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Black Dragons

Lollys Stokeworth's Rape

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20 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

That makes Hoster an idiot. Unless he tried to kill his daughter...

Hoster told his maester "My daughter is preggers by that worthless POS from the Fingers. If she comes to term we'll be a laughingstock and she will lose her value as  a marriageable commodity. Give her something to fix it."  If you can't trust your maester who can you trust? Why assume that Hoster knew what would be administered or what the long-term effects would be? He didn't forge a link for medicine at the Citadel, to the best of my knowledge.

And, of course, it's just a guess that the tansy did damage Lysa's reproductive organs. Could be "the seed is weak"on Jon Arryn's part.

 

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1 hour ago, Tianzi said:

Still, if his wishes make the characters act inconsistently, it's worth it to point out a plothole (even a minor one).

But in this case I think the answer is easy - if moon tea is any danger to woman's fertility or life, Lady Tanda would be shutting down any chance for prolonging the line, since Falyse is probably barren. (and Lollys is already in the age which's considered 'too old' for a bride in terms of bearing heirs, as we saw in Cersei's and the Tyrells' case).

Well, the story does have an awful lot of moving part to it, so keeping everything consistent is probably a bit of a chore, especially for minor characters like the Stokeworths.

With regards to moon tea, the ingredients we've been given contain several that are quite dangerous in the wrong dosage, so using it could be hazardous, especially if you aren't sure of its provenance.  And given the war, supplies may be scarce, in any case. 

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11 hours ago, Lollygag said:

 

Her mom probably considered that this might be her only chance at a grandkid given that for all of the strikes against Lollys, there were now more.

 

 

 

That and also her sister Falyse has been married for several years and yet she is still childless. 

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It might be that attempts to abort the child simply did not work. We don't know the efficacy of Planetos abortion methods, but if they're anything like medieval methods from our world, they would be far from 100% successful. 

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3 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Shae's comment was the most disturbing. Tyrion, read the signs you fool.

I thought it was a really interesting comment by Shae. It gave us a bit of a glimpse into just how hard she was. 

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1 hour ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I thought it was a really interesting comment by Shae. It gave us a bit of a glimpse into just how hard she was. 

I agree with you about Shae being a hard women, but what was her comment again? (Tyrion really misread that woman, to his cost.)

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2 minutes ago, zandru said:

I agree with you about Shae being a hard women, but what was her comment again? (Tyrion really misread that woman, to his cost.)

"All they did was fucking her". Something like that.

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2 minutes ago, zandru said:

I agree with you about Shae being a hard women, but what was her comment again?

Not got a book handy, but it was along the lines of "she just got fucked, what's the big deal?" 

Shae's attitude probably had the alt-right high-fiving for days :-)

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4 minutes ago, zandru said:

Tyrion really misread that woman, to his cost.

Yeah, it's the major blindspot for Tyrion. Cersei was actually spot on, he thought with his little worm, and that made him vulnerable.

In fairness to Shae, she never lied about what she was to Tyrion. He put her on a pedestal that she never claimed for herself. He's a poor deluded fool where Shae's concerned.  

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3 hours ago, The Sunland Lord said:

"All they did was fuck her". Something like that.

Thanks! That sounds like Shae. But then, she's a professional. It was her chosen career path, and she knows what to do afterwards.

18 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I hate to be "that other guy" but I think rape is distressing whatever the context

Exactly. There's a big difference between choosing to "service" a guy and being brutally raped by "half a hundred" of them (without even any silver as consolation). I suspect Shae was being cold in part because she had no particular liking or sympathy for Lollys.

43 minutes ago, CornishDornish said:

The Stokeworths have no future heirs and aren't particularly fertile, Falyse has no children and is an alcoholic and Tanda is far too old. I think at this point any heir is worth their weight in gold.

This sounds pretty reasonable to me. Wonder if they explained it to Lollys, if she understood it, and how she took it? Then there's the assumption that King Joffrey would legitimate the offspring as a Stokeworth. I further assume that Lord Bronn of the Blackwater will off the child as soon as he has one of his own from Lollys. He's already thinned the Stokeworth family by quite a bit.

