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Marcus

Westeros M2:TW mod

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I've been trying to contact Marcus for almost a week, I hope everything is ok. I'm here, going nowhere and standing by. There are few things that have to be done:

1. Ran, can you PM me? I know, that you're busy, but can you find some time to contact me?

2. Did you, guys, read F.A.U.S.T.? If we want to start skinning units, we have to start discussing this seriously. Werthead, do you think that requires new thread? If so, let's have it.

EDIT. About resources: I recall, in RTW you can add new resources as well. Don't know if it's possible in MIITW, I'm not a coder. Also, we can add hidden resources. Example: Spear units, recruited in Sunspear would have valour bonus, etc.

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I think skinning units would require a seperate topic if it involves detailed technical discussions. It's not something I'm familiar with, sadly. Has anyone got in touch with that guy from the old Rome project who posted on the old board? He may be able to help out as well. I also think perhaps some more heavy-duty recruiting may be in order. I posted news about this mod on Totalwar.com but there hasn't been much of a response yet. The Wheel of Time: Total War guys also seemed interested and their mod seems to slowly be dying, so it may be an idea to try to recruit them as well if they decide to throw in the towel on their project (a shame because, as they said, WoT is ironically perhaps slightly better suited to the mechanics of Total War, although in a way which means tons more work than the Game of Thrones one would need).

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I've been trying to contact Marcus for almost a week, I hope everything is ok

Okay... I've seen both you and Marcus here today... any updates? Where do things stand?

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Well, slaves are illegal in Westeros, so that's out... as for spices, only Dorne comes to mind, with their fiery peppers.

... the problem is that many of the specialty resources seem to come from Dorne. I think that's partly to make them a bit more exotic. However, I suppose we can retain this flavor if we make each resources less valuable. Clearly the spices, Dornish yew, lemons, wine, etc. are all tradeable commodities, but not worth nearly so much as the gold in the Westerlands, iron in the Iron Isles... nor nearly so prevalent as the wheat in the Vale and Reach or the fruit in the Reach.

Okay, I'm moving the resource discussion to the maps thread, as it's more appropriate there.

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Has anyone got in touch with that guy from the old Rome project who posted on the old board? He may be able to help out as well.

That would have to be Turnleft, he was the main skinner from the old project. He had a lot of units skinned from Rome: Total War and said a long time back that he would work on this project but I haven't heard or seen anything from him in a while. The other guy would be theeyeoftyr, he was involved with the old project as well and wished everyone good luck and his support if needed. That post was made back on the original site.

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Hey guys, update from me.. I've been hard at work on the map files. Good news is I've essentially rebuilt the map from the ground up so to speak, working directly from the citadel's map with additional info from the map in the RPG sourcebook, and it's looking very good. Bad news is, I can't get it working in game :blush:

Chewie, if you could find some time to contact me via IM/PM/email and see if we can figure this thing out, that would be ideal. I've been troubleshooting for a couple days now, and I've corrected a number of errors that would definitely cause crashes, but still no dice.

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Curious... good luck getting the map to work... I'd love to see screenshots when you do.

Also note, I've moved the resources discussion to the map thread... since it seems that you're in charge of the map now, let me know if you've got any questions about it...

Yay! :D

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Marcus - As the lead coder on the project, I was wondering if you (or anyone else who knows) could answer a couple of questions...

Events - How much can we do with these? What hooks are there in the code that we could use? Can we alter a general's movement points with an event? Can we tweak the marriage system? I'm trying to come up with ways to give the game more of an ASOIAF flair, but the flexibility of the system will determine if it's possible.

As an example: Marriage. In the vanilla game, you accept marriage, and it takes effect at the end of the turn (beginning of the next turn? I'm not quite clear on that). Perhaps you could make it so that a marriage takes a couple of turns... it takes time to plan the details, throw the party, etc. So, if you accept a marriage, then the person who's getting married has his movement points reduced to zero for a couple of turns. Requires that the person stay static and not move. However, if you can accept a betrothal, then you can delay when that static period happens... but betrothals can be broken... at a cost of loyalty.

General's Characteristics: how much can we do with these? If we can alter a character's movement points, then perhaps we can work hostages into the system. When a general is captured (and not ransomed or executed), then they are held hostage. Their movement points are reduced to zero (preventing them from running away), and they are moved to the nearest city or castle... where they're treated as an agent (so that they don't take up a military unit spot?). They stay in this status until released at the option of party controlling the city/castle. Thus, they could be 'rescued' by having a rescuing party take the city or castle... or they could be released as part of diplomacy (if that option could be coded in).

Bribed Generals: When a general is bribed (or otherwise leaves your service), is it possible to have their home territory go neutral (or to that general's new faction)? Another thing would be that when a region goes rebel (or neutral, or to the enemy), all units built in that region would be pulled out of whatever current army they were part of, and into a new army of rebel or enemy designation. This way, if the Karstarks go rebel, you don't have armies full of Karstarks... and when Bolton turns traitor, you no longer have access to Karhold.

I'll add some more thoughts on this later...

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is this mod dead? I mean i haven't heard anything new forever. I mean is Turnleft working on skinning the units, the map is done which is great and what resources for each faction has been pretty much finalized. The cultures of each faction and what MII:TW factions represent best what factions in ASOIAF are decided, but thats it, nothing new. So is it dead or what?

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is this mod dead? I mean i haven't heard anything new forever. I mean is Turnleft working on skinning the units, the map is done which is great and what resources for each faction has been pretty much finalized. The cultures of each faction and what MII:TW factions represent best what factions in ASOIAF are decided, but thats it, nothing new. So is it dead or what?

