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Quentyn Martell is Alive?... Death and POV characters

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6 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

But when people argue

There are more than a few ways to interpret the word argue.

As in, I was doing the following:

give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.

I was not however expressing my opinion in the following way:

exchange or express diverging or opposite views, typically in a heated or angry way.

You can think Quent survived. I can think Quent got toasted.

 

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18 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

There are more than a few ways to interpret the word argue.

As in, I was doing the following:

give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.

I was not however expressing my opinion in the following way:

exchange or express diverging or opposite views, typically in a heated or angry way.

You can think Quent survived. I can think Quent got toasted.

You asked me a direct question and I tried to give you an answer to the question you asked.  What are you going on about now?  I'm genuinely confused.  Is there something else you wanted me to address?

Edited by Platypus Rex

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4 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

You asked me a direct question and I tried to give you an answer to the question you asked. 

Yep I did ask you a direct question. the question was, "Is the insinuation that because Dany didn't die Quent didn't die?"

5 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

What are you going on about now? 

Do you mean what am flapping my trap about? Weeeeeeeeel, I gave you a vocabulary definition of the word "argue" in which I was explaining my intent.

7 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

I'm genuinely confused.  Is there something else you wanted me to address?

Nope. I already typed you can believe Quent is alive and I can believe Quent is toast.

:laugh:

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1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Yep I did ask you a direct question. the question was, "Is the insinuation that because Dany didn't die Quent didn't die?"

Did I not answer you?

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10 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

No.  I believe that Quent is alive for other reasons.  But when people argue that he must be dead because he was engulphed in dragon fire, I respond by pointing out that the language used for this is almost exactly the same as language that has been used for Dany on a similar occasion.

Then you have certainly noticed that when Dany encounters "furnace wind", it is not the same as dragon fire. She ducks the fire that Drogon later spits on her. 

Later on, from her own account, we know that her hair burnt off but she is still wearing her undertunic, so unless the cloth was somehow fireproof, she was NEVER actually engulfed in fire in the Pit. She thinks she was unharmed by fire just like during the pyre event, happily ignoring the fact that her hands are blistered and her clothes unburnt, neither of which happened back then.

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On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 8:47 PM, sweetsunray said:

You do know what fire and heat does to sensibilities right?

https://www.healthline.com/health/burns#thirddegree-burn

 

I would buy this argument if his sensibilities were compromised in any way. But he is perfectly lucid the whole time, responding to his friends' call to turn around, shielding his face, focusing on the name of the other dragon because he is still thinking about taking one... all the while not noticing that he's on fire.

Others who have experienced dragonfire immediately start running, flailing, screaming. Why is not one else suffering this instant nerve damage?

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:42 AM, The Fattest Leech said:

Read that story to get the entire scene. I shared a small part for brevity sake. The mouth of the dragon ship opens and the girl is instantly engulfed in an elemental cold and she dies, giving an “oh” as her arm and the wired link (whip) all succumb to the “elements “. GRRM says in his own words that when he likes something he’s written, he feels free to use it again. He seems to like the way some characters are engulfed in whatever story element, and then die this way. 

 So, it’s not instant? And doesn’t Quentyn cover his eyes as it happens?  

Pffft, everyone knows GRRM doesn’t like dragons in real life. That’s why he donates to a wolf sanctuary and not a dragon sanctuary. Duh! 

The real world examples were the other posters in this thread sharing with you their experiences that happened to them.

Just like when I pulled a cast iron roasting pan out of the oven, put the pot holder down, did something else for a second, then turned back and grabbed a 450 degree handle and it took a second for the heat to register. Same when I wore shorts in a restaurant kitchen I worked at when I was younger and walked by an open oven door and gave myself a nice square scar that I still have. I heard the sizzle before the pain. 

Sorry, but themes and conversations from other books is one thing. Cold, hard facts from this book are quite another.

If covering his face with his arm is enough to shield his eyes, then how is it that his face melted off and his eyes turned to pus?

If there is a delay in feeling the heat of dragonfire, then why does no one else in the book who experiences it react the same way. They instantly start running, screaming, flailing...

