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Hi everyone its been a long time since I have been here but here I am and here I surmise....

Ive been thinking about waking the stone dragon and im not sure if this has been discussed before but could it be possible that Aegon is the stone dragon.

My line of thinking is  JonCon has greyscale which is contagious. He and Aegon have spent a lot of time together and its not within the realms of plausibility that Aegon catches greyscale from JonCon. Aegon being a Targ also means he's a Dragon. Waking the dragon could be considered as Aegon becoming aware. Any thoughts on this.

 

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On 2/26/2018 at 10:58 AM, the Eternal Champion said:

Hi everyone its been a long time since I have been here but here I am and here I surmise....

Ive been thinking about waking the stone dragon and im not sure if this has been discussed before but could it be possible that Aegon is the stone dragon.

My line of thinking is  JonCon has greyscale which is contagious. He and Aegon have spent a lot of time together and its not within the realms of plausibility that Aegon catches greyscale from JonCon. Aegon being a Targ also means he's a Dragon. Waking the dragon could be considered as Aegon becoming aware. Any thoughts on this.

How would it fit into the plot? 

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The grammar in the book is very specific:

In ADWD, Jon X, Mel says to Jon: 'When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone' (emboldening by me).

Notice the plural form.

So Aegon can not be 'the' (as in: one and one only) stone dragon.

In conclusion I am with you insofar as it is theoretically possible that Aegon may be one (of several) dragons meant by prophecy. However when the OP states 'the' stone dragon and talks about waking 'the' stone dragon then no. That goes against the text. Multiple dragons are being spoken of, not one.

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On 2/26/2018 at 7:58 AM, the Eternal Champion said:

Ive been thinking about waking the stone dragon and im not sure if this has been discussed before but could it be possible that Aegon is the stone dragon.

My line of thinking is  JonCon has greyscale which is contagious. He and Aegon have spent a lot of time together and its not within the realms of plausibility that Aegon catches greyscale from JonCon. Aegon being a Targ also means he's a Dragon. Waking the dragon could be considered as Aegon becoming aware. Any thoughts on this.

The "stone dragon" was Dany's petrified eggs. As mel says, only king's blood can wake the stone dragon, and Drogo was killed and burned, and Dany's eggs hatched 

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13 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The "stone dragon" was Dany's petrified eggs. As mel says, only king's blood can wake the stone dragon, and Drogo was killed and burned, and Dany's eggs hatched 

The prophecies have become garbled over the millenia. Plural and singular have become mixed up, as have the references to princes and princesses, and other aspects thereof.

Mellisandre's prophecy about waking dragons from stone is likely the same prophecy as the great stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

Just like one version says Azor Ahai will be born beneath a bleeding star, and another says:

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

Singular and plural cannot be taken at face value, anymore than anything else in these prophecies and visions. So no, it does not necessarily refer to Dany's stone eggs. My view is that it refers both to Dany's stone eggs, and to events yet to come which Jon will trigger, as they both share portions of the prophecy. But Jon will be the final fullfilment thereof, while Dany was kind of "preparing the way" for his coming.

EDIT

I of course like the version where the word "star' is merely the garbled version of "Stark", meaning "Azor Ahai was born beneath a bleeding Stark". But hey, that's just my preference.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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8 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Mellisandre's prophecy about waking dragons from stone is likely the same prophecy as the great stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

:agree:  Further Davos refers to it as waking the 'great dragon' which sounds different from hatching dragon eggs.
 

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Davos V

"There are no gods save R'hllor and the Other, whose name must not be spoken." Melisandre's mouth made a hard red line. "And small men curse what they cannot understand."

"I am a small man," Davos admitted, "so tell me why you need this boy Edric Storm to wake your great stone dragon, my lady." He was determined to say the boy's name as often as he could.

 

 It sounds like it's the great dragon that will battle the Other in Melisandre's mythos. The question is what is a great dragon and what is shadow fire?  A smoking tower sounds like a volcano perhaps with a connection to Melisandre's interest in Dragonstone.  The place is said to be built with sorcery.

