TrueMetis Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, Esmenet said: So, your admitting that gun laws do nothing to stop crime? The way I see it if federal laws were passed, the criminals would get guns from Mexico, the black market and so on. I think its a cultural problem and can't be solved solely from gun laws. No, you have it backwards. Criminals in Mexico gets guns from the US. It wouldn't be the other way around, because the US produces mass amount of guns. Mexico doesn't. The just don't, can't, produce enough guns to deal with US demand. I think you don't understand just how ridiculously huge gun manufacturing is in the US. in 2013 the US produced 10 million guns. Now I expect that number to have gone down cause the scary black man isn't in office anymore. But US criminals will never need to get guns from other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmenet Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, TrueMetis said: No, you have it backwards. Criminals in Mexico gets guns from the US. It wouldn't be the other way around, because the US produces mass amount of guns. Mexico doesn't. The just don't, can't, produce enough guns to deal with US demand. I think you don't understand just how ridiculously huge gun manufacturing is in the US. in 2013 the US produced 10 million guns. Now I expect that number to have gone down cause the scary black man isn't in office anymore. But US criminals will never need to get guns from other countries. Fair enough. Then why would gun laws decrease the crime rate? It hasnt worked in the cities that have imposed them. I'm not against stricter gun laws, just not sure its the answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmenet Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said: Cause: guns are illegal. Effect: they become increasingly prohibitively expensive. You haven't thought it through. If the legal markets go away, so do the legal manufacturers. Try applying a little effort to your dogshit arguments before spewing them all over my reading material. If thought it through. Why so much hate when I'm just asking questions? In your argument, the guns still exist. And, as pointed out, we have more guns In America than people. I don't see how that would stop criminals from getting guns. Have you thought it out? Or, are you just so liberal your unwilling to think outside the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 It's funny that right wingers tell us gun regulations don't work so we should stop trying, while they are all about regulating into extinction things like abortion, recreational drugs, same-sex marriage, profanity, nudity, immigration... It's like only one thing can get them excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Esmenet said: Fair enough. Then why would gun laws decrease the crime rate? It hasnt worked in the cities that have imposed them. I'm not against stricter gun laws, just not sure its the answer... Already answered: Quote New guns laws in all of the areas around those cities. 60% of gun crimes in Chicago are from guns from other states. Two-thirds of the NJ/NY gun crimes are guns from out of state -- mostly the South due to the infamous Iron Pipeline https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gun-laws-stop-at-state-lines-but-guns-dont/ https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/12/us/gun-traffickers-smuggling-state-gun-laws.html P.S. - We also screw up other countries because of their lax borders and our lax gun laws. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-kinosian-weigend-guns-mexico-20170302-story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Just now, Esmenet said: Fair enough. Then why would gun laws decrease the crime rate? It hasnt worked in the cities that have imposed them. I'm not against stricter gun laws, just not sure its the answer... It would allow you to reduce the total number of guns. Gun control would make obtaining them legally more difficult, which would reduce demand, less would be manufactured, and there would be less to end up in the black market. Therefore there would be less to use in crimes because you would have more guns leaving circulation than being added to it. Combine with some sort of program to actively take guns off the street and destroy them and you'll make an even greater impact. It'll be hard, but something being difficult isn't an excuse not to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmenet Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said: It's funny that right wingers tell us gun regulations don't work so we should stop trying, while they are all about regulating into extinction things like abortion, recreational drugs, same-sex marriage, profanity, nudity, immigration... It's like only one thing can get them excited. I'm a Democrat. So, stop with the B.S. hate. I'm not talking about abortion or the likes. I have no problem with stricter gun laws, again if you didn't read it the first time. No one said stop trying. And again, only one person has tried to engage in adult conversation. I'm just wondering what makes people think it will work? It hasnt worked in the cities mentioned and where they get their guns is irrelevant, they still get them or had them prior to law changes. Its way broader subject than, "We'll pass strict gun laws and our problem will be solved.". Education, poverty and gangs are were we need to look at, imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmenet Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Week said: Already answered: You guys are making my point. Gun laws do not stop people from getting guns. The argument that less guns will be manufactured is hogwash. So what? Theres enough guns right now to go around for a very long time. Gun laws are part of the solution, but only a small part. We (Congress, Senate) need to look at other areas that will bring the crime rates down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Esmenet said: You guys are making my point. Gun laws do not stop people from getting guns. The argument that less guns will be manufactured is hogwash. So what? Theres enough guns right now to go around for a very long time. Gun laws are part of the solution, but only a small part. We (Congress, Senate) need to look at other areas that will bring the crime rates down. States with lax gun laws have easier access to guns States with strict gun laws have more restricted access to guns People can move guns from one state to the other. Therefore, people buy guns in states with lax gun laws and bring them to states with more restrictive gun laws. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/nyregion/florida-shooting-parkland-gun-control-connecticut.html Quote Analyses by the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence show that, with few exceptions, states with the strictest gun-control measures, including California, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York, have the lowest rates of gun deaths, while those with the most lax laws like Alabama, Alaska and Louisiana, have the highest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 29 minutes ago, Esmenet said: You guys are making my point. Gun laws do not stop people from getting guns. The argument that less guns will be manufactured is hogwash. So what? Theres enough guns right now to go around for a very long time. Gun laws are part of the solution, but only a small part. We (Congress, Senate) need to look at other areas that will bring the crime rates down. Yeah, gun laws did nothing in Australia. Didn't stop them from getting guns at all. And yeah it will take a while to have an effect. Guess what? Nothing will have an immediate effect on crime rates. Nothing ever does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Also - the issue at hand is gun crime. Attempts to bring back to just crime rate is an attempt at obfuscation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 I'll just leave these here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Esmenet said: If thought it through. Why so much hate when I'm just asking questions? There's no hate here, nor are you 'only asking questions'. You're not arguing in good faith, and what you've received in reply to that is mild disagreement, not hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmenet Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 18 minutes ago, Week said: Also - the issue at hand is gun crime. Attempts to bring back to just crime rate is an attempt at obfuscation. Sorry, gun crime then. Only thats were most violence comes to begin with, the major incidents at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Just asking questions, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, mormont said: There's no hate here, nor are you 'only asking questions'. You're not arguing in good faith, and what you've received in reply to that is mild disagreement, not hate. Just say the word, Bear Man. Just say the word and I'll slip the leash. Hold me back, @Tywin et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Esmenet said: You guys are making my point. Gun laws do not stop people from getting guns. The argument that less guns will be manufactured is hogwash. So what? Theres enough guns right now to go around for a very long time. Gun laws are part of the solution, but only a small part. We (Congress, Senate) need to look at other areas that will bring the crime rates down. I don't follow your logic. There is a nearly 1:1 ratio of guns to adults in the USA and it has the highest rate of violence - gun or otherwise - in the developed world. That's pretty clear cut. As for gun laws being only a small part of the solution, there are two responses: If they are any part of the solution, then stop standing in their way. It's a life and death issue, so nothing can be more important. Secondly, they are the biggest part of the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 22 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said: Just say the word, Bear Man. Just say the word and I'll slip the leash. Hold me back, @Tywin et al. What if I want to let go of the reins? What if I want to see The Jace ride eternal, shiny and chrome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Just now, Tywin et al. said: What if I want to let go of the reins? What if I want to see The Jace ride eternal, shiny and chrome? Witness me, motherfucker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 This thread seems to have become one big logical fallacy today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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