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James Fenimore Cooper XXII

Daenerys is Azor Ahai.

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On 2/27/2018 at 8:56 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

 

  1.  

Thanks for the thoughtful replies to my original topic. I have done some more reading and came up with additional ideas on this topic.  Apologies because we have gone to the side of the road and veered to the left of the topic.  But this is still about Dany so I feel it's fine to proceed.  So those old men with the swords of fire.  They were Azor Ahai and the vision doesn't paint a picture of men who were in their primes and the tattered clothes probably meant they had not changed for a long time.  What could make kings wear faded and worn clothing?  The more I think on this and the more I read people's comments the more I refine my original ideas.  The clothes are faded because they were living through the long night!  Lack of food, spare clothing, gaunt, pale.  All point to people who lost civilization.  And their bespoke tailors!  

So if Azor Ahai won, why did the long night last so long?  Answer: He didn't win.  History is often wrong so why not legends.  Those Azor Ahais could not turn back the darkness.  They had to wait it out until the long night passed.  This is consistent with Nan's story of a night that lasted for a lifetime.  They also killed their wives. Due to insanity or maybe just like in Nan's story of the mother's smothering their babies to spare them from suffering.  Dany smothered Drogo to spare him from suffering.  

I don't have much to base this on except the post "Targaryen Madness Is An Exaggeration" and 'Will Jon Snow Go Mad?" posts.  I believe those kings went mad.  They were the ancestors of the Targaryens and they were all Azor Ahai.  They went mad.  Male Targaryens are susceptible to madness.  Think about this.  Madness can't be common among the 40 ruling families of old Valyria.  So just maybe it's not a Valyrian thing, it's a Targaryen family curse.  Call it genetics.  Whatever the case may be, many male Targaryens go mad.  

What is their interest in our young hero?  They were cheering Dany on like a squad of retired male cheerleaders.  Run, run away from the darkness.  Wake, wake the dragon.  They were encouraging Dany because she is the only hope to defeat the long night.  Why?  Because she's the first female Azor Ahai.  She's not susceptible to madness.   Azor Ahai is now female and she has three dragons.  She is the Prince Who Was Promised.  The prophecy used the word "prince" and it has been explained because dragons are gender neutral.  But we have to remember, the prophesied person comes before the dragons.  The word choice is not "prince' because dragons are gender neutral but because all the other Azor Ahais before were male.  But this time around is different and this is the game changer that everyone has been waiting for.  AA is born a female this time and instead of a magic sword she has three dragons!  English is not my strongest point so I am not getting my ideas across as well as I would like.  But I believe those old guys were AAs of ancient times, they lost the battle for the long night, they murdered their wives because they went insane, they only had swords to fight with, they have been waiting all this time for the Prince Who Was Promised, they needed a female AA to avoid the madness, they needed a female to hatch dragons, and that female Azor Ahai is Daenerys.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145805-targaryen-madness-is-an-exaggeration/

Very good explanation.  I really like it.  It is the best answer as to who those old men in faded garments were.

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The cheerleaders in Dany's wake the dragon dream are previous Valyrian's who had second lifed a dragon. In second lifing a dragon the soul turns to fire and fuels the dragon's flame, but it doesn't work forever, it is consumed, it eventually burns out. That's what the pale swords represent, they've come and gone, they've done what they're urging Dany to do, what she is on the brink of doing, and now they're spent. Pale fire is magic exhausted.

Dany's waking the dragon dream is her on the verge of death and making the passage to second lifing the dragon, 99% of the way, but she doesn't actually die so she returns and wakes in her body. Those who came before her are edging her forward down the stone passage that is like a dragon's inside, towards a red door that is the heart of the dragon, where the fiery soul goes. And she is running from a void of nothing, that nothing is where her soul will end up if she dies and doesn't make it inside the dragon. 

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12 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

The cheerleaders in Dany's wake the dragon dream are previous Valyrian's who had second lifed a dragon. In second lifing a dragon the soul turns to fire and fuels the dragon's flame, but it doesn't work forever, it is consumed, it eventually burns out. That's what the pale swords represent, they've come and gone, they've done what they're urging Dany to do, what she is on the brink of doing, and now they're spent. Pale fire is magic exhausted.