 

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On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 7:17 AM, Ygrain said:

Eh, nope. This is before the fire hits him. His friends are not screaming in terror but shouting to warn him - it's hardly any use to scream "behind you" at a man already engulfed in flames, don't you think? What Quentyn feels is the dragon's hot breath when it roared before it spat fire, just like Dany felt it in the Pit when Drogon roared at her. The bricks are not being scorched at that moment but scorched and blackened already because it's the wall of a fire-breathing dragon nest. Quentyn doesn't see the moment when the fire is issued as he is only turning and shielding his eyes - note that he reminds himself that the green dragon is Rhaegal but he doesn't have the time to actually see the dragon, all he sees is the fire.

Sorry, but no. It is all one, long hot/furnace wind:

Quote

Quentyn turned and threw his left arm across his face to shield his eyes from the furnace wind.

The furnace wind. Not a new blast of wind, but the wind that has engulfed him all along. You are reaching wildly here. If this is just a roar, where are the ashes and cinders coming from? How on earth could he suddenly catch on fire but never notice the blast of fire that causes this to happen?

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 7:17 AM, Ygrain said:

No. Those are not three different looks, that's just registering three bits of information, written in a dramatic way that makes it seem longer than it really was because brain takes information in way faster than we can say or write it. There is barely half a second delay when Quentyn thinks "oh", and then he starts screaming.

One look but three dawning realizations all happening in sequence. Sorry, people, but if your whole body is aflame, you don't need to see it in order to realize it, regardless of whether this is the most extreme pain that fire can do.

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 7:17 AM, Ygrain said:

Because at that moment, he's not burning yet.

A to the extent of Quentyn's injuries:

"So much of the prince’s flesh had sloughed away that he could see the skull beneath. His eyes were pools of pus." We also know that his lips had burned off.

However, it is never stated that this was instantaneous damage occuring at the very moment when the fire hit him. He was set aflame, his clothes were burning. Yronwood sustained burns to his hands putting the fire out. Meaning, Quentyn was burning for a good while. His arm shielding his eyes protected them for that half a second needed to see that he was burning, no more.

Face it, YG, the dragonfire is the "hot wind" he first experiences. There is no other event between that and the burning whip, hand, body. He only reacts when he finally sees the fire. He never feels it.

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23 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

With all due respect, it is my opinion that the scene set the tempo for how dangerous dragon fire is. I'm not all into Targ history and such but what I've read is the Targs without dragon flame are powerless against an army of men who would revolt (Robert's Rebellion). As in why Aerys was so interested in wildfire production.

War --- power & control of the minions is about who is the larger threat --- who has the most destructive weapon.

If people want to believe Quent is alive. It is okay with me. Personally I think Quent is dead.

The point is that Dany has dragons, powerful flame blowing beasts. Granted that Dany's dragons (children) are not anywhere near what is depicted on screen and that at this point in the story she cannot control them.

The in story malice is that people want a dragon. Quent got burnt because he wanted tame a dragon. Vic wants a dragon. Euron wants a dragon. Due to the destruction that the dragons can cause some want the dragons dead.

None of that matters much as it relates to Quent's death. Except what is written ---

A Dance with Dragons - The Dragontamer      Two eyes rose up before him (the green one Rhaegal).     Bronze, they were, brighter than polished shields, glowing with their own heat, burning behind a veil of smoke rising from the dragon's nostrils. The light of Quentyn's torch washed over scales of dark green, the green of moss in the deep woods at dusk, just before the last light fades. Then the dragon opened its mouth, and light and heat washed over them. Behind a fence of sharp black teeth he glimpsed the furnace glow, the shimmer of a sleeping fire a hundred times brighter than his torch. The dragon's head was larger than a horse's, and the neck stretched on and on, uncoiling like some great green serpent as the head rose, until those two glowing bronze eyes were staring down at him./

There it is, martin's description of what Quent faced.

Martin goes on to describe Viserion.