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Just to make a stupid comment on this issue (because I am known by now for stupid comments) 

42 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The "stone dragon" was Dany's petrified eggs. As mel says, only king's blood can wake the stone dragon, and Drogo was killed and burned, and Dany's eggs hatched 

 

the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone

The prophecy says that someone will be born under certain circumstances to do a thing. So either Dany is born on Dragonstone under salt and smoke but without the bleeding star(s). Or she is reborn when she wakes her dragons and when the star(s) bleed. So far so good. however

AA is not reborn at the same time as he/she wakes dragons out of stone. AA has the task to wake dragons out of stone or

AA is reborn in order for the stone dragon awakening to work.It is part of the ritual.

In either case it was either Dany's kingsblood or Dany yet has to wake dragons out of stone. (Because she was not born under a bleeding star on Dragonstone).

 

Edited by SirArthur

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18 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

The prophecies have become garbled over the millenia. Plural and singular have become mixed up, as have the references to princes and princesses, and other aspects thereof.

Prophecy is never obvious 

18 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Mellisandre's prophecy about waking dragons from stone is likely the same prophecy as the great stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

Not at all. Waking dragons from stone is their hatching. The great stone beast is probably JonCon spreading greyscale around the stormlands. The disease is destructive, and unseen. 

20 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Just like one version says Azor Ahai will be born beneath a bleeding star, and another says:

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

This makes no sense. They say the same thing, but hte second quote is more elaborate

21 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Singular and plural cannot be taken at face value, anymore than anything else in these prophecies and visions. So no, it does not necessarily refer to Dany's stone eggs. My view is that it refers both to Dany's stone eggs, and to events yet to come which Jon will trigger, as they both share portions of the prophecy. But Jon will be the final fullfilment thereof, while Dany was kind of "preparing the way" for his coming.

Prophecy usually has multiple possible meanings in the story, and while there may be more, dany's eggs were described as petrified. So while there may be another interpretation, dany's eggs fit perfectly. 

23 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I of course like the version where the word "star' is merely the garbled version of "Stark", meaning "Azor Ahai was born beneath a bleeding Stark". But hey, that's just my preference.

Could be 
 

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5 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

This makes no sense. They say the same thing, but hte second quote is more elaborate

 

What I was demonstrating is that in one version it refers to a single red star, and in another to multiple stars bleeding.

Similarly, you see the term of "dragons (plural) being woken from stone" as a reference to Dany's eggs, to which I was pointing out that there are also prophecies refering to single stone beasts being woken. So it is not clear at all that Dany's eggs are being referenced. We don't know which version of the prophecy is the correct one.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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19 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

Just to make a stupid comment on this issue (because I an known by now for stupid comments) 

 

the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone

The prophecy says that someone will be born under certain circumstances to do a thing. So either Dany is born on Dragonstone under salt and smoke but without the bleeding star(s). Or she is reborn when she wakes her dragons and when the star(s) bleed. So far so good. however

AA is not reborn at the same time as he/she wakes dargons out of stone. AA has the task to wake dragons out of stone or

AA is reborn in order for the stone dragon awakening to work.It is part of the ritual.

In either case it was either Dany's kingsblood or Dany yet has to wake dragons out of stone. (Because she was not born under a bleeding star on Dragonstone).

Yeah that's not stupid at all.  Dany is the one who wakes the dragon before hatching eggs from stone:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys II

Yet that night she dreamt of one. Viserys was hitting her, hurting her. She was naked, clumsy with fear. She ran from him, but her body seemed thick and ungainly. He struck her again. She stumbled and fell. "You woke the dragon," he screamed as he kicked her. "You woke the dragon, you woke the dragon." Her thighs were slick with blood. She closed her eyes and whimpered. As if in answer, there was a hideous ripping sound and the crackling of some great fire. When she looked again, Viserys was gone, great columns of flame rose all around, and in the midst of them was the dragon. It turned its great head slowly. When its molten eyes found hers, she woke, shaking and covered with a fine sheen of sweat. She had never been so afraid...