Dany's waking the dragon dream is her on the verge of death and making the passage to second lifing the dragon, 99% of the way, but she doesn't actually die so she returns and wakes in her body. Those who came before her are edging her forward down the stone passage that is like a dragon's inside, towards a red door that is the heart of the dragon, where the fiery soul goes. And she is running from a void of nothing, that nothing is where her soul will end up if she dies and doesn't make it inside the dragon. 

Those male cheerleaders were the previous people who fulfilled the role of Azor Ahai.  The pale swords were their lightbringer.  They were cheering Dany on because she is the next Azor Ahai and the one who can actually use dragons.  

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8 minutes ago, Noble Lothar Frey said:

Those male cheerleaders were the previous people who fulfilled the role of Azor Ahai.  The pale swords were their lightbringer.  They were cheering Dany on because she is the next Azor Ahai and the one who can actually use dragons.  

There were not multiple AAs or Long Nights. The stories, legends and prophecies form a mashup of a process and of what will happen, which I have detailed. Don't worry, in the end there'll be enough there for each of Jon's and Dany's fanbase to declare their favourite AA.

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29 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

There were not multiple AAs or Long Nights. The stories, legends and prophecies form a mashup of a process and of what will happen, which I have detailed. Don't worry, in the end there'll be enough there for each of Jon's and Dany's fanbase to declare their favourite AA.

The world is older than ten thousand years.  The cyclical weather that comes every 8-10 thousand years is a small span of time compared to the age of the world.  There is enough time to allow for the occurrence of many long nights.  History and memory are short but the world is old.

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On 2/28/2018 at 12:05 AM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The swords of pale fire baffled me.  Pale fire looks like electric light.  Light that does not come from a flame, which is yellow fire.  The glass candles may not be lanterns at all but weapons.  If the original story was inspired by the lord of rings then why not a weapon that glows when the enemy is nearby.  In this case, when the enemy is stirring.  Dany is Azor Ahai and she will end up owning a glass candle before the end of this story.  Think about this.  A sword that drives away the darkness.  The darkness fled before the sword.  The glass candles are burning bright and only light drives away the darkness.  It is not a sword but to the ancients, anything long, pointed, and used against an enemy is a sword.  I think George Martin is being cute here.   Maybe he's a Star Wars fan.  Glass Candle = Light + Sword = Lightsaber = lights the darkness = Lightbringer.  Or think of it as a big flashlight.  Dany is not a swordsman but she can wield a glass candle to light the darkness ahead.

:D:agree:

 

On 3/4/2018 at 12:01 PM, Megorova said:

Those people were Targaryen Kings, doesn't actually matter from what time where they. What matters is that they are Dany's ancestors.

The Targaryen kings of Westeros lived a rich and pampered life.  Those men in the vision wore faded clothing.  I am convinced that these men were living through the Long Night of their time.  The world is much older than recorded history.  Yes they are Dany's ancestors.  They were the AA of their time.  Dany is now the Azor Ahai.  She has the dragons and fulfilled the prophecy of waking them from stone.  

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15 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:
On 3/4/2018 at 7:01 PM, Megorova said:

Those people were Targaryen Kings, doesn't actually matter from what time where they. What matters is that they are Dany's ancestors.

The Targaryen kings of Westeros lived a rich and pampered life.  Those men in the vision wore faded clothing.  I am convinced that these men were living through the Long Night of their time.  The world is much older than recorded history.  Yes they are Dany's ancestors.  They were the AA of their time.  Dany is now the Azor Ahai.  She has the dragons and fulfilled the prophecy of waking them from stone.  

It really doesn't matter whether those Kings were from First Long Night or from Targaryen era. What matters is what they looked like. That's beause they are not real people, they are symbols.

They had silver hair, and gold hair, and platinum white hair. And they had eyes color of jade, tourmaline, opal, and amethyst.

I did web-search about those stones, and their colors are blue AND green. There are blue and green jades, though green jades are more common. Amethysts are blue (one of their secondary hues). Opals are stones, that are blue and green simultaneously. There are blue and green tourmalines, and bi-colored tournamiles are also common.