A Dance with Dragons - The Dragontamer     Viserion. Yes. Where is Viserion? The prince lowered his torch to throw some light into the gloom below. He could see the green dragon ripping at the smoking carcass of the sheep, his long tail lashing from side to side as he ate. A thick iron collar was visible about his neck, with three feet of broken chain dangling from it. Shattered links were strewn across the floor of the pit amongst the blackened bones—twists of metal, partly melted. Rhaegal was chained to the wall and floor the last time I was here, the prince recalled, but Viserion hung from the ceiling. Quentyn stepped back, lifted the torch, craned his head back.     For a moment he saw only the blackened arches of the bricks above, scorched by dragonflame. A trickle of ash caught his eye, betraying movement. Something pale, half-hidden, stirring. He's made himself a cave, the prince realized. A burrow in the brick. The foundations of the Great Pyramid of Meereen were massive and thick to support the weight of the huge structure overhead; even the interior walls were three times thicker than any castle's curtain walls. But Viserion had dug himself a hole in them with flame and claw, a hole big enough to sleep in.    And we've just woken him. He could see what looked like some huge white serpent uncoiling inside the wall, up where it curved to become the ceiling. More ash went drifting downward, and a bit of crumbling brick fell away. The serpent resolved itself into a neck and tail, and then the dragon's long horned head appeared, his eyes glowing in the dark like golden coals. His wings rattled, stretching./

That is part of the description as Quent enters into the dragon lair inside the pyramid. Reads pretty ominous to me.

So, Quent desires and Quent decides he is gonna be a dragon tamer. He talks to the dragons. Then some one let loose with a quarrel (arrow). The dragon chomped down on the bowman.

A Dance with Dragons - The Dragontamer     And then a hot wind buffeted him and he heard the sound of leathern wings and the air was full of ash and cinders and a monstrous roar went echoing off the scorched and blackened bricks and he could hear his friends shouting wildly. Gerris was calling out his name, over and over, and the big man was bellowing, "Behind you, behind you, behind you!"    Quentyn turned and threw his left arm across his face to shield his eyes from the furnace wind. Rhaegal, he reminded himself, the green one is Rhaegal./

Since I have not died nor faced near death I do not know what flashes in the the mind of a dying person but this is what Quent via martin thinks ---  "When he raised his whip, he saw that the lash was burning. His hand as well. All of him, all of him was burning.   Oh, he thought. Then he began to scream."

Quent tried to get himself a dragon and Quent got toasted.

:grouphug:

All well and good, except the facts indicate otherwise. The dragon is breathing fire on Quent and all he experiences is "hot wind." His friends are screaming at him to turn around, which he does. So much for shock. He is now facing "the furnace wind", the same wind he's been surrounded by this whole time, and still he does not notice it's fire. In fact, he's still concentrating on his objective to secure a dragon -- again, so much for shock. It's only when he finally looks at himself does he finally realize he is on fire, and this is happening even though his eyeballs are being turned to mush.

I have experienced something similar. When I was nine or ten, we were camping at a lake and my father was emptying the last few drops of kerosene into the campfire (Don't ask me why; it's just men with fire). Then he took the canister and squeezed it and a huge gout of fumes and embers arced out of the fire all over me. I was up in an instant and running straight for the lake. I don't think I was ever on fire, but I had embers on my face and in my hair. But I also didn't need to sit and think about it for a while and look at my arms and legs to see if I was OK or be told what to do. I was running on pure instinct. As Richard Pryor said, we should light our Olympic sprinters on fire before each race because it has a way of motivating you to run. There is simply no way Quentyn should not have known that "all of him" or even half of him, or just his hand, was on fire.

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2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

The dragon is breathing fire on Quent and all he experiences is "hot wind."

The hot wind happens before Quent is toasted or broiled. Stay wit me.

If a person were to notice, Quent and his merry band of men are in the bowels of a pyramid. I suppose the pyramid is made of some sort of rock or brick. An oven so to speak. Hot and toasty when heated by dragon fire. I would think that the dragons might be a tad bit angry about being locked down there. They might even spit some fire while trying to get out.

When Rhaegal opened his mouth the light (brightness) and heat washed over Quent. The heat emitting naturally from the dragons kept down in the bowels of the pyramid.  Behind the sharp black sharp teeth Quent saw what he describes as a furnace glow --- I'll equate that furnace glow to magma --- hot.

