Night’s King again last night and saw a comment by @LynnS that started me off on a bit of a tangent. She was speculating that the “blue flower growing from a chink in a wall of ice,” was actually the weirwood sapling that was growing by the well in the Night Fort. I think that she might be correct. What if, in order to stop him, and the magic, Night’s King (or at least his spirit) was entombed in a weirwood tree, one that formed the Black Gate. Then that weirwood was then encased in ice, oh, like as in a huge ass wall of ice to contain it. What happens when that weirwood tree eventually finds its way back to the surface? 

My guess is that the weirwood at the Black Gate is connected by it's root system to the weirwood at Whitetree and the greenseer that is a thousand years old is actually located there.  

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

A glow came from the wood, like milk and moonlight, so faint it scarcely seemed to touch anything beyond the door itself, not even Sam standing right before it. The face was old and pale, wrinkled and shrunken. It looks dead. Its mouth was closed, and its eyes; its cheeks were sunken, its brow withered, its chin sagging. If a man could live for a thousand years and never die but just grow older, his face might come to look like that.

The door opened its eyes.

They were white too, and blind. "Who are you?" the door asked, and the well whispered, "Who-who-who-who-who-who-who."

Yes, I do think Bran can access the magic of the Wall using the Black Gate via the wierwood net and this is what we are seeing manifested when Bran appears to Jon as Weir-Bran; the sapling growing before his eyes from the rock above the tree-line where no weirwood exists physically.  It's a metaphysical doorway and I suspect the middle head of the god Trios.

I tend to pay attention to Bran's impressions and intuitions since we know he will have access to a greater knowledge at some point and these impression might bleed back to him at a younger stage.  So a man that is a thousand years old brings to mind the Grey King who was said to have lived for a thousand years also.  As I've mentioned before Euron mocks the Damphair with salt water and calls it the Drowned God's salt kiss; something that Bran experiences when he passes through the Black Gate:

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Bran IV

"Then pass," the door said. Its lips opened, wide and wider and wider still, until nothing at all remained but a great gaping mouth in a ring of wrinkles. Sam stepped aside and waved Jojen through ahead of him. Summer followed, sniffing as he went, and then it was Bran's turn. Hodor ducked, but not low enough. The door's upper lip brushed softly against the top of Bran's head, and a drop of water fell on him and ran slowly down his nose. It was strangely warm, and salty as a tear.

Because the tear is warm; I'm not certain of the icy connection but perhaps there is a connection to the Black Line of Harren and the drowned god.    

Is it really Bloodraven that is rousing himself from the weirnet or the drowned god/black gate?  Is it Bloodraven's weirwood that Bran sees or the tree at Whitetree with it's crooked mouth?  The tree that scares  Bran and is described as monstrous?  

Who has been watching Bran:

Quote

They were white too, and blind. "Who are you?" the door asked, and the well whispered, "Who-who-who-who-who-who-who."

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Bran II

He liked how it felt too, pulling himself up a wall stone by stone, fingers and toes digging hard into the small crevices between. He always took off his boots and went barefoot when he climbed; it made him feel as if he had four hands instead of two. He liked the deep, sweet ache it left in the muscles afterward. He liked the way the air tasted way up high, sweet and cold as a winter peach. He liked the birds: the crows in the broken tower, the tiny little sparrows that nested in cracks between the stones, the ancient owl that slept in the dusty loft above the old armory. Bran knew them all.

 

 

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On 3/2/2018 at 2:47 PM, Lady Dyanna said:

No worries on the books. I think that most of us are familiar enough with the primary source to get what you’re saying. Or at least should be by now. :D

I mostly agree with you. But with a couple of exceptions and/or additions. I think that being a greenseer attached to a tree isn’t quite enough. I suspect that something needs to be done to detach that greenseer from the tree in order for them to take up a second (or is it third) life in something other than the tree. It seems that you can be a greenseer and continue to skin change (we see both Bran and BR do this, I think) but I would expect there might be yet another step to be able to create your own body out of thin air, which seems to be what they are able to do. They don’t just travel on the wind. They are the wind. (It’s always windy before they arrive, but just freezing cold after they do.) I think that there’s a magical ritual and that it involves killing the weirwood tree. (Think of the lightening blasted chestnut tree that Jon sees that has been overgrown with white roses. Bring anything to mind?) I also suspect it’s the human greenseers that are at fault on this one, even though the children might have actually opened that door to them. You mentioned Bran seeing the people impaled on the ice. I agree that it’s rather analogous to the CotF in the roots. But what also stands out to me is that he sees people (humans) impaled on the ice and not CotF. 

I also agree that V6’s journey to his second life shouldn’t be overlooked, nor that statement that he is the tree. In fact, I think it’s quite important. Not the least of which because V6 was NOT a greenseer. Even if he didn’t stay part of the tree permanently, how did he ever join with it to begin with? Where did that power come from? Can anyone travel through the tree in death or is that something special? Is there something that V6 did that any skinchanger can do that increased his power? Is it related to the abominations? (I think it might be.) 

Lol...I actually agree with you.To be specific don't   believe they are just any wind.They are "the cold wind that rises" and we know what happens when the cold wind rises

"The dead come with them" 

My idea and understanding of greenseer might be a bit more loose than others.

I think the" name" greenseer is what the little tree huggers term a person who could skinchange AND delve into the past and see far future according to the world book.

It goes on to state that a Skinchanger is a person who could mingle their spirit with an animal and control it.

Thus by this definition of one who can mingle their spirit with an animal and one who can delve into past and future.

Dany is a greenseer. What qualifies is the Skinchanging and the sight.If they have these gifts they can use mediums of sight like the Weirwoods,glass candles,flames even ice.

The lack of  sight is what disqualifies v6 as a green seer.No sight can't use the mediums to see.

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