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AmberEmpress

Tommen's fate

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20 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Cersei is being a real bee-otch to Maggy so Maggy is giving her the hard truth: you will see you children die and the "little brother" (which, among her children, is Tommen) will then choke her to death.

Can also be anyone of Robert's from Gendry downwards. And in a weird reading it could also be any of their half-siblings. So Jaime's son or of any of Robert's concubines'. 

And also on a side note: All of Robert's children can also have golden shrouds. In fact the question was "Will the king and I have children?"

And the answer is "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds". That can be all of them, none of them (as they have no children together) or some. It is not specific for her children only. 

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23 hours ago, SirArthur said:

Can also be anyone of Robert's from Gendry downwards. And in a weird reading it could also be any of their half-siblings. So Jaime's son or of any of Robert's concubines'. 

And also on a side note: All of Robert's children can also have golden shrouds. In fact the question was "Will the king and I have children?"

And the answer is "Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds". That can be all of them, none of them (as they have no children together) or some. It is not specific for her children only. 

Maybe, but I think this is stretching it a bit far. When she says "six and ten for him and three for you. Gold will be their crowns and gold their shrouds" she is already referring to only Cersei's children, since it is unlikely all 16 of Robert's children will become king/queen and then die with golden shrouds. Then she mentions the valonqar in the next sentence, so it would seem to me that she is still referring to the three royal children.

Plus, it would take quite a bit of plot twisting and turning to put any of Robert's bastards near Cersei again. I doubt Edric Storm would be able to overpower Cersei for a good number of years, and why would Gendry choose to strangle her rather than cut her down with a sword?

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Of the choices for Tommen's killer Varys seems the most likely to me. He's sowing confusion in KL to soften things up for Aegon's invasion and along those lines removing any Baratheon claimants to the Iron Throne would also help his cause.

Tommen wasn't involved in the deaths of either Elia or Oberyn so I don't see the Sand Snakes having a strong reason to kill him.

Edited by Light a wight tonight
Clarity

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11 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Of the choices for Tommen's killer Varys seems the most likely to me. He's sowing confusion in KL to soften things up for Aegon's invasion and along those lines removing any Baratheon claimants to the Iron Throne would also help his cause.

Tommen wasn't involved in the deaths of either Elia or Oberyn so I don't see the Sand Snakes having a strong reason to kill him.

After the deaths of Pycelle and Kevan, and Tywin before them, I would assume that it will become increasingly difficult for Varys to strike down key figures from the shadows. I would expect the king and other top leaders to maintain guards about their persons at all times. Unless, of course, the George wants Varys to off the wee laddie. 

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16 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

After the deaths of Pycelle and Kevan, and Tywin before them, I would assume that it will become increasingly difficult for Varys to strike down key figures from the shadows. I would expect the king and other top leaders to maintain guards about their persons at all times. Unless, of course, the George wants Varys to off the wee laddie. 

The wee laddie's golden shroud awaits. Notable characters can be guarded and secret passages blocked, but someone like Anguy could still snipe off Lord Beetsbane from a distance.

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49 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

The wee laddie's golden shroud awaits. Notable characters can be guarded and secret passages blocked, but someone like Anguy could still snipe off Lord Beetsbane from a distance.

Oh, I agree. Ser Pounce and Lady Whiskers are about to find themselves in as desperate a situation as Balerion once did. I am just suggesting that Varys's ability to strike down key figures from the shadows should be limited going forward. 

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20 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Tommen wasn't involved in the deaths of either Elia or Oberyn so I don't see the Sand Snakes having a strong reason to kill him.

They do if Myrcella is still alive. They want to put her on the throne. Dornish custom would place her before Tommen but the rest of 7K puts younger brothers before older sisters, so they would have to get rid of Tommen. This, of course, would probably lead someone else to kill Myrcella and, viola, three crowns, three shrouds.

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18 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

They do if Myrcella is still alive. They want to put her on the throne. Dornish custom would place her before Tommen but the rest of 7K puts younger brothers before older sisters, so they would have to get rid of Tommen. This, of course, would probably lead someone else to kill Myrcella and, viola, three crowns, three shrouds.

Is that what House Martell wants, given the new promise of blood and fire? 

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6 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Is that what House Martell wants, given the new promise of blood and fire? 

Right now, it's their best shot. The actual blood and fire is still half a world away, and although they don't know it yet their plan to bring them to Westeros is pretty much a bust.

Will fAegon be enough? Depends on how good they are at convincing the Martells that he is actually who they say he is.

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13 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Is that what House Martell wants, given the new promise of blood and fire? 

The Sand Snakes aren't aware of this though and still want to crown Myrcella. 

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1 hour ago, AmberEmpress said:

The Sand Snakes aren't aware of this though and still want to crown Myrcella. 

Tyene and Nym will be aware of Aegon upon their arrival in King's Landing, if not sooner.

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On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 0:31 PM, John Suburbs said:

I'm not so sure about this. I think she still loves her children. She loves power too, though, but she would not be any different from any other noble in using her children to enhance her own power. But I think she is capable of genuine love for her children, much more so than her own father ever felt for her.

I disagree. I think there are several references to her loving her children fiercely, so the reader gets confused. But in her POV Cersei only shows passion for her children in a selfish way. She loves the power they bring her, and she loves her claim to them. When she feels like her claim is threatened (both to the Throne and to her children) then she acts in rage. But otherwise, she never thinks of Myrcella, doesn't respect or appreciate Tommen, and either did genuinely like Joff (because he is crazy like her) or only now reflects on him in admiration because he is deceased. Her care for them is one of her biggest delusions.

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Shroud

  1. wrap or dress (a body) in a shroud for burial.
  2. cover or envelop so as to conceal from view.

 

Perhaps he will be shrouded by water? 

 

Perhaps he will lose his identity as Tommen Baratheon and just become another smallfolk?

 

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My money is on Tyenne Sand. She is an expert with poisons, has been sent to infiltrate the Faith and Cersei is attended by septas, which would allow her to get inside Maegor's holdfast and close to Tommen. That is means and opportunity. 

As for motive, I believe that Arianne will marry Aegon and in order to pave the way for her cousin to become gueen, she will murder Tommen and so finally and irrevocably dissolve the Lannister-Tyrell alliance. 

On a side note the valonqar's hands that will be wrapped around Cersei's throat may refer to the murder weapon rather than the murderer. 

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5 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

 

On a side note the valonqar's hands that will be wrapped around Cersei's throat may refer to the murder weapon rather than the murderer. 

That makes me think, "Poor Jaime, he's going to lose his other hand too." Then someone's going to approach Cersei with both of Jaime's hands and a sneer on their face. That would be quite...farcical.

I'm guessing you had something different in mind?

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On 2/21/2018 at 11:38 AM, AmberEmpress said:

According to Maggy's prophecy all of Cersei's children will die young. With Joffrey dead, Myrcella already having an attempt on her life, only Tommen's seems safe behind the walls of the Red Keep.

How do you all think will he die? Will he live long enough to finally outlaw beets?

He will die in the next novel. Killed by Varys to pit cersei against the Tyrells 

 

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12 hours ago, Lluewhyn said:

That makes me think, "Poor Jaime, he's going to lose his other hand too." Then someone's going to approach Cersei with both of Jaime's hands and a sneer on their face. That would be quite...farcical.

I'm guessing you had something different in mind?

Tyrion's chain of office while he was acting hand. The one he strangled Shae with. It is described as a series of interlocking hands. 

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