A Dance with Dragons - The Dragontamer      Two eyes rose up before him (the green one Rhaegal).     Bronze, they were, brighter than polished shields, glowing with their own heat, burning behind a veil of smoke rising from the dragon's nostrils. The light of Quentyn's torch washed over scales of dark green, the green of moss in the deep woods at dusk, just before the last light fades. Then the dragon opened its mouth, and light and heat washed over them. Behind a fence of sharp black teeth he glimpsed the furnace glow, the shimmer of a sleeping fire a hundred times brighter than his torch. The dragon's head was larger than a horse's, and the neck stretched on and on, uncoiling like some great green serpent as the head rose, until those two glowing bronze eyes were staring down at him./

2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

The dragon is breathing fire on Quent and all he experiences is "hot wind."

I equate the "hot wind" to dragons flappin' their wings down in the bowels of the pyramid that is now an oven --- hot. As in whena person opens an oven door and forgets to back up --- a blast of hot air hits ya in da face.

2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

His friends are screaming at him to turn around, which he does.

One dragon is snacking on a sheep. Quent had forgotten about Viserion and what Viserion was up to. Viserion didn't have a snack to keep him/her busy.

2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

So much for shock.

I got nuttin to say about shock. As for "furnace wind" --- I suppose the pyramid is made of brick or rock, heated and charred by dragon fire --- the dragon flaps its wings thereby producing hot wind (furnace wind).

Yes, after being hit with a wave of dragon fire Quent realizes he is afire.

I'll include martin's words again in case anyone missed it. Because Viserion ain't chained to the wall no more.

A Dance with Dragons - The Dragontamer     Viserion. Yes. Where is Viserion? The prince lowered his torch to throw some light into the gloom below. He could see the green dragon ripping at the smoking carcass of the sheep, his long tail lashing from side to side as he ate. A thick iron collar was visible about his neck, with three feet of broken chain dangling from it. Shattered links were strewn across the floor of the pit amongst the blackened bones—twists of metal, partly melted. Rhaegal was chained to the wall and floor the last time I was here, the prince recalled, but Viserion hung from the ceiling. Quentyn stepped back, lifted the torch, craned his head back.     For a moment he saw only the blackened arches of the bricks above, scorched by dragonflame. A trickle of ash caught his eye, betraying movement. Something pale, half-hidden, stirring. He's made himself a cave, the prince realized. A burrow in the brick. The foundations of the Great Pyramid of Meereen were massive and thick to support the weight of the huge structure overhead; even the interior walls were three times thicker than any castle's curtain walls. But Viserion had dug himself a hole in them with flame and claw, a hole big enough to sleep in.    And we've just woken him. He could see what looked like some huge white serpent uncoiling inside the wall, up where it curved to become the ceiling. More ash went drifting downward, and a bit of crumbling brick fell away. The serpent resolved itself into a neck and tail, and then the dragon's long horned head appeared, his eyes glowing in the dark like golden coals. His wings rattled, stretching./

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

I have experienced something similar. When I was nine or ten, we were camping at a lake and my father was emptying the last few drops of kerosene into the campfire (Don't ask me why; it's just men with fire). Then he took the canister and squeezed it and a huge gout of fumes and embers arced out of the fire all over me. I was up in an instant and running straight for the lake. I don't think I was ever on fire, but I had embers on my face and in my hair. But I also didn't need to sit and think about it for a while and look at my arms and legs to see if I was OK or be told what to do. I was running on pure instinct. As Richard Pryor said, we should light our Olympic sprinters on fire before each race because it has a way of motivating you to run. There is simply no way Quentyn should not have known that "all of him" or even half of him, or just his hand, was on fire.

Appreciate you sharing your experience. Sorry that you experienced it though.

I would assume that perhaps you may have also experienced bonfires. Depending on how big the structure and which way the wind blows I may have felt enough heat to turn my cute little chubby cheeks pink and moved out of the way.

Fire is hot. Fire is dangerous.

As it stands in the story Dany does not have control of her children. The two dragons that escaped the bowels of the pyramid are being fed on a regular basis. Both of the now free range dragon now have separate hidey holes.

I  am of the belief that Quent is dead.  If people want to think that somehow or another there was a body switch it is okay with me.

 

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15 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Then you have certainly noticed that when Dany encounters "furnace wind", it is not the same as dragon fire. She ducks the fire that Drogon later spits on her. 