So during that fevered dream, this is what Dany saw: first she saw stars, smiling and whispering; then stars were gone, and next what she saw was Valyrian-looking person; and then she heard Valyrian Kings urging her on, those Kings had blue AND green eyes, and hair that was silver-gold AND platinum-white, and they held swords of pale fire.

What actually happened then, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego, is that Quaithe came in Drogo's tent, by using glass candle (sword of pale fire); Dany saw her mask, that was made of starlight; and then Quaithe removed her mask and her cape, and that's when Dany saw Quaithe's blue and green eyes, and her silver-gold hair, that partially turned platinum-white, because of Quaithe's old age. Quaithe is Shiera Seastar. Shiera has one green eye, and one blue. And her hair was silver-gold, when she was younger.

Those Valyrian Kings were ONE person - Shiera Seastar. And she was urging Dany to push, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego.

They were not actual people, GRRM just used them as a metaphor/symbol, to write about Shiera, in a way, that readers at that time (in AGOT) won't actually get what's going on, though later, when he will reveal in plain text Quaithe's real identity (Shiera), and what she did, they will go back to that scene (from Dany's "dream"), and will be able to interpret that earlier symbolism.

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On 2/27/2018 at 8:56 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

 

  1.  

Thanks for the thoughtful replies to my original topic. I have done some more reading and came up with additional ideas on this topic.  Apologies because we have gone to the side of the road and veered to the left of the topic.  But this is still about Dany so I feel it's fine to proceed.  So those old men with the swords of fire.  They were Azor Ahai and the vision doesn't paint a picture of men who were in their primes and the tattered clothes probably meant they had not changed for a long time.  What could make kings wear faded and worn clothing?  The more I think on this and the more I read people's comments the more I refine my original ideas.  The clothes are faded because they were living through the long night!  Lack of food, spare clothing, gaunt, pale.  All point to people who lost civilization.  And their bespoke tailors!  

So if Azor Ahai won, why did the long night last so long?  Answer: He didn't win.  History is often wrong so why not legends.  Those Azor Ahais could not turn back the darkness.  They had to wait it out until the long night passed.  This is consistent with Nan's story of a night that lasted for a lifetime.  They also killed their wives. Due to insanity or maybe just like in Nan's story of the mother's smothering their babies to spare them from suffering.  Dany smothered Drogo to spare him from suffering.  

I don't have much to base this on except the post "Targaryen Madness Is An Exaggeration" and 'Will Jon Snow Go Mad?" posts.  I believe those kings went mad.  They were the ancestors of the Targaryens and they were all Azor Ahai.  They went mad.  Male Targaryens are susceptible to madness.  Think about this.  Madness can't be common among the 40 ruling families of old Valyria.  So just maybe it's not a Valyrian thing, it's a Targaryen family curse.  Call it genetics.  Whatever the case may be, many male Targaryens go mad.  

What is their interest in our young hero?  They were cheering Dany on like a squad of retired male cheerleaders.  Run, run away from the darkness.  Wake, wake the dragon.  They were encouraging Dany because she is the only hope to defeat the long night.  Why?  Because she's the first female Azor Ahai.  She's not susceptible to madness.   Azor Ahai is now female and she has three dragons.  She is the Prince Who Was Promised.  The prophecy used the word "prince" and it has been explained because dragons are gender neutral.  But we have to remember, the prophesied person comes before the dragons.  The word choice is not "prince' because dragons are gender neutral but because all the other Azor Ahais before were male.  But this time around is different and this is the game changer that everyone has been waiting for.  AA is born a female this time and instead of a magic sword she has three dragons!  English is not my strongest point so I am not getting my ideas across as well as I would like.  But I believe those old guys were AAs of ancient times, they lost the battle for the long night, they murdered their wives because they went insane, they only had swords to fight with, they have been waiting all this time for the Prince Who Was Promised, they needed a female AA to avoid the madness, they needed a female to hatch dragons, and that female Azor Ahai is Daenerys.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145805-targaryen-madness-is-an-exaggeration/

Lightbringer can also refer to the glass candles.  Like lamps they chase away the darkness.  They provide light when the sun hid its face for years.  The telling of the story over time got the meaning distorted.   Lightbringer can be applied to dragons and glass candles.  Daenerys is Azor Ahai, proven when she brought those dragons back from extinction.  Something which no other Targaryen has been able to do.  Which makes her special.  

