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Marcus

Westeros M2:TW mod

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Blast. I've been doing some research, and I just realised something. Our faction selection for the game is fine, however did we weigh enough when we choose culture? Culture can still be changed, luckily. Architectually, we chose correctly. However, portrait-wise, did we make the right decision? Each culture has its own set of portraits. To that effect, all of Westeros will use the same portraits, with Stannis having his own set, and Martell having their own set. Is this correct? Is it feasible that the remainder of Westeros looks relatively the same? My concern was the North and the Wildlings. We could put Stannis back to Northern European, and make the North southern or eastern. The buildings aren't too different....I don't know. The whole thing just hit me. Thoughts?

Character portraits you mean? Here at Westeros we all thought using amoka portraits would be best. If you can import the portraits into the game, it's a godsend. They've literally depicted every major character in the series. Just google 'amoka' if you've never heard of it. I think you'll be quite pleased. If you can't import them, then I'm not quite sure what we can do. We might have to take faces from the culture character pools and approximating the closest resemblance based on the books.

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Yes, we plan on using those portraits. However, with the cultures as they are now, all of Westeros is in the same pool. Ie, every faction save Martell and Stannis are using the same portrait pool. Meaning greyjoy could get mainland pictures, and vice versa. I'm with Ran on this, would be it be more logical to put Greyjoy and the North in the eastern culture so they have their own set? And should Stannis be left with his own or ported back to the main group?

How does this sound:

Group 1:

Tully

Lannister

Tyrell

Arryn

Baratheon/Renly

Baratheon/Joffrey

Night's Watch

Group 2:

Greyjoy

Wildlings

Group 3:

Martell

Unknown:

Stark

Stannis

Should Stannis still be given his own group? And as for Starks, should they be pooled with the wilder-looking people, or be left with the more refined southrons? I'll try to find screenshots for examples.

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After some more digging in the text files, Northern, Southern and Greek cultures all draw from one picture pool. Therefore, we can give Stannis the altered architecture and still the faction appear correctly. Opinions welcome, I'm off to look at the eastern portraits to check the "hairiness" :P

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Okay, checked. No full beards, but easterns are more prone to facial hair, and some have fur trimmed cloaks. Eastern would be perfect for Stark.

So, what do we do? Do we put Stark, Greyjoy and Wildlings together? Do we give Stark its own and put Greyjoy and Wildings together? Help me out, please.

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Okay, just completed some test modding. All cultures can be given their own portraits.

This means that Northern Europeans as well as Greek can be given pictures different from Southerns. So we have Northern, Southern, Eastern, and Greek to play with. Martell can stay as Middle east, they're seperate and that's fine.

Northern should be given to the main group of Westeros, as that'as the correct architecture.

Southern, Eastern and Greek are all deviations off of this.

So, how do we group the factions? Aside from Dorne, we have four possible groupings.

Discuss.

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A comment on the previous issue of alliences/ spliting factions. There is a way in the files to make it so that that ai will be far more likely to take a certain stance toward another faction. For example, in normal M2, it it set to that byzantium will almost always go to war with turky, as will spain and the moors. Otherwise, scottland and France are slightly mo0re likely to form an allience. If you kept factions seperate, and made a high probablity for a positive relation, it might work. Or if there is a way for factions to start as a client, that might work on some of the relations

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Yes, I was aware of that. I havent yet found which file this is, but then again I havent benn looking all that hard ;) Cultures have been my main issue lately.

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It's at the bottom of descr_strat

And as to cultures, I agree that the norther factions in the mod would look great with eastern european culture

The area north of Dorne (Tyrell, Kings Landing, maye the Lannister lands), I can see in anything but eastern european

Other that that, I think Northern European culture would fit best on most of the factions

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Thanks for your input. What's your opinion on Tullys and Arryns?

Also, should Greyjoy/Stark/Wildlings all be one culture or should we split it into a group of 2 and one?

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Tullys should be Northern European, Arryns could maybe be South European or Greek. but probably Northern European.

As for the northern factions, (Stark WIldings, Greyjoy), Greyjoy more different than the other two, and ther are substacial differences between Wildings and Stark, however, eastern cultre would be best in my opinion. For greyjoy, it's between Northern European and Eastern European.

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How about this then:

Group 1- Northern

Tully

Lannister

Tyrell

Arryn

Baratheon/Renly

Baratheon/Joffrey

Baratheon/Stannis

Night's Watch

Group 2- Middle East

Dorne

Group 3-Eastern

Greyjoy

Group 4-Greek

Wildlings

Group 5-Southern

Stark

This way, the main parts of Westeros are all uniform, with the North, South, and Iron Islands all having their own pictures and buildings.