Later on, from her own account, we know that her hair burnt off but she is still wearing her undertunic, so unless the cloth was somehow fireproof, she was NEVER actually engulfed in fire in the Pit. She thinks she was unharmed by fire just like during the pyre event, happily ignoring the fact that her hands are blistered and her clothes unburnt, neither of which happened back then.

I don’t disagree with your general point but the blisters on her hands at least are likely from pulling the spear out of Drogon. *drifts away on painful memories of picking up the hot pan handle and not letting go* sorry, what was I saying....

yeah, anyway, makes sense she wasn’t “engulfed” by flame. Barristan sees her hair aflame, which is consistent with her state when we return to her POV in the Dothraki sea. Her clothing is tattered but not burned away indicating her clothes were never on fire. And her hands are explained by pulling the spear from Drogon. The only flame she encounters appears to Ben the one she ducks (which is presumably when her hair catches fire).

@John Suburbs I think what you need to appreciate too is we aren’t reading in “real time.” What takes us a few moments to read as Quentyn processes the scene could take place in the space of seconds in the novel. A couple of seconds is no time at all really and entirely believable a time span for the pain not to register

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17 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Then you have certainly noticed that when Dany encounters "furnace wind", it is not the same as dragon fire. She ducks the fire that Drogon later spits on her. 

And?  The language is the same in both cases ("furnace wind", then "was burning").  If it possible that Drogon "missed" then it is also possible that Rhaegal "missed".

"Later on, from her own account, we know that her hair burnt off but she is still wearing her undertunic, …"

For all you know Quentyn's underwear may have survived as well.  He may have lost no more than his hair, and outer clothing, and suffered superficial burn or two, like Dany did.

Remember that, under the theory, the man who dies in Dany's bed is someone else.

"...so unless the cloth was somehow fireproof, she was NEVER actually engulfed in fire in the Pit."

Either that or her underwear survived because it was covered with a layer of other cloth.  But however you rationalize it, if it happened to Dany, it could have happened to Quentyn.  The language is the same.

 

Edited by Platypus Rex

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28 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

also possible that Rhaegal "missed".

Rhaegal was busy with the sheep snack.

Viserion was the one who didn't have a sheep snack.

31 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Remember that, under the theory, the man who dies in Dany's bed is someone else.

Iffin' the man that dies in Dany's bed ain't Quent who he be?

32 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

But however you rationalize it,

Quent is roasty, toasty, char broiled.

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Now I get it.

As per your post ---

In the post you asked, "Give me one good reason I should not believe that Quentyn "the Frog" Martell is the real Aegon."

You give me one good reason why I should believe Quent is the real Aegon.

Thanks.

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9 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I don’t disagree with your general point but the blisters on her hands at least are likely from pulling the spear out of Drogon.

That's what I believe happened, and she being high on adrenaline didn't feel it.

What I was hinting at, though, was that during the Pyre event, her body must have been in contact not just with flames but with burning wood, hot cinders and heated ground, yet she never blistered, so whatever magic was at work in the pyre, it wasn't at work in the Pit.

 

Quote

*drifts away on painful memories of picking up the hot pan handle and not letting go* sorry, what was I saying....

I think you were talking about getting your forearm burnt on the oven door :P

Quote

yeah, anyway, makes sense she wasn’t “engulfed” by flame. Barristan sees her hair aflame, which is consistent with her state when we return to her POV in the Dothraki sea. Her clothing is tattered but not burned away indicating her clothes were never on fire. And her hands are explained by pulling the spear from Drogon. The only flame she encounters appears to Ben the one she ducks (which is presumably when her hair catches fire).

Most likely. With the wind induced by Drogon's flapping wings, her hair would be flowing around (which might also explain why the hair burnt without burning her). The only other option are the arrows stuck in Drogon the shafts of which were set aflame by his inner heat. If one was close to her as she mounted Drogon, her hair could have caught fire, as well.

Quote

@John Suburbs I think what you need to appreciate too is we aren’t reading in “real time.” What takes us a few moments to read as Quentyn processes the scene could take place in the space of seconds in the novel. A couple of seconds is no time at all really and entirely believable a time span for the pain not to register

 

Edited by Ygrain

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6 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

And?  The language is the same in both cases ("furnace wind", then "was burning").  If it possible that Drogon "missed" then it is also possible that Rhaegal "missed".