Those kings in her dreams were not the kings of Westeros.  They go way back in time.   The climate changes are cyclical but they appear to random to the short lives of man.  The lack of science make the past a mystery.  They were the Azor Ahai of their own times.  They failed to force the climate to shift because that is beyond the power of man.  They lived and suffered through the Long Night with their subjects.  The swords they hold are not actual blades but instead are glass candles.

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16 hours ago, Empress Daenerys Targaryen said:

Those kings in her dreams were not the kings of Westeros.  They go way back in time.   The climate changes are cyclical but they appear to random to the short lives of man.  The lack of science make the past a mystery.  They were the Azor Ahai of their own times.  They failed to force the climate to shift because that is beyond the power of man.  They lived and suffered through the Long Night with their subjects.  The swords they hold are not actual blades but instead are glass candles.

I agree, that those swords are a glass candle, though those kings are not Azor Ahais of the past. Most likely, they are one person, not many, and that's shadowbinder Quaithe, who is actually Shiera Seastar, smiling and whispering stars in Dany's visions.

This is a scene from TWOW:

Spoiler

The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood­-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed...

When someone is using glass candle, he/she doesn't actually teleport to some other place, only their "apparition" is going whenever they want, like in this scenes:

ASOS, Dany III:

Quote

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper's rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened.

She woke suddenly in the darkness of her cabin, still flush with triumph. Balerion seemed to wake with her, and she heard the faint creak of wood, water lapping against the hull, a football on the deck above her head. And something else.

Someone was in the cabin with her.

"Irri? Jhiqui? Where are you?" Her handmaids did not respond. It was too black to see, but she could hear them breathing. "Jorah, is that you?"

"They sleep," a woman said. "They all sleep." The voice was very close. "Even dragons must sleep."

She is standing over me. "Who's there?" Dany peered into the darkness. She thought she could see a shadow, the faintest outline of a shape. "What do you want to me?"

"Remember. To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

"Quaithe?" Dany sprung from the bed and threw open the door. Pale yellow lantern light flooded the cabin, and Irri and Jhiqui sat up sleepily. "Khaleesi?" murmured Jhiqui, rubbing her eyes. Viserion woke and opened his jaws, and a puff of flame brightened even the darkest corners. There was no sign of a woman in a red lacquer mask.

ADWD, Dany II:

Quote

A woman stood under the persimmon tree, clad in a hooded robe that brushed the grass. Beneath the hood, her face seemed hard and shiny. She is wearing a mask, Dany knew, a wooden mask finished in dark red lacquer. "Quaithe? Am I dreaming?" She pinched her ear and winced at the pain. "I dreamt of you on Balerion, when first we came to Astapor."

"You did not dream. Then or now."

"What are you doing here? How did you get past my guards?"

"I came another way. Your guards never saw me."

"If I call out, they will kill you."

"They will swear to you that I am not here."

"Are you here?"

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

ADWD, Dany X:

Quote

She dreamed. All her cares fell away from her, and all her pains as well, and she seemed to float upward into the sky. She was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear. "To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward, you must go back. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

"Quaithe?" Dany called. "Where are you, Quaithe?"

Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight.

"Remember who you are, Daenerys," the stars whispered in a woman's voice. "The dragons know. Do you?"

And this is that fevered dream, that Dany had, when she was giving birth to Rhaego and saw those kings:

Quote

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" THE GHOSTS CRIED AS ONE, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

Shiera Seastar had silver-gold hair, that with age, probably, has partially turned platinum white. And she had mismatched eyes, one blue and the other one green. Opal is a bi-colored stone - blue and green, here's a picture:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Opal-53714.jpg

Most frequent colors of jades are green and blue.

Besides main color, amethysts also have a secondary hue, it's either red or blue. Also sometimes green quartz is incorrectly called green amethyst.