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

This really can't be Drogon or Drogo's soul from the black egg since he dies much later.  But I do think it is a soul contained in the black egg that Dany wakes from the dead.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

"I hit him," she said, wonder in her voice. Now that it was over, it seemed like some strange dream that she had dreamed. "Ser Jorah, do you think … he'll be so angry when he gets back …" She shivered. "I woke the dragon, didn't I?"

Ser Jorah snorted. "Can you wake the dead, girl? Your brother Rhaegar was the last dragon, and he died on the Trident. Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake."

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys III

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

This doesn't sound like the battle that Robert won but perhaps something yet to be.  How can these be Dany's memories?

Edited by LynnS

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8 minutes ago, LynnS said:

This really can't be Drogon or Drogo's soul from the black egg since he dies much later.  But I do think it is a soul contained in the black egg that Dany wakes from the dead.

That is a good find. And it kind of supports the idea of Dany dying in the fire as part of the ritual. 

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1 hour ago, SirArthur said:

That is a good find. And it kind of supports the idea of Dany dying in the fire as part of the ritual. 

She is reborn on the sea:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion II

"Viserys was Mad Aerys's son, just so. Daenerys … Daenerys is quite different." He popped a roasted lark into his mouth and crunched it noisily, bones and all. "The frightened child who sheltered in my manse died on the Dothraki sea, and was reborn in blood and fire. This dragon queen who wears her name is a true Targaryen. When I sent ships to bring her home, she turned toward Slaver's Bay. In a short span of days she conquered Astapor, made Yunkai bend the knee, and sacked Meereen. Mantarys will be next, if she marches west along the old Valyrian roads. If she comes by sea, well … her fleet must take on food and water at Volantis."

 

 

Edited by LynnS

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1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Yeah that's not stupid at all.  Dany is the one who wakes the dragon before hatching eggs from stone:

This really can't be Drogon or Drogo's soul from the black egg since he dies much later.  But I do think it is a soul contained in the black egg that Dany wakes from the dead.

This doesn't sound like the battle that Robert won but perhaps something yet to be.  How can these be Dany's memories?

This is a glimpse of Dany's future... at this point an event in ADOS.

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On 22.3.2018 at 8:16 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

[snip]

Mellisandre's prophecy about waking dragons from stone is likely the same prophecy as the great stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

[snip]

 

No need to mix things up: We have pretty clear candidates for both the waking of dragons (plural!) from stone and the stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire. And these candidates are not the same.

1. As has already been pointed out: We have the actual awakening of three dragons from stone eggs. It cannot get any more literal than that. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - you get my meaning.

2. We also have (in another scene) an actual great stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower - coupled with shadow fire. GRRM has hidden this one better so it usually gets overlooked. But it is there nevertheless - and also quite literal. No need to mess with the grammar by claiming plural and singular don't matter (they do!) or to make two different prophecies into one because you don't find the stone beast scene.

(Read the burning of Winterfell scene CoK chapter 69 Bran VII  (both as watched through Summer's eyes as Bran & party strolling through the burned castle afterwards carefully. Pay attention to the details, particularly see if you can spot stone beasts, see what is up there and falls and gets found later. Then compare with ADwD chapter 41 'The Turncloak' and find out what's poking out of the snow, staring at the sky right there at the entrance to the crypts of Winterfell.)

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25 minutes ago, Amris said:

No need to mix things up: We have pretty clear candidates for both the waking of dragons (plural!) from stone and the stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire. And these candidates are not the same.

1. As has already been pointed out: We have the actual awakening of three dragons from stone eggs. It cannot get any more literal than that. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - you get my meaning.

2. We also have (in another scene) an actual great stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower - coupled with shadow fire. GRRM has hidden this one better so it usually gets overlooked. But it is there nevertheless - and also quite literal. No need to mess with the grammar by claiming plural and singular don't matter (they do!) or to make two different prophecies into one because you don't find the stone beast scene.

(Read the burning of Winterfell scene CoK chapter 69 Bran VII  (both as watched through Summer's eyes as Bran & party strolling through the burned castle afterwards carefully. Pay attention to the details, particularly see if you can spot stone beasts, see what is up there and falls and gets found later. Then compare with ADwD chapter 41 'The Turncloak' and find out what's poking out of the snow, staring at the sky right there at the entrance to the crypts of Winterfell.)