You need to re-read the passage:

Quote

Drogon roared. The sound filled the pit. A furnace wind engulfed her.

Quote

Drogon roared full in her face, his breath hot enough to blister skin

Quote

She scrabbled in the sand, pushing against the pitmaster’s corpse, and her fingers brushed against the handle of his whip. Touching it made her feel braver. The leather was warm, alive. Drogon roared again, the sound so loud that she almost dropped the whip.

No mention of fire there. just roaring. Three times, out of which once explicitely right into her face. Yet, neither the pitmaster's corpse behind her nor his whip within an arm's reach are burning.

Ergo: a dragon's breath is NOT the same as dragon fire, and though very hot, is not hot enough to set things afire.

Quote

Dany swung the lash at his scaled belly, back and forth until her arm began to ache. His long serpentine neck bent like an archer’s bow. With a hisssssss, he spat black fire down at her. Dany darted underneath the flames, swinging the whip and shouting, “No, no, no. Get DOWN!” His answering roar was full of fear and fury, full of pain.

This is the single instant during the encounter when Drogon spits fire at Dany. He doesn't miss, she ducks it. And we know everything that she can see because she thinks, "I am looking into hell, but I dare not look away".  She is watching Drogon the whole time.

6 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

"Later on, from her own account, we know that her hair burnt off but she is still wearing her undertunic, …"

For all you know Quentyn's underwear may have survived as well.  He may have lost no more than his hair, and outer clothing, and suffered superficial burn or two, like Dany did.

Remember that, under the theory, the man who dies in Dany's bed is someone else.

"...so unless the cloth was somehow fireproof, she was NEVER actually engulfed in fire in the Pit."

Either that or her underwear survived because it was covered with a layer of other cloth.  But however you rationalize it, if it happened to Dany, it could have happened to Quentyn.  The language is the same.

Really, closer reading:

Quote

The heat, the flies, the shouts from the crowd … I cannot breathe. She lifted her veil and let it flutter away. She took her tokar off as well. The pearls rattled softly against one another as she unwound the silk.
“Khaleesi?” Irri asked. “What are you doing?”
“Taking off my floppy ears.”

In other words, the under tunic and sandals (one, actually) was all she was wearing when she faced Drogon. She had taken off the upper garments way before she entered the arena.

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12 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Sorry, but no. It is all one, long hot/furnace wind:

The furnace wind. Not a new blast of wind, but the wind that has engulfed him all along. You are reaching wildly here. If this is just a roar, where are the ashes and cinders coming from?

It's a den of fire-breathing dragons, described as scorched and blackened. Plenty of burnt stuff over there, sent flying by the approaching dragon's wings.

12 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

How on earth could he suddenly catch on fire but never notice the blast of fire that causes this to happen?

Because he doesn't see it? He is standing between two dragons. He can only face one at one moment. The other can bathe him in flame from behind and Quentyn will never see it coming. Also, obscuring his vision with his own arm could have played some role

12 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Face it, YG, the dragonfire is the "hot wind" he first experiences. There is no other event between that and the burning whip, hand, body. He only reacts when he finally sees the fire. He never feels it.

No. Read my post above to Platypus Rex, comparing the events in the Pit - three times Drogon roars, but nothich catches fire. The whip that was just next to Dany as Drogon roared into her face is not burning, either.

Also, compare these two parts:

Quote

He brought the whip around and laid a lash across the dragon’s face. Viserion hissed.

 

Quote

With a hisssssss, he (Drogon) spat black fire down at her.

Note that both dragons respond with a hiss to being hit, i.e. the hit translates as being pissed off. The crucial difference is that Dany knew what she mustn't do:

Quote

"I am looking into hell, but I dare not look away"

Quentyn turned away from Viserin and broke eye contact. Then he was either hit by Rhaegal's flame as he was turning and shielding his eyes, so he never saw it, or Viserion followed on his angry hiss and spat fire when Quentyn showed him his back, which is why he never saw it coming. Either way, it comes back to the beginning of my post: when you're standing between two dragons, you cannot keep your eyes on both at the same time.