Some tourmalines are bi-colored, and there's stones of various colors, including green and blue.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YZF8hY__8ck/TUWmnFAsiAI/AAAAAAAAKWk/m9Ob3Q3d4pE/bi colored green and blue tourmaline faceted crystal.jpg?imgmax=800

Same as in Dany's others dreams, in which she has identified whispering stars as Quaithe, she saw those stars, when she was giving birth to Rhaego:

Quote

"She saw sunlight on the Dothraki sea, the living plain, rich with the smells of earth and death. Wind stirred the grasses, and they rippled like water. Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. "Home," she whispered as he entered her and filled her with his seed, but suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame."

~

Those stars in a daylight sky was Quaithe in her red mask, that is, as Dany thought, "is made of starlight". Then they were gone, because Quaithe has removed her mask. Shiera is a dragonseed and a Valyrian, same as Dany, that's why, when she has removed her starry mask, Dany saw wings and flame - what she actually saw was a dragonseed. And Dany in her fevered state saw Shiera as Viserys (because of her Valyrian looks), and maester Marwyn as Jorah, and before that as Drogo, because Marwyn was touching here there - to stop the bleeding and to check what's with the baby - and before him, Drogo was the only man, with whom she had sex, so in her mind, what Marwyn was doing, became associated with Drogo, so she saw Marwyn as Drogo (probably, because she was drugged with milk of the poppy, and had hallucinations, same as Ned prior his death).

"Ser Jorah's face was drawn and sorrowful. "Rhaegar was the last dragon," he told her. He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals. One moment he was there and the next he was fading, his flesh colorless, less substantial than the wind. "The last dragon," he whispered, thin as a wisp, and was gone. "

Maester Marwyn was also using glass candle, to "teleport" to Drogo's tent, and to assist Mirri Maz Duur and Quaithe/Shiera, when Dany was giving birth to her baby. And no one (Dothraki) saw them there (same as other people wouldn't have seen Quaithe in ADWD Dany II, when her "shadow" visited Dany in Meereen, and on board of Balerion ship), in that tent Jorah has seen only shadows <- those shadows were "apparitions", that has "teleported" there by using glass candles.

"Viserys stood before her, screaming. "The dragon does not beg, slut. You do not command the dragon. I am the dragon, and I will be crowned." The molten gold trickled down his face like wax, burning deep channels in his flesh. "I am the dragon and I will be crowned!" he shrieked, and his fingers snapped like snakes, biting at her nipples, pinching, twisting, even as his eyes burst and ran like jelly down seared and blackened cheeks."

Nipple stimulation is a natural method of inducing labor, it helps mother to deliver her baby, because breasts stimulation during childbirth makes body to produce hormon oxytocin, which strengthens contractions. Just google it.

The scene with those kings was after this scene with Viserys. And when she gave birth to her child, Quaithe has stayed with her:

"After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars."

In ADWD Dany X, she has identified "whispering stars" as Quaithe, and her mask as "made of starlight". She saw and heard whispering stars in her fevered dream, when she was giving birth to Rhaego. In the same dream, she saw the ghost kings with swords of pale fire in their hands, they had blue and green eyes, and they were crying as one. In ASOS Dany III, she saw a shadow, that has said to her the same thing as Quaithe - "To go north...".  In TWOW there's a scene with a shadow in woman’s form, that is holding pale white fire in her hands.

So after all this clues, that are written in the text of ASOIAF books, what is more likely - 1. that those kings are Azor Ahais of the past, even though there's ZERO indications anywhere in the history or mythology of Planetos, that indicate, that there was more than ONE Azor Ahai, that has lived during First Long Night, or 2. that that was Shiera Seastar with a glass candle?

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The stars that fill the sky in Dany's Wake the Dragon dream represent souls. When Dany second lifes the dragon those who died for her will follow her into a second life and their souls are symbolised by stars.

It is why you get this,

Quote

"Blood of my blood," Drogo called them, and so it was; they shared a single life. The ancient traditions of the horselords demanded that when the khal died, his bloodriders died with him, to ride at his side in the night lands.

Why Benerro says this.