Plenty of conversation over in the Units thread including the mod leader and mod skinner so no, I don't think it's dead.

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To add to my list of unanswered questions, how does M2TW handle supply? Or does it not? From my limited play time, it seems that, so long as you've got funding to pay for troop maintenance, your troops are okay... even if they're surrounded by the enemy, in a desert, with no access to anything other than sand.

If that's the model we're stuck with, then I suppose we'll have to deal. But ideally, I'd like to see the ability to play scorched earth, burning lands to keep enemies from foraging. I'd like to see the ability to raid supply lines, and harass an army without confronting it.

It seems that we can create new retinue figures... can we create/modify agents as well? If so, perhaps we create an 'Outrider' agent... you use these agents by attaching them to an opposing army, like a spy. They both feed you information of the armies location and makeup, but also reduce the enemy army's view of the surrounding area, and increase their maintenance costs (by attacking supply trains and such). Better outriders increase the 'fog of war', and increase the maintenance costs more.

Another thought dealing with supply... if an army is in the field, it either increases the troop maintenance cost, or the castles in the region produce less income. Or perhaps both. Perhaps an army in enemy territory has reduced maintenance costs, as it forages for supplies... when this happens, the income produced by the invaded region drops, squalor goes up, and so on. To counter this, perhaps both castles and towns can build a 1-turn 'building' that represents a scorched earth policy... a one time boon in income, offset by a very long-term penalty in income... however, invading armies can't forage, and their maintenance cost *increases*.

Thoughts?

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To follow up on the Outrider idea:

Assuming it's possible to create a new Agent based on the 'Outrider', is it possible to modify their stats based on their location and terrain? I.e., outriders should be more effective on home territory than abroad in enemy territory. They know the lay of the land, they know where to hide, where to launch ambushes, etc. Also, different terrains should provide different bonuses to outriders. From small bonus to large bonus: forest, desert, swamp, mountain.

This way, the Dornish can cause serious problems for anyone invading Dorne... attach some Outriders to the invading army, and that army won't be able to see any enemy units in the area, and the cost of their maintenance will go way up. Makes it very difficult to invade, especially since the terrain provides such bonuses to the outriders. By relying on the terrain, we find that the Dornish don't necessarily need inherent bonuses to their Outriders.

In the Vale, getting past the Mountains of the Moon is difficult... but after that, the Vale of Arryn is ripe to be plucked. And the Reach... oh, the Reach has problems defending. The terrain really does hamper their defense with Outriders...

Conversely, Outriders raised at Greywater Watch, pestering armies in the Neck would be pretty devastating. Look at what they'd do to the troops at Moat Cailin. :)

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Again, I remember some nice features from MTW1, where fleets had their supply cost rise drastically the further they got from a friendly port.

Conversely, Outriders raised at Greywater Watch, pestering armies in the Neck would be pretty devastating. Look at what they'd do to the troops at Moat Cailin.
I thought it'd be easier to model this by having constant loyalist (or normal rebel) parties of a unique unit spawning. They'd be excellent skirmishers, with the ability to hide anywhere, and so forth. If possible, the Neck should be the swampiest and hardest place for formations to stay together on the map, so small bands of fast skirmisher infantry should be lethal. I'd like it if cavalry was slowed to the speed of infantry there. If the only way to model this is a "penalties in swamps" ability then so be it.

My question is about seiges. Is it possible to change the rate that casualties are inflicted during a standing seige?

And, a general comment about the mod in general. I'd prefer to make taking cities relatively easy, and castles, too, should be easier. As it is now, MTW2 seems to turn to Siege:Total War fairly quickly. The majority of battles are fought in cities (or outside it as they sally) and I'd like to see more open battlefields.

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Hmmm... the problem that I see there is that you'd be constantly forced to participate in these tiny little battles. And from a realism (and book accuracy) standpoint, these groups aren't dumb enough to attack the army proper. The Young Dragon talks about the Dornish raiding his supply lines, harassing the rear-guard, and doing things like that. They don't attack the army, they harass it.

I don't know... maybe spawning small skirmisher units is the way to go. But I'd imagine that they'd rarely be effective, and would just function to slow things down. Personally, I'd get very frustrated if I had to constantly fight little battles... whether I was the one defending or attacking.

Conversely, I think one of the special units available to the North at Greywater Watch should be Crannogman units, with movement bonuses in swamps and bogs, and devastating ranged attacks (to approximate poisoned darts and such). But I don't see them randomly spawning... they should be units raised by the controller of Greywater Watch, and directed as needed.

Finally, on sieges. I understand the draw of fighting the enemy in the field. However, recall Ser Jorah's comments to Dany: most lords would just retreat behind their walls, and the Dothraki would move elsewhere... it's a few lords like Robert Baratheon who'd come out and face the screamers. Recall most of the battles we've seen or heard of: to my recollection, only the Trident and the Battle of the Green Fork were in the open... and the Whispering Wood as well, though that was an ambush pulling troops away from a siege. But the Battle of the Camps, the Blackwater, Battle of the Bells, the Captures of the Shield Islands, Dany's battles, Robb taking the Crag and Ashemark... all are sieges, or attacks on sieging armies.

Perhaps we can tweak the AI on NPC commanders, so that some are more likely to seek out combat in the field, while others prefer to sit in castles and be besieged?

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I meant that they'd randomly spawn if it was controlled by hostile units. Basically set the rebellion rate in Greywater really high to anyone but the Starks.

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