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@Clegane'sPup @Ygrain @HelenaExMachina 

Sorry, but no matter how you try to rationalize this -- whether this is some kind of time dialation or all of Quent's nerve endings are cauterized or he was just covering his eyes -- there is no possible way a normal human being can be blasted by a jet of white hot dragon fire and not realize it. Yes, Dany describes Drogon's breath as a hot furnace as well, but she also feels the heat of his eventual blast from 30 feet away. You have Quentyn already feeling the hot furnace, but when he gets dragon fire from point blank range he feels nothing.

It seems like the OP has dropped out of his own thread, so I will too. But I will leave you with this one comment, and you can take this to the bank: I cannot speak to whether Quentyn is alive or dead, but based on the facts as described in the dragonpit and the condition of the body that Selmy sees later, there is no way that can be Quentyn Martell. If this is just a goof by Martin, it is absolutely the worst one of all.

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Durrrrrrr, he experiences only hot wind because his nervous system is already frying and unable to complete the normal pain relay to his brain and back to the body parts that are already frizzled by then.

 

If Connington discovers Quentyn is really Aegon he could rush over and slap some grayscale onto those burns so the skin would regrow a tough outer layer again and Quent could then go back to work.

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On 12/17/2018 at 1:14 PM, John Suburbs said:

The furnace wind. Not a new blast of wind, but the wind that has engulfed him all along. You are reaching wildly here. If this is just a roar, where are the ashes and cinders coming from? How on earth could he suddenly catch on fire but never notice the blast of fire that causes this to happen?

I think the furnace wind is simply the wind that precedes a really hot fire source.  We’re told about it three times:

In a Clash of King’s after Tyrion’s wildfire trap on the Blackwater explodes:

Quote

The low clouds caught the color of the burning river and roofed the sky in shades of shifting green, eerily beautiful. A terrible beauty. Like dragonfire. Tyrion wondered if Aegon the Conqueror had felt like this as he flew above his Field of Fire. The furnace wind lifted his crimson cloak and beat at his bare face, yet he could not turn away.

Then again as Dany is in the process of becoming a dragon rider:

Quote

Drogon roared. The sound filled the pit. A furnace wind engulfed her. The dragon’s long scaled neck stretched toward her. When his mouth opened, she could see bits of broken bone and charred flesh between his black teeth. His eyes were molten. I am looking into hell, but I dare not look away.

The term is then used in the Dragon Pit, right when the Frog Prince turns and is about to be given a “kiss of fire” by Rhaegal.

Quote

Quentyn turned and threw his left arm across his face to shield his eyes from the furnace wind. Rhaegal, he reminded himself, the green one is Rhaegal. When he raised his whip, he saw that the lash was burning. His hand as well. All of him, all of him was burning. Oh, he thought. Then he began to scream.

The use of the term, furnace wind, is an interesting one.  It calls to mind a blacksmith creating a sword.  First you heat the metal in a furnace before it’s tempered.  And interestingly enough right before we have Quentin experience the furnace wind we have this passage:

Quote

Gerris was calling out his name, over and over, and the big man was bellowing, “Behind you, behind you, behind you!”

I think the use of the term bellowing is certainly intentional here.  The imagery of the blacksmith shop, of furnace and bellows calls to mind the creation of something.

So first we have Tyrion comparing himself to Aegon the Conqueror as he changes the course of the Battle of the Blackwater.  Then we have Dany becoming a dragon rider.  And finally we have Quent.  

So either Quent merely becomes a casualty of dragon flame.  Or somehow, unlikely in my opinion, escapes unscathed from the dragon pit, or else something more unusual, more magical happens.

Does our Frog Prince become “transformed” when he receives his kiss of fire from Rhaegal? Like the frog prince in the story becomes transformed when he’s kissed by the maiden?

Analogize Quent And Bran for the moment.  Bran’s third eye opens, and his telepathic abilities emerge while he is in bed suffering from the near fatal injuries of his fall.

Now Quent is put into another bed, suffering from what turns out to be fatal injuries.  And he’s being tended to by Missendei, the scribe.  Who seems to have a knack of being able to hear the dragons clawing on their walls when no one else, even Dany could.  Is it possible that Missendei is teaching Quent to open his third eye?  Does a piece of Quent’s consciousness remain inside one of the dragons at the time of his death.  Much in the same way that Orwell remained inside of his eagle at the time he is killed?

Edited by Frey family reunion

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