Quote

Haldon nodded. "Benerro has sent forth the word from Volantis. Her coming is the fulfillment of an ancient prophecy. From smoke and salt was she born to make the world anew. She is Azor Ahai returned … and her triumph over darkness will bring a summer that will never end … death itself will bend its knee, and all those who die fighting in her cause shall be reborn …"

In second lifing the dragon she will pave the way and hold domain over who may enter the dragon with her in the second life. She either allows them in or damns them to the eternal lonesome darkness that she herself feels in the Waking the Dragon dream, where she would end up herself if she doesn't make it inside the dragon.

Quote

The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run.

She becomes a god, it is why the Valyrian dragon riding families didn't hold any other gods and considered themselves equal to the gods, why dragons are named after gods, because by definition and function they are.

Edited by chrisdaw

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On 2/27/2018 at 10:10 PM, Rosetta Stone said:

How interesting.  The biggest clue for Dany being AA is the hatching of the dragon eggs.  She literally woke dragons from stone.  Which was foretold in the prophecy. 

It is.  We don't need the rest of the clues but they are interesting on their own.  It shows how much planning Martin had.

On 2/27/2018 at 8:56 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

 

  1.  

Thanks for the thoughtful replies to my original topic. I have done some more reading and came up with additional ideas on this topic.  Apologies because we have gone to the side of the road and veered to the left of the topic.  But this is still about Dany so I feel it's fine to proceed.  So those old men with the swords of fire.  They were Azor Ahai and the vision doesn't paint a picture of men who were in their primes and the tattered clothes probably meant they had not changed for a long time.  What could make kings wear faded and worn clothing?  The more I think on this and the more I read people's comments the more I refine my original ideas.  The clothes are faded because they were living through the long night!  Lack of food, spare clothing, gaunt, pale.  All point to people who lost civilization.  And their bespoke tailors!  

So if Azor Ahai won, why did the long night last so long?  Answer: He didn't win.  History is often wrong so why not legends.  Those Azor Ahais could not turn back the darkness.  They had to wait it out until the long night passed.  This is consistent with Nan's story of a night that lasted for a lifetime.  They also killed their wives. Due to insanity or maybe just like in Nan's story of the mother's smothering their babies to spare them from suffering.  Dany smothered Drogo to spare him from suffering.  

I don't have much to base this on except the post "Targaryen Madness Is An Exaggeration" and 'Will Jon Snow Go Mad?" posts.  I believe those kings went mad.  They were the ancestors of the Targaryens and they were all Azor Ahai.  They went mad.  Male Targaryens are susceptible to madness.  Think about this.  Madness can't be common among the 40 ruling families of old Valyria.  So just maybe it's not a Valyrian thing, it's a Targaryen family curse.  Call it genetics.  Whatever the case may be, many male Targaryens go mad.  

What is their interest in our young hero?  They were cheering Dany on like a squad of retired male cheerleaders.  Run, run away from the darkness.  Wake, wake the dragon.  They were encouraging Dany because she is the only hope to defeat the long night.  Why?  Because she's the first female Azor Ahai.  She's not susceptible to madness.   Azor Ahai is now female and she has three dragons.  She is the Prince Who Was Promised.  The prophecy used the word "prince" and it has been explained because dragons are gender neutral.  But we have to remember, the prophesied person comes before the dragons.  The word choice is not "prince' because dragons are gender neutral but because all the other Azor Ahais before were male.  But this time around is different and this is the game changer that everyone has been waiting for.  AA is born a female this time and instead of a magic sword she has three dragons!  English is not my strongest point so I am not getting my ideas across as well as I would like.  But I believe those old guys were AAs of ancient times, they lost the battle for the long night, they murdered their wives because they went insane, they only had swords to fight with, they have been waiting all this time for the Prince Who Was Promised, they needed a female AA to avoid the madness, they needed a female to hatch dragons, and that female Azor Ahai is Daenerys.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/145805-targaryen-madness-is-an-exaggeration/

The dragons are the "game changers" but the others are not going away permanently.  The dragons will burn away the walking dead and keep the infection from spreading.  The world of the song is cyclical and weather has a cycle just like day and night.  It's been day and now the night is coming.  Hot and cold.  Winter is insensitive because it kills the unprepared.  Like the grasshopper in the proverb.  Westeros is unprepared because they let emotions rule their decisions.  Now is not the time for revenge but they all do it anyway.   Doran Martell, Arya Stark, Littlefinger, and Jon Snow pursue revenge when they know it won't lead to anything good.

