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Would Lady Stoneheart kill Roslin?


Angel Eyes

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I don't think she would recognize Roslin had not part in the RW. She was there and did nothing to prevent it. Regardless she couldn't do anything. IMO, LSH has not enough humanity left to spare Roslin. But I believe she would spare the baby. Delaying the execution until the birth if necessary.

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3 minutes ago, cpg2016 said:

Like Brienne?  Like Merrett Frey, murdered under a flag of truce?  Like the teenaged Petyr Frey?

The entire series is most certainly not people fighting over revenge.  And the ones who do (like Doran Martell) are shown to be flawed characters whose revenge plots are going to kill them, their families, and a lot of innocent people.

When you break guest right, you're kind of a fool to think that the 'flag of truce' is going to be respected, or that you should be pitied because you were played for a fool like you played the Starks.

Brienne legitimately looks guilty, it's only the audience who knows she is innocent, the evidence is pretty strong that she's a Lannister ally who betrayed her oath to Cat.

I expect Stoneheart to die at Brienne's hands, but I don't fault her for exacting revenge against the people who destroyed both of her families.

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11 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

She was there and did nothing to prevent it. Regardless she couldn't do anything.

All Ros had to do was talk and tell.

She would talk and what? The Frey would attack and kill every Northmen in the castle anyway. Those outside would have a better chance. If they knew in time what was happening.

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5 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

She would talk and what? The Frey would attack and kill every Northmen in the castle anyway. Those outside would have a better chance. If they knew in time what was happening.

As I said, Ros could talk and tell. Ros knew what was going to happen.

Point is kittycat ---- Ros did not disclose what she knew--- Ros is complaisant.

For some reason I do not think that the word complaisant is the word I was looking for.

Ros knew. Ros said nada. Yes, LSH is apt to whack her.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, BalerionTheCat said:

She would talk and what? The Frey would attack and kill every Northmen in the castle anyway. Those outside would have a better chance. If they knew in time what was happening.

There is no way to know what might have happened if the Starks were warned, they may have avoided catastrophe, Robb and Cat may have been saved, or everyone would have still died.  

But Roslin didn't warn anyone or even try, she played her part as assigned and for that she is culpable.

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11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

There is no way to know what might have happened if the Starks were warned, they may have avoided catastrophe, Robb and Cat may have been saved, or everyone would have still died.  

But Roslin didn't warn anyone or even try, she played her part as assigned and for that she is culpable.

Of course, we don't know. But the Frey were battle ready. Ready for Roslin blowing up the whistle. Not the Starks, after the bread and salt.

IIRC, Cat tried to talk to Roslin alone before the wedding. But she couldn't. The girl was closely monitored. She could have done like Olyvar, maybe. Refuse her part. But we don't know what happened to him. Maybe he tried to warn Robb and got killed or imprisoned.

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1 hour ago, cpg2016 said:

Well, the point GRRM is trying to make went over your head.  Hope you got a nice breeze as it whizzed by, at least.

Lady Stoneheart is meant to show the utter hollowness of being driven solely by revenge.  Her entire role is pretty clearly to be a foil to Arya, who is going to come back to Westeros looking to murder her way down her list.  I think she runs into Lady Stoneheart, sees what she's become, and turns aside to reunite with her family instead of pursuing revenge.  

Okay will comment on the whole thread later but yes, this is one of my possible predicted outcomes; that she is a plot device for Arya's arc, or failing that for Brienne and Jaime and that Ice (divided as it is now) will kill her for good, in any event it will be a great mercy.  I lost my mother a few years ago and hell if I were to have her back like that, much better with God or whoever to be honest!  I will reply to other comments too, especially Lord Varys' re her magical element etc.

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3 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

Well, the point GRRM is trying to make went over your head.  Hope you got a nice breeze as it whizzed by, at least.

Lady Stoneheart is meant to show the utter hollowness of being driven solely by revenge.  Her entire role is pretty clearly to be a foil to Arya, who is going to come back to Westeros looking to murder her way down her list.  I think she runs into Lady Stoneheart, sees what she's become, and turns aside to reunite with her family instead of pursuing revenge.  

How not to make a point: Insult the person as condescendingly as possible, then state your opinion as fact.

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1 hour ago, Kandrax said:

Why Elmar?

He's a Frey. Stoneheart is for Arya/Jaime/Brienne. Elmar was/is a little shithead and a Frey, but he doesn't deserve to die. Stoneheart won't be able to discern that but Arya will.

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On 3/12/2018 at 7:58 PM, Lord Lannister said:

How not to make a point: Insult the person as condescendingly as possible, then state your opinion as fact.

Obviously my opinion isn't a fact.  But unlike yours, it makes sense, both thematically and in a narrative sense.

And I'm not sure why your default position is that your opinion deserves respect, or to be taken seriously, when you make a bad argument.  GRRM didn't put a character (Catelyn Stark) into the story and spend a great deal of time humanizing us, showing us her intelligence and courage as well as her flaws and foibles, just so he could retroactively tear all that down.  It's a foolish thing to say and deserves to be called out as such.  Instead of skimming the surface of the character's actions, maybe try and dig a little deeper and see what the author is trying to communicate or accomplish by having the character behave that way.

If you are incapable of looking beyond the shallowest possible explanation, then yes, I will treat you as someone incapable of understanding a deeper argument - which will seem condescending.

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On 3/12/2018 at 4:46 PM, Cas Stark said:

When you break guest right, you're kind of a fool to think that the 'flag of truce' is going to be respected, or that you should be pitied because you were played for a fool like you played the Starks.

We are not meant to have this opinion, though.  The text is pretty clear, in multiple places, that despite the Frey's (and Lannisters, and Boltons) undermining the sanctity of guest right, decent people, people with whom we're meant to sympathize, still uphold it.  Which is why Yohn Royce is aghast at Lyn Corbray drawing his sword, why Jon Snow so scrupulously upholds it at Castle Black re: Cregan Karstark, and why Lord Blackwood, depicted as a noble and honorable man, is so correct in obeying the forms of guest right for Jaime at Raventree Hall.

Moreover, not every Frey was actively responsible for the Red Wedding, and LSH has no way of knowing which are which.  Her mindless quest for revenge is not meant to be read as justice or comeuppance for the Freys, it's supposed to be brutal and untargeted, harming innocents and guilty alike.  Contrast that with Stannis, who is very clear that he doesn't hold every Karstark man responsible for the treachery of Arnolf.

On 3/12/2018 at 4:46 PM, Cas Stark said:

Brienne legitimately looks guilty, it's only the audience who knows she is innocent, the evidence is pretty strong that she's a Lannister ally who betrayed her oath to Cat.

What evidence?  That she's carrying a Lannister sword?  That is literally the only evidence.  She isn't even given an opportunity to defend herself or explain, so lets not pretend like this is a trial, or an impartial parsing of evidence for or against Brienne's culpability.

 

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14 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

Frey was actively responsible for the Red Wedding, and LSH has no way of knowing which are which.  Her mindless quest for revenge is not meant to be read as justice or comeuppance for the Freys, it's supposed to be brutal and untargeted, harming innocents and guilty alike. 

Brotherhood always asks her is someone  guilty or not.

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