Zorral Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Another school shooting this morning, in Indiana at a middle school. Two dead, one a female student, and the other a male (I think -- reliable details are still not entirely available) teacher. The shooter, a male, described as a teenager. Which leaves this one even stranger, as what was a teen doing at a school of 6 - 8 grade students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 19 minutes ago, Zorral said: The shooter, a male, described as a teenager. Which leaves this one even stranger, as what was a teen doing at a school of 6 - 8 grade students. The usual age range for 8th grade is 13-14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: The usual age range for 8th grade is 13-14. Horrible. Edited to add: just now saw the shooter is being described as age 13. My god! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 21 hours ago, Esmenet said: So, your admitting that gun laws do nothing to stop crime? The way I see it if federal laws were passed, the criminals would get guns from Mexico, the black market and so on. I think its a cultural problem and can't be solved solely from gun laws. Most gun deaths are not a result of gun crime. Gun laws don't stop crime, but they do reduce gun violence. Safety belt laws don't stop accidents from occurring after all, nor are they meant to. What a disingenuous argument. Not surprising given your username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Where are you reading about the fatalities? https://www.apnews.com/37202468b2a54bcd91c1e8a22921ad25/Student-says-science-teacher-tackled-Indiana-school-shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 21 hours ago, Esmenet said: Fair enough. Then why would gun laws decrease the crime rate? It hasnt worked in the cities that have imposed them. I'm not against stricter gun laws, just not sure its the answer... It has worked in most places. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Because we have scads of data that indicate gun violence and gun-related crime has gone down when there are stricter laws on guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 26 minutes ago, Week said: Where are you reading about the fatalities? https://www.apnews.com/37202468b2a54bcd91c1e8a22921ad25/Student-says-science-teacher-tackled-Indiana-school-shooter From various news sources including Indiana and Chicago news stations. As I wrote in the first post about this, the details were sketchy, as they always are early on. And often, of course, just plain wrong. If there are no fatalities that would be wonderful. So many have been killed senselessly this year. And last year, and the year before that and on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Zorral said: From various news sources including Indiana and Chicago news stations. As I wrote in the first post about this, the details were sketchy, as they always are early on. And often, of course, just plain wrong. If there are no fatalities that would be wonderful. So many have been killed senselessly this year. And last year, and the year before that and on and on. Fingers crossed -- still not confirmation of fatalities. Sounds like a case of a good guy with hands that stopped the shooting from being worse. https://www.apnews.com/3054e67879c740fdb3d5c2945268ac59/The-Latest:-Police-working-on-how-Indiana-student-got-guns Just to be clear -- didn't meant to come off as anything negative to you in my previous post. I was a bit curt in asking the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I ask this genuinely, it's not a rhetorical question. When literally every single American citizen owns at least one gun, and keeps it on them at all times, and there are no restrictions on when they can use them, carry them or fire them, what next? Once that fails to work, what will be your solution to America's violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Yukle said: I ask this genuinely, it's not a rhetorical question. When literally every single American citizen owns at least one gun, and keeps it on them at all times, and there are no restrictions on when they can use them, carry them or fire them, what next? Once that fails to work, what will be your solution to America's violence? Then we start blaming the brown people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Then we start blaming the brown people. Pretty sure this already happens. the answer is obviously not enough firepower. No one wil be safe until everyone is permitted to own a tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Then we start blaming the brown people. You think there will be many left by the time we've reached that NRA dream extreme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 11 hours ago, Yukle said: I ask this genuinely, it's not a rhetorical question. When literally every single American citizen owns at least one gun, and keeps it on them at all times, and there are no restrictions on when they can use them, carry them or fire them, what next? Once that fails to work, what will be your solution to America's violence? It will never happen, and the NRA knows that, but hasn't Trump basically explained what the random gun nut thinks already when he advocated civilians with guns during the Bataclan attack? (*gag*) That is : it will NOT fail, and good guys will shoot bad guys on sight and all will be well, and America (fuck yeah!) will get to keep being ultraviolent and rid of criminals at the same time. If you follow this to the end, then society would then be able to disband police forces and regulate itself. A Tea Partisan wet dream if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 6 hours ago, Which Tyler said: You think there will be many left by the time we've reached that NRA dream extreme? Touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Whenever I think about the NRA’s ideal, I go through the same sad sequence e of thoughts. 