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47 minutes ago, zandru said:

Thanks! 

You're welcome. 

Quote

Exactly. There's a big difference between choosing to "service" a guy and being brutally raped by "half a hundred" of them (without even any silver as consolation). I suspect Shae was being cold in part because she had no particular liking or sympathy for Lollys.

I agree. 

Quote

This sounds pretty reasonable to me. Wonder if they explained it to Lollys, if she understood it, and how she took it? Then there's the assumption that King Joffrey would legitimate the offspring as a Stokeworth. I further assume that Lord Bronn of the Blackwater will off the child as soon as he has one of his own from Lollys. He's already thinned the Stokeworth family by quite a bit.

I think he will not. The baby is called Tyrion, and that sounds like a name which Bronn, despite being a mercenary and all, choose to honor Tyrion Lannister. He killed Balman in a duel (not in the chivalrous southern way to be fair), who challenged him and the latter isn't a Stokeworth, but married into the family, like Bronn is.

Falyse, on the other hand, was given to Maester Mengele for examination by the Queen Nutcase.   

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2 hours ago, zandru said:

This sounds pretty reasonable to me. Wonder if they explained it to Lollys, if she understood it, and how she took it? Then there's the assumption that King Joffrey would legitimate the offspring as a Stokeworth. I further assume that Lord Bronn of the Blackwater will off the child as soon as he has one of his own from Lollys. He's already thinned the Stokeworth family by quite a bit.

 

I think it all depends if he feels that Tyrion is going to be a threat, Bronn already has demonstrated that he doesn't have problems with killing children if he gets paid hence the infamous 'how much?' question to Tyrion Lannister in CoK and the subtle suggestion that they should assassinate Joff and install Tommen.

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19 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Or Pycelle? 

“Why does Margaery send for you?”
“She desires . . . she . . . she . . .”
“Say it!”
He cringed. “Moon tea,” he whispered. “Moon tea, for . . .”

Silver is the link for Maesters who've studied medicine. Pycelle has one. Luwin claims he can teach healing. Ballabar is considered a gifted healer. Frenken takes over for Ballabar at Tyrion's request. Colemon administers potions to SR. Granted not all of maesters are there and I'm sure not every maester knows how to make it.

Pycelle would be an obvious candidate, but I'd hazard a WAG of the combination of the Stokeworths not caring/wanting the kid and no one thought to do it.

 

Ah, yes, forgot about Pycelle. Would he trouble himself with the needs of a piddling house like the Stokeworths? Maybe, but from his reaction to Cersei's questioning it seems that providing moon tea is a less-than-honorable thing to do, and would probably cause a stink with the church, particularly with the new High Septon on board.

"Hazard a WAG"? I'm not familiar with that phrase.

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[mod] Folks, please approach the topics of rape and abortion in this fictional incident with due sensitivity to the fact that for many people reading the thread they are, in real life, personally difficult topics. Thank you. [/mod]

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10 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Not got a book handy, but it was along the lines of "she just got fucked, what's the big deal?" 

Shae's attitude probably had the alt-right high-fiving for days :-)

To be fair, I imagine she's been sexually abused by plenty of men in her life(I mean she took to Bronn's stealing of her to be of no real shocker), and perhaps eventually she tried to mitigate the severity of what had happened to her thus leading her to a very scewed perception of sex in general. 

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10 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Yeah, it's the major blindspot for Tyrion. Cersei was actually spot on, he thought with his little worm, and that made him vulnerable.

In fairness to Shae, she never lied about what she was to Tyrion. He put her on a pedestal that she never claimed for herself. He's a poor deluded fool where Shae's concerned.  

True. His obsession with her became really unhealthy for not just him but everyone around him quite frankly; a girl was whipped for being mistaken for Shae and Tyrion murdered a man to keep the presence of her secret.

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3 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

"Hazard a WAG"? I'm not familiar with that phrase.

WAG = wild-arsed guess. That's my WAG on it, at least...

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I don't think they were interested in having Lollys have moon tea. Maester Frenken was at King's Landing 9 chapters ahead the bread riots and he is the maester attached to Stokeworth. He could have taken care of Lollys had Tanda wanted him to. 

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