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The dragon has three heads. Dany is one, Jon is two. If all three need to be from Aerys's and Rhaella's line and considering that Aegon is in all probability fake, then the third can only be a child of theirs. 

I also think they need to be sacrificed. Maybe one will be enough but I think it will need to be all three. It will be a tear-jerker. 

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3 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

The dragon has three heads. Dany is one, Jon is two. If all three need to be from Aerys's and Rhaella's line and considering that Aegon is in all probability fake, then the third can only be a child of theirs. 

I also think they need to be sacrificed. Maybe one will be enough but I think it will need to be all three. It will be a tear-jerker. 

Those three heads is Jon, Dany, and Rhaego.

The dragon is a singular being, like God in Catholicism or Christianity, but there are three heads of the dragon, same as three "avatars" of God - The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. Even though the Father is the main "avatar" of Christianic God, he is not the first, because in The Bible it was written, that when there was nothing, there was a Holy Spirit:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light."

<- Get it? ^_^ The Holy Spirit is a "lightbringer".

So the Holy Spirit was first, same as Jon was born first out of three heads of the dragon. Then there was the Father, and Dany is ASOIAF's Mother, while the third one, The Son, is Rhaego.

In Christianity the Holy Spirit is also referred to as the Holy Ghost:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit_in_Christianity

That's why I think, that Dany, Rhaego and Jon are the Holy Trinity of ASOIAF, or the three-headed dragon - The Mother, The Son, and The Holy Ghost (Jon's Ghost).

Dany is "reincarnation" of Aegon the Conqueror. But the thing is, that even though Aegon was the chief of Targaryen family, he wasn't an oldest out of his siblings. His sister, Rhaenys was born in 25 or 26 BC. Aegon was born in 27 BC. And Visenya was born in 28 or 29 BC. So Aegon, same as Dany, was in the middle. Dany was born between Jon and Rhaego.

Aegon was male, and prior him was born his Rhaenys, and after him was born his Visenya. But because Dany is a female, in her case their order was reversed - Dany's "Rhaenys", her son Rhaego, was born after her, while Dany's "Visenya" - Jon Snow, was born before her. Rhaegar thought, that his third child will be a girl, and supposedly was planning to name her Visenya. So Jon is Dany's "Visenya".

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3 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

The dragon has three heads. Dany is one, Jon is two. If all three need to be from Aerys's and Rhaella's line and considering that Aegon is in all probability fake, then the third can only be a child of theirs. 

I also think they need to be sacrificed. Maybe one will be enough but I think it will need to be all three. It will be a tear-jerker. 

You are conflating the promised prince with the three heads of Rhaegar's dragon, no? Why would the three heads of Rhaegar's dragon need to be born of the line of Aerys and Rhaella? 

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16 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

You are conflating the promised prince with the three heads of Rhaegar's dragon, no? Why would the three heads of Rhaegar's dragon need to be born of the line of Aerys and Rhaella? 

Cause the Ghost of Highheart said so. I am going on the assumption that Azor Ahai and the Prince that was promised are the same and so is the aforementioned dragon. As such the prince/Ahai refers to three individuals. Dany is definitely one and it looks increasingly like Jon is the second. Not all aspects of the prophecy can apply to all three, but the Ghost's stipulation so far applies to both. As there are no other living descendants of Aerys and Rhaela (I am obviously discounting Aegon as genuine) then an offspring of either or both is the only option. 

If the Ghost's prediction does not apply to the third head, then it could be anyone. 

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1 hour ago, The Sleeper said:
2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Why would the three heads of Rhaegar's dragon need to be born of the line of Aerys and Rhaella? 

Cause the Ghost of Highheart said so.

:agree:

1 hour ago, The Sleeper said:

then an offspring of either or both is the only option. 

And if Rhaego is alive? Don't you think, that if he is alive, then he is the third head?