1) Basically they want a return to the Wild West. 2) Except the WW often had localized gun laws, ie turn them into the sherif on arriving to else. 3) Because even Wild West lawmen got the equation, guns = gun violence. 4) The NRA would flip out about police confiscation if an officer tried that today. 5) The NRA would deem the Wild West a left wing police state of tyranny. 6) The current USA has less restrictions on guns than the fucking Wild West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 On 5/25/2018 at 3:46 PM, Week said: Fingers crossed -- still not confirmation of fatalities. Sounds like a case of a good guy with hands that stopped the shooting from being worse. https://www.apnews.com/3054e67879c740fdb3d5c2945268ac59/The-Latest:-Police-working-on-how-Indiana-student-got-guns Just to be clear -- didn't meant to come off as anything negative to you in my previous post. I was a bit curt in asking the question. The news this morning says the 13-year-old girl who was shot is alive. I didn't see about the teacher / adult who was shot. As for those who say that when every single person is armed and violence continues it will be brown people who are blamed. Well, THEY have been blaming brown people for the violence (see what you make us do?????) since the days of the colonies. Reagan and Co. were really great on blaming African Americans. Dog Whistles never die, but with the dumbster they don't bother with dog whistles -- see among other of his howlings, his campaigns against a "gang" on Long Island supposedly exported to us from -- I dunno, Central America, Mexico -- all violent criminals and rapists wreaking havoc all over the island. Of course the people who live there haven't a clue what he's howling about because this tsunami of gang violence doesn't exist as far as they know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 Communities, cities and states can't fight off the white supremacist, NRA (provided lobbying and propaganda funding by Russia) cray crays' determination to put guns absolutely everywhere, because, you know, 2nd amendment -- but Big Biz, i.e. insurance corporations can -- is there a problem here? Quote https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/one-roadblock-to-arming-teachers-insurance-companies/2018/05/26/59d6c704-5f7e-11e8-8c93-8cf33c21da8d_story.html?utm_term=.c3f03923a6fc Kansas has a problem: It has a law allowing teachers to carry guns in the classroom, but almost no schools are using it because insurance companies refuse to provide coverage if they do. As EMC Insurance, the largest insurer of schools in Kansas, explained in a letter to its agents, the company “has concluded that concealed handguns on school premises poses a heightened liability risk.” Then came the Parkland, Fla., school shooting in February, leading frustrated Republican legislators in Kansas to try forcing the issue with a bill banning “unfair, discriminatory” rates for schools that arm staff. The insurance industry held firm. Last month, the bill failed. “I don’t think insurance companies are notorious anti-gun liberals,” said Mark Tallman, associate executive director for the Kansas Association of School Boards, “so we think they’ve got good reasons for not doing it.” . . . . “There’s not a lot of carriers that want to insure that risk,” Nate Walker, a senior vice president at insurer AmWINS Group. The reaction of insurance companies is notable because they are supposed to evaluate dangers through the dry eye of actuarial science, largely avoiding the heated emotions of the nation’s gun debate, in which one side condemns guns and the other side claims, as Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) did last week, that the best way to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun. . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 8 hours ago, Zorral said: Communities, cities and states can't fight off the white supremacist, NRA (provided lobbying and propaganda funding by Russia) cray crays' determination to put guns absolutely everywhere, because, you know, 2nd amendment -- but Big Biz, i.e. insurance corporations can -- is there a problem here? This is an interesting splinter in the various donors to the same party. On one side, shrill and lunatic gun-nuts screaming to give everyone guns, and on the other, the cold and calculating risk-assessors who either won't want any part of it, or will only be happy with more dead bodies if they can charge more for the premiums. It's a bit disappointing that the insurance companies' concerns were that the heightened risk would cost their bottom line. They could have stated this and also pointed out that their bottom line would be hit because people would be getting shot with guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Malcolm Gladwell provides another explanation for the continuing rate of proliferation of school shootings and shooters in the New Yorker -- "How school shootings catch on": https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercenaryChef Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Zorral said: Malcolm Gladwell provides another explanation for the continuing rate of proliferation of school shootings and shooters in the New Yorker -- "How school shootings catch on": https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence interesting read. I can easily see the case the article makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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