Jump to content
Sophia Wilson17@yahoo.ca

Question Does Varys knows who Jon Snow really is?

Recommended Posts

He might, but it isn't very likely. If he suspects something he most likely decided long ago that a Targaryen with Stark looks is not going to be of any use in a Targaryen restoration scheme.

If little Aegon had looked like his sister Rhaenys he wouldn't have been of any use, either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is almost impossible that Varys doesn't know or at least suspect that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I'm pretty sure that most readers are wrong about what Varys is up to and if I am right, then it would be natural for Varys to know about Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, bent branch said:

I think it is almost impossible that Varys doesn't know or at least suspect that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I'm pretty sure that most readers are wrong about what Varys is up to and if I am right, then it would be natural for Varys to know about Jon.

Completely agree. I mean, I don't know what's your take on Varys' true agenda so can't agree or disagree w/ that. But definitely w/ the rest. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If he cared to investigate I certainly believe he would be capable of piecing together enough information to deduce beyond a reasonable doubt the truth about Jon, the question is if he’d make the effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Varys knew "Jon Snow" was another Targaryen, Rhaegar's son, then he and Illyrio would have made use of Jon by now. They "helped" Daenerys and Viserys for some time, and had a much longer, more manipulative relationship with Young Griff, who could be Aegon Targaryen or maybe a Blackfyre or something. They've kept an eye on these young dragons almost since their births. If Varys and hence Illyrio knew about Jon Snow, he'd be part of their plot, and not allowed to take a vow of celibacy and non-interference at the Wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am actually surprised not more people have hinted that they suspect Jon Snow of being someone other than Ned's love child with an unknown woman but then again, him taking the black makes Jon irrelevant in the World of Westeros.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

him taking the black makes Jon irrelevant in the World of Westeros.

That, and being apparently dead at this point. Still, had Varys known who Jon was, he'd have never ended up at the Wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, zandru said:

That, and being apparently dead at this point. Still, had Varys known who Jon was, he'd have never ended up at the Wall.

Why not? If Varys is pushing for Aegon, like I think he is and I also believe he is a Blackfyre, Varys must know that, so, why would Varys want a son of Rheagar, illegit or otherwise to be in play as a potential rival?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, zandru said:

If Varys knew "Jon Snow" was another Targaryen, Rhaegar's son, then he and Illyrio would have made use of Jon by now. They "helped" Daenerys and Viserys for some time, and had a much longer, more manipulative relationship with Young Griff, who could be Aegon Targaryen or maybe a Blackfyre or something. They've kept an eye on these young dragons almost since their births. If Varys and hence Illyrio knew about Jon Snow, he'd be part of their plot, and not allowed to take a vow of celibacy and non-interference at the Wall.

See above. Jon looks like a Stark. He is of no use in a Targaryen restoration scheme since his looks do not give his identity away. It won't be easy to convince people that Eddard Stark's bastard is actually a Targaryen prince - never mind, how good the evidence is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Varys would have been keeping track of Rhaegar so I can’t imagine he wouldn’t. Varys talked with Tyrion about power being where people perceive it to be, so super-Starky Jon as a Targ heir is about an impossible sell. Even if Jon rode a dragon, those who didn’t care for Jon for whatever reason could still hand-wave it away because everyone thought Robb was a warg and "unnatural", so why couldn’t Jon be in the same vein and maybe able to skinchange a dragon?

Pyp being a mummer with a gift for languages makes me wonder if he’s an informer for Varys.

Also, I suspect Ned raising Jon inspired Varys’ plans for raising Aegon in that he was raised in a way which was distinctly not Southern-esque. He seemed to have had a genuine respect for Ned. Also making Aegon like Ned, Aegon wasn’t taught how to play the game. 

LF: Don’t trust anyone, not even me.

Ned: Ok, I’ll trust you LF

 

Tyrion: Don’t trust anyone, not even me.

Aegon: Ok, I’ll trust you Tyrion. 