Just think about it - Jon and Rhaego, even though there's a big age difference between them, both of them are grandsons of Aerys and Rhaella.

Aerys + Rhaella = Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon

Aerys + Rhaella = Dany + Drogo = Rhaego

Jon was raised by his Stark relatives, so isn't it possible, that GRRM has used the same formula with Rhaego, and thus he is being raised by his Dothaki relatives, and thus his kidnapping is the treason for blood, predicted to Dany by the Undying. No?

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34 minutes ago, Megorova said:

:agree:

And if Rhaego is alive? Don't you think, that if he is alive, then he is the third head?

Just think about it - Jon and Rhaego, even though there's a big age difference between them, both of them are grandsons of Aerys and Rhaella.

Aerys + Rhaella = Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon

Aerys + Rhaella = Dany + Drogo = Rhaego

Jon was raised by his Stark relatives, so isn't it possible, that GRRM has used the same formula with Rhaego, and thus he is being raised by his Dothaki relatives, and thus his kidnapping is the treason for blood, predicted to Dany by the Undying. No?

Rhaego's dead, his life consumed for the dragons to live.

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Dany will play the role of AA in regards to the Lightbringer forging story, for two-thirds of it anyway.

Drorgon is the stone beast. Among other changes he will get greyscale and turn to stone. Dany will want to wake him from stone and return his ability to breathe fire. She will have a good idea of how to do it, as happened before, she will need a child to sacrifice to wake the dragon from stone. And at this point is where the AA story kicks in.

Quote

"Burnt," said Salladhor Saan, "and be glad of that, my friend. Do you know the tale of the forging of Lightbringer? I shall tell it to you. It was a time when darkness lay heavy on the world. To oppose it, the hero must have a hero's blade, oh, like none that had ever been. And so for thirty days and thirty nights Azor Ahai labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires. Heat and hammer and fold, heat and hammer and fold, oh, yes, until the sword was done. Yet when he plunged it into water to temper the steel it burst asunder.

Dany is AA. Lightbringer is her child to be sacrificed. The forging is sex, pregnancy, labouring, sleepless nights, hammer and fold, oh yes. The temple and sacred fire Dany's womb. Water is the father, Aurane Waters, he of Valyrian blood who looks much like Rhaegar, seemingly as good a dragon blooded candidate as Dany could hope to find.

But it fails, miscarriage, Aurane doesn't have it in him to wake the dragon.

Quote

"Being a hero, it was not for him to shrug and go in search of excellent grapes such as these, so again he began. The second time it took him fifty days and fifty nights, and this sword seemed even finer than the first. Azor Ahai captured a lion, to temper the blade by plunging it through the beast's red heart, but once more the steel shattered and split. Great was his woe and great was his sorrow then, for he knew what he must do.

But Dany doesn't give up, next candidate. A lion, Tyrion. He who rides Viserion and so surely must be of Targaryen blood, a red fiery heart, as only Targs ride dragons. She has to catch this one, so seems he'll put up some resistance, he is married after all. 

But again another miscarriage, Tyrion too has not what it takes to wake the dragon.

And so one more time.

Quote

"A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. 'Nissa Nissa,' he said to her, for that was her name, 'bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.' She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.

The father this time is totally obscured but it needn't be, everyone will know by the time it comes around who the Targaryen blooded father has to be. But this last third of the story will not play out the same with Dany in the AA role.

Edited by chrisdaw

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7 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Cause the Ghost of Highheart said so. I am going on the assumption that Azor Ahai and the Prince that was promised are the same and so is the aforementioned dragon. As such the prince/Ahai refers to three individuals. Dany is definitely one and it looks increasingly like Jon is the second. Not all aspects of the prophecy can apply to all three, but the Ghost's stipulation so far applies to both. As there are no other living descendants of Aerys and Rhaela (I am obviously discounting Aegon as genuine) then an offspring of either or both is the only option. 

If the Ghost's prediction does not apply to the third head, then it could be anyone. 

I understand the argument that Azor Ahai reborn and the promised prince are conflated (and I agree with it), but I don't see why we should assume that the three heads of Rhaegar's dragon constitute that hero or heroine. 

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