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Lady Noble

Catelyn I: Who is Tansy? Do you think she'll be of any importance?

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In Catelyn I there's a "conversation" between Catelyn and her father. In his delirium, he mumbles on about someone named Tansy. I'd like to think this person is/was important. Why else would that be on his mind during the final stages of his life? Does it hint that perhaps Catelyn and/or Lisa aren't true born? It'd be kind of ironic if Catelyn learned after all this time she was a bastard like Jon. She has a pretty big role in the books so it makes me wonder if there's more to this paragraph.

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I'm not sure if he is speaking of a person here, he may be referring to the herb Tansy which is an abortifacient and could have been given to Lysa. It's Catelyn who prompts Hoster's eyes to open when she says 'It is a monstrous cruel thing to lose a child'. This when Hoster first says 'Tansy. Forgive me...the blood...' , and then he says after Carelyn asks who is Tansy... does she still alive? Hoster replies 'Dead. You'll have others...trueborn'. 

It seems like Hoster is tuning in to certain words said by Catelyn and applying them some guilt he carries... possibly Lysa. It could also be some sort of twist such as you state. I find it unlikely, but it is an interesting thought. Especially considering her negative feelings and unfair judgement that Catelyn has of bastards. There is a woman named Tansy in one of the Arya chapters who lives in the riverlands. 

Edited by DireDancer
Sentence structure.

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On 2/28/2018 at 2:51 PM, DireDancer said:

I'm not sure if he is speaking of a person here, he may be referring to the herb Tansy which is an abortifacient and could have been given to Lysa.

This. Cat mistakenly believes he is talking about a person named Tansy.

@Lady Noble

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Posted (edited)
On 2018-02-28 at 10:51 PM, DireDancer said:

There is a woman named Tansy in one of the Arya chapters who lives in the riverlands. 

Precisely, in the Arya chapter around page 390-400, and she actually has red hair and also speaks about what has happened at Riverrun; It's the rumour that Catelyn, Brienne and Jaime had "spent the night together", and that Catelyn then freed Jaime because she had come to love/lust for him, if I interpret that scene correctly. This could just be some random rumour that everyone knows, but honestly this Tansy could have some connection to Riverrun and maybe that's why she has information about what's going on there. When Catelyn asks the maester or some steward or someone if there was ever a woman named Tansy in service to Riverrun or something, he tells her about this woman a while back that was some serving woman or whatever. I don't remember exactly, but yeah anyway...

Edited by Adam Targaryen

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Posted (edited)
On 2/28/2018 at 9:51 PM, DireDancer said:

I'm not sure if he is speaking of a person here, he may be referring to the herb Tansy which is an abortifacient and could have been given to Lysa. It's Catelyn who prompts Hoster's eyes to open when she says 'It is a monstrous cruel thing to lose a child'. This when Hoster first says 'Tansy. Forgive me...the blood...' , and then he says after Carelyn asks who is Tansy... does she still alive? Hoster replies 'Dead. You'll have others...trueborn'. 

It seems like Hoster is tuning in to certain words said by Catelyn and applying them some guilt he carries... possibly Lysa. It could also be some sort of twist such as you state. I find it unlikely, but it is an interesting thought. Especially considering her negative feelings and unfair judgement that Catelyn has of bastards. There is a woman named Tansy in one of the Arya chapters who lives in the riverlands. 

I am totally with you here, but I came to this conclusion very recently upon a re-read.  It seems commonly accepted that Hoster persuaded Lysa to abort her child by LF, who she was always in love with anyway and given there is a herb with those properties by the name of tansy, to me that settles it.  However, it is easy to see how Cat thought that was the name of a person, or a nickname for a person in an affectionate way and her first thought was that Hoster once had a lover, or fancied a woman by this name, possibly a servant, hence never spoke of her before.  That is probably what I would have thought first had I been Cat.  Yes, there was a Tansy, or Pansy or Nancy or something but, if I recall correctly, she was very old even then and used to come occasionally mending shoes or something like that.  Seems an unlikely candidate.  I am going for the man is now a bit delirious and close to his end and he has carried that guilt with him all his life, the death of his, base-born or not, grandchild and Lysa's sadness and numerous miscarriages.  I really think he is speaking of the abortive herb.

What I meant by "discovering" this in a re-read is that, I can't remember where exactly but it is in Storm, the herb is mentioned in the context of avoiding pregnancy... "pansy tea" if I remember rightly.