Can you be more specific please. Are you referring to a gargoyle that fell from Winterfell when it was burned? If so, that seems like a rather pointless event to have a vision for. And where is the shadow fire in that scenario? Most of all, why is it significant?

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On 3/22/2018 at 7:40 PM, Dorian Martell's son said:

Prophecy is never obvious 
 

Prophecy is always obvious but only in retrospect :D

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On 3/27/2018 at 2:55 AM, Amris said:

No need to mix things up: We have pretty clear candidates for both the waking of dragons (plural!) from stone and the stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire. And these candidates are not the same.

1. As has already been pointed out: We have the actual awakening of three dragons from stone eggs. It cannot get any more literal than that. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - you get my meaning.

2. We also have (in another scene) an actual great stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower - coupled with shadow fire. GRRM has hidden this one better so it usually gets overlooked. But it is there nevertheless - and also quite literal. No need to mess with the grammar by claiming plural and singular don't matter (they do!) or to make two different prophecies into one because you don't find the stone beast scene.

(Read the burning of Winterfell scene CoK chapter 69 Bran VII  (both as watched through Summer's eyes as Bran & party strolling through the burned castle afterwards carefully. Pay attention to the details, particularly see if you can spot stone beasts, see what is up there and falls and gets found later. Then compare with ADwD chapter 41 'The Turncloak' and find out what's poking out of the snow, staring at the sky right there at the entrance to the crypts of Winterfell.)

Isn't Jon Snow a leading candidate for both? 

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On ‎2018‎-‎03‎-‎22 at 0:16 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

The prophecies have become garbled over the millenia. Plural and singular have become mixed up, as have the references to princes and princesses, and other aspects thereof.

Mellisandre's prophecy about waking dragons from stone is likely the same prophecy as the great stone beast taking wing from a smoking tower, breathing shadow fire.

Just like one version says Azor Ahai will be born beneath a bleeding star, and another says:

"There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

Singular and plural cannot be taken at face value, anymore than anything else in these prophecies and visions. So no, it does not necessarily refer to Dany's stone eggs. My view is that it refers both to Dany's stone eggs, and to events yet to come which Jon will trigger, as they both share portions of the prophecy. But Jon will be the final fullfilment thereof, while Dany was kind of "preparing the way" for his coming.

EDIT

I of course like the version where the word "star' is merely the garbled version of "Stark", meaning "Azor Ahai was born beneath a bleeding Stark". But hey, that's just my preference.

"There will come a day after a long summer" - a long period of relative peace

"when the stars bleed" - Arthur Dayne bleeding as he lay dieing, also Ashara, who dies around this time as well

"cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world" - the end of the war and its aftermath

"In this dread hour a warrior" - Ned Stark as the man of the hour when Jon is born

"draw from the fire" - Lyanna Stark - she is the forge

"a burning sword" - Rhaegars child, Jon (drawing from the fire a burning sword is him being born)

"And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes" - Jon, as a heroic fighter

"he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again" - Daenarys, after she commands the loyalty of Jon

"the darkness shall flee before him" - Evil is defeated by Daenerys with Jon as her commander.

So: Daenerys is Azor Ahai and Jon is Lightbringer.

Edited by tugela

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6 hours ago, tugela said:

"There will come a day after a long summer" - a long period of relative peace

"when the stars bleed" - Arthur Dayne bleeding as he lay dieing, also Ashara, who dies around this time as well

"cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world" - the end of the war and its aftermath

"In this dread hour a warrior" - Ned Stark as the man of the hour when Jon is born

"draw from the fire" - Lyanna Stark - she is the forge

"a burning sword" - Rhaegars child, Jon (drawing from the fire a burning sword is him being born)

"And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes" - Jon, as a heroic fighter

"he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again" - Daenarys, after she commands the loyalty of Jon

"the darkness shall flee before him" - Evil is defeated by Daenerys with Jon as her commander.

So: Daenerys is Azor Ahai and Jon is Lightbringer.

So my hopes that she is the Great Other will be dashed then..

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