Not to mention JonCon wears a wolfskin, is icy, has a very Ned-like vibe and Tyrion calls him out on his lack of game in that supposed-to-be-no-one-important Aegon has a Septa tutor and a knight training him and JonCon doesn’t hide that he can read. Also, Ned/Maiden’s Dream Robert is quite the parallel to JonCon/Rhaegar.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well first youd have to believe that the show is spoiling the books on this and right. If you dont, then Jon isn't Rhaegar's and Varys and any knowledge of him would be a different story. 

Im not sold that Jon is a Targ so Varys' lack of interest in him is not surprising. His interest in Daenerys is not surprising either

Edited by AlaskanSandman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

I believe the show is going a different path and they cut the plot of Aegon Targaryen/Young Griff from the show version. Varys having a plot going on with Young Griff on books Does that mean Varys knows about Jon Snow and his birth?

Isn't this against forum rules?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Sophia [email protected] said:

I believe the show is going a different path and they cut the plot of Aegon Targaryen/Young Griff from the show version. Varys having a plot going on with Young Griff on books Does that mean Varys knows about Jon Snow and his birth?

The show cut Aegon out because they wanted to give Jon a story.  Jon likely died in the books and is not coming back.  At least not in human form.  What Jon does in the show is what Aegon will do in the books.  Jon will stay dead or come back in a direwolf form factor and stay that way.  I don't like Jon and would prefer Aegon to him. 

What would Varys know.  That Ned Stark and Ashara had a bastard son.  That Ashara is soiled for having a child out of wedlock. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Pyp being a mummer with a gift for languages makes me wonder if he’s an informer for Varys.

Isn't Pyp supposed to be illiterate? How does he communicate with Varys in King's Landing - or indeed, with anyone not at Castle Black? Plus, it seems as if all ravens are under the control of the maesters at both ends. This would sure clamp down on long distance communications for the whole society as well as Varys.

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

See above. Jon looks like a Stark. He is of no use in a Targaryen restoration scheme since his looks do not give his identity away. It won't be easy to convince people that Eddard Stark's bastard is actually a Targaryen prince - never mind, how good the evidence is.

Well, the appearance thing could be significant. On the other hand, as careful as Illyrio is to not put all the dragon eggs into one basket, if he/Varys knew about Jon Rhaegarsen Snow, we'd have seen some evidence of it. Now, Arya comes back to her father with her story about how the two men, one very very fat, down in the secret tunnels of the Red Keep, were mentioning how they "had the bastard" and she assumed they meant Jon. This may be all the tinfoil needed to prove the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Bloodraven's Spider said:

Yes. Varys most likely told Ned where Lyanna was and knew why. You don't just stumble across the Tower of Joy it's In the middle of no where. 

Ned very apparently not only where to go but also what to expect there, or else he wouldn't need to travel only with closest friends. That, however, doesn't mean that his source of information was Varys.

To my best knowledge, there has been zero indication whatsoever that Varys might know or suspect a thing. He knows a lot but unless he is a god, he cannot be omniscient, and having the character considered too stupid to play the game pull the wool over his eyes would be pure gold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, zandru said:

Isn't Pyp supposed to be illiterate? How does he communicate with Varys in King's Landing - or indeed, with anyone not at Castle Black? Plus, it seems as if all ravens are under the control of the maesters at both ends. This would sure clamp down on long distance communications for the whole society as well as Varys.

You've hit on one of the things which doesn't really work for me about ASOIAF. I don't really understand how the communication works in a world where nearly everyone is illiterate and information must travel great distances. But it does apparently as we see with LF and Varys.

Just guessing, but Pyp maybe doesn't need to read, just to report to someone else who reports from there and on it goes. It's possible the information to travel by land or ship and not be written down at all.  Not being able to read at all might be a hindrance to a mummer. All lines would have to memorized orally. Also, if I was a paid informant, I would probably would choose to avoid any unnecessary suspicion by saying I couldn't read. 

ASOS Daenerys V

Lord Varys reported every move Viserys made, for years. Whilst I sat on the small council, I heard a hundred such reports. And since the day you wed Khal Drogo, there has been an informer by your side selling your secrets, trading whispers to the Spider for gold and promises."

If Varys and LF can manage situations like above and the other times they knew something which took place over great distances, then I assume they could manage the Wall without a problem. I don't really get how, but maybe that would be spoilery for the reader. I just go with it. :dunno: 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×