Yes/no? Different ideas?

Edit: Each seperate culture would be modded to give them their own buildings and portraits and would not remain the way they are now.

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I'd go something like this:

Group 1- Northern

Tully

Lannister

Tyrell

Arryn

Baratheon/Renly

Baratheon/Joffrey

Group 2- Middle East

Dorne

Group 3-Eastern

Greyjoy

Stark

Night's Watch

Group 4-Greek (but with Eastern-style portraits ATM -- the reason to split them off is that if new portrait images are imported into the mod, the wildlings will probably look a lot "rougher" [more fur and hair] than the rest)

Wildlings

Group 5-Southern European (Mainly just for the architecture)

Baratheon/Stannis

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Marcus,i have few questions:

1.When will asoiaf mod be comleted(date,please)?

2.Will there be any battles from asoiaf?And if there will be some,how many units will be in there?

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1. Unknown. It'll be done when it's done. Don't expect a release for a few months though, and even then it'll likely only be the map.

2. Historical battles? Yes, however, that's a long way off. How many units? I dont completely understand this question. each faction will have around twenty units, if that's what you mean.

I'd go something like this:

Group 1- Northern

Tully

Lannister

Tyrell

Arryn

Baratheon/Renly

Baratheon/Joffrey

Group 2- Middle East

Dorne

Group 3-Eastern

Greyjoy

Stark

Night's Watch

Group 4-Greek (but with Eastern-style portraits ATM -- the reason to split them off is that if new portrait images are imported into the mod, the wildlings will probably look a lot "rougher" [more fur and hair] than the rest)

Wildlings

Group 5-Southern European (Mainly just for the architecture)

Baratheon/Stannis

Seems fine to me. Yes/no? Werthead?

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2. Historical battles? Yes, however, that's a long way off. How many units? I dont completely understand this question. each faction will have around twenty units, if that's what you mean.

Well,you can`t make battles with 50.000 units.So how many(in numbers)units will be there in some battle.For example:

10.000 Starks

24.000 Lannisters

Will there be 1000 Starks and 2400 Lannisters or 2000 Starks and 4800 Lannisters or what...

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Ah. Understand you now. Because of the gap in people's computers, we will likely release a high/low option for historical battles, one with, say, 4000 units (total) and one with around 8000.

As for in the campaign, it is unlikely we will get numbers this high, as the maximum men in a unit is 150, but I dont know if this is hardcoded.

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Seems fine to me. Yes/no? Werthead?

Sounds good to me!

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Okay. Cultures decided. Now, onto unit rosters.

First, please only constructive discussion. Arguing the accuracy of a unit merely because you want faction X to have it will only make this whole thing longer to accomplish. This part is going to be something that needs the most research, or trips to the Concordance ;)

So, our factions:

Stark

Tully

Lannister

Arryn

Tyrell

Greyjoy

Martell

Baratheon/Joffrey

Baratheon/Stannis

Baratheon/Renly

Wildlings

Night's Watch

Others:

Rebels

Mercenaries

So, because of the faction selection of the first release, vassal houses will add their units to their leige. This means that, for example:

All houses in the North will contribute to the Stark unit roster, not just the powers of Stark specifically.

Note on "others". Rebels and Mercenaries apply for each faction and region. So, another example:

In the Stark regions, one may find the rebel unit "Night's Watch Deserters". I don't know about many mercenaries in the North, but that's beside the point. When we discuss each region, please include any knowledge of mercs and rebels, for organization simplcity, even though they will be different factions.

Next, zones of recuitment. This will be how the vassal houses are "in" the first release. Specialty units that can only be found in one place will be recruited using this system. It basically stipulates that: Unit X can only be recruited at Castle Y and only if Factions T, U, or V holds aforementioned Castle Y.

For a better example:

Crannogmen will only be recruitable at Greywater Watch, and only if Stark or Tully holds that settlement. This means that if Stark loses that province, they lose that unit, but it also means if, say Lannister take the settlement, they won't be able to use the crannogmen against the North. So, if you know of any units that should be incorporated into the Zone of recuitment (Heretoforth called ZoR) system, please speak up.

Now, how we're going to organize the chaos of unit selection. First, we will go from most known factions and regions to least known, in order to allow our skinners to work as we finish the easier factions.

Within each faction/region, it will be broken down into several segments.

1) All knowledge of the faction in Westeros context will be compiled

2) A rough formulation of units will be created ie:Crossbowmen, light infantry, heavy knights, etc

3) List from 2 will be incorporated with either A) Units existing in M2 or B) New units if no unit from M2 will serve our purpose.

Without further ado, we'll begin with the Westerlands and Lannister. Happy discussions :)

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