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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Posted (edited)
On 4/24/2018 at 7:14 PM, Adam Targaryen said:

Precisely, in the Arya chapter around page 390-400, and she actually has red hair and also speaks about what has happened at Riverrun; It's the rumour that Catelyn, Brienne and Jaime had "spent the night together", and that Catelyn then freed Jaime because she had come to love/lust for him, if I interpret that scene correctly. This could just be some random rumour that everyone knows, but honestly this Tansy could have some connection to Riverrun and maybe that's why she has information about what's going on there. When Catelyn asks the maester or some steward or someone if there was ever a woman named Tansy in service to Riverrun or something, he tells her about this woman a while back that was some serving woman or whatever. I don't remember exactly, but yeah anyway...

lol I must re-read that!  Was there a rumour that Cat/Jaime/Brienne had a 3some lol  Okay, yes we all know how rumours can get ridiculous but c'mon this is kind of hilarious.  Even if Jaime/Brienne happened it would be on the page, not just a rumour (or okay I would be crossed with George lol) but Cat/Jaime???  Even if it were just for the sake of his daughters she doesn't need to do that!  He is her prisoner (well Robb's really but okay...), she does not need to spread her legs for that at all.  She has the power there, not him...  so if we are going for exchange of prisoners all she had to do is what she in fact did!  Cat was in love with Ned and Jaime maimed him lol I know you are not saying you believed this ever happened but how can even the smallfolk believe this is beyond me! but okay I am kind of going off topic here.

However, I happen to re-read that passage last night and indeed a red hair ink-keeper/brothel keeper named Tansy was talking about that rumour.  Of course the rumour is a rumour, we saw the scene where Cat speaks to Jaime and nothing of the sort ever happened.  Could this has been Hoster's lover or even daughter? mayhaps but what would that add to the storyline???  I reckon it all goes back to Lysa who is in fact very connected to the main story line rather than a random peasant with no plot purpose whatsoever, since she could not have any claim on the Riverlands (unlike bastards on other circumstances) etc.   We just know that she supports the Brotherhood.

Edited by Morgana Lannister
adding content

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On 2018-04-29 at 10:48 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

lol I must re-read that!  Was there a rumour that Cat/Jaime/Brienne had a 3some lol  Okay, yes we all know how rumours can get ridiculous but c'mon this is kind of hilarious.  Even if Jaime/Brienne happened it would be on the page, not just a rumour (or okay I would be crossed with George lol) but Cat/Jaime???  Even if it were just for the sake of his daughters she doesn't need to do that!  He is her prisoner (well Robb's really but okay...), she does not need to spread her legs for that at all.  She has the power there, not him...  so if we are going for exchange of prisoners all she had to do is what she in fact did!  Cat was in love with Ned and Jaime maimed him lol I know you are not saying you believed this ever happened but how can even the smallfolk believe this is beyond me! but okay I am kind of going off topic here.

Well yeah, obviously it's just a random smallfolk rumour, like all the others and we all know that it's not true but the smallfolk believe everything. Anyway, I stand by my belief that this woman might have been the woman called Tansy that the maester spoke of, and therefore possibly Hoster's old mistress or bastard daughter or something

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22 hours ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Well yeah, obviously it's just a random smallfolk rumour, like all the others and we all know that it's not true but the smallfolk believe everything. Anyway, I stand by my belief that this woman might have been the woman called Tansy that the maester spoke of, and therefore possibly Hoster's old mistress or bastard daughter or something

It's a huge possibility but I do wonder how it would serve the plot...

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On 5/2/2018 at 1:08 AM, Adam Targaryen said:

Well yeah, obviously it's just a random smallfolk rumour, like all the others and we all know that it's not true but the smallfolk believe everything. Anyway, I stand by my belief that this woman might have been the woman called Tansy that the maester spoke of, and therefore possibly Hoster's old mistress or bastard daughter or something

It points that way... but in terms of narrative, why would the readers care about Hoster Tully and some wench???  There appears to be no plot purpose other than to show to Cat the noble men can go with other women, which she knows... (she believes Jon is Ned's. say).  To me the level of guilt points to Lysa and her pregnancy by Petyr...

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Tansy the inn-brothel keeper was just a red herring. It's a common name, but Hoster wasn't talking about a woman, he was talking about tricking/forcing Lysa to abort the child she really wanted - which left severe psychological and physical damage on her, and may have caused her later miscarriages (if the pregnancy was fairly late). This is finally revealed in Sansa's last chapter in the book (the penultimate chapter in general), when Lysa mentions tansy tea andPetyr's baby she wanted to have.

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