Gun Control: The Tree Of Liberty Must Be Refreshed From Time To Time With The Blood Of Children And Innocents

[Yukle]

I found this on YouTube; while no one has been stupid enough to bring up the argument about violent video games in this thread, it's worth a look for its use of research.

 

[Ormond]

5 hours ago, Yukle said:

I found this on YouTube; while no one has been stupid enough to bring up the argument about violent video games in this thread, it's worth a look for its use of research.

 

Not impressed. Of course the attempt by the NRA and other gun fanatics to put all of the blame for mass shootings on video games is ridiculous. The difference between the USA and other countries on that FORM of violence is of course mostly explained by the guns. But I don't agree with the idea that there is no relationship between violence and consumption of violent media. Within Japan, those who consume more violent media commit more violence. Because of their strict gun laws, that thankfully is not exhibited as "mass shootings" in Japan. But it still is one (of many) influences on violent behavior.

[Yukle]

2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Not impressed. Of course the attempt by the NRA and other gun fanatics to put all of the blame for mass shootings on video games is ridiculous. The difference between the USA and other countries on that FORM of violence is of course mostly explained by the guns. But I don't agree with the idea that there is no relationship between violence and consumption of violent media. Within Japan, those who consume more violent media commit more violence. Because of their strict gun laws, that thankfully is not exhibited as "mass shootings" in Japan. But it still is one (of many) influences on violent behavior.

The video had a narrower focus than violent media in general. It specifically looked at the data researching the relationship between violent video games and violent behaviour. The data suggests no relation - even a correlation between these two variables.

Playing a video game and watching a film are not processed by the brain in the same way. This is likely as your actions affect what you can see and hear when playing a game, unlike a film. They're probably too different to include in the same studies, at least it's my guess that they are.

[Ormond]

1 minute ago, Yukle said:

The video had a narrower focus than violent media in general. It specifically looked at the data researching the relationship between violent video games and violent behaviour. The data suggests no relation - even a correlation between these two variables.

Playing a video game and watching a film are not processed by the brain in the same way. This is likely as your actions affect what you can see and hear when playing a game, unlike a film. They're probably too different to include in the same studies, at least it's my guess that they are.

I don't think the research on the issue bears out your conjecture in the second paragraph. I think there is research showing that violent video games affect likelihood of violent behavior just as other media do.

I would like to emphasize again that I believe that the problem of gun violence in America would best be tackled by reforming gun laws. That would reduce the death rate way more than anything else. I just think the claim that there is NO correlation between violent video games and any actual violence is a decidedly minority opinion among those who research the issue.

 

[Yukle]

2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

I don't think the research on the issue bears out your conjecture in the second paragraph. I think there is research showing that violent video games affect likelihood of violent behavior just as other media do.

I would like to emphasize again that I believe that the problem of gun violence in America would best be tackled by reforming gun laws. That would reduce the death rate way more than anything else. I just think the claim that there is NO correlation between violent video games and any actual violence is a decidedly minority opinion among those who research the issue.

 

Here's the result of a meta-analysis on the issue. The key is the conclusion:

"Violent video games might have a small correlation with aggressive behavior, emotions and thoughts, but it’s a weak and ultimately meaningless connection that makes little difference in the real world."

[Darth Richard II]

Oh please. Are we going to blame heavy metal and comics next? Not to mention the whole violent media causes violence has been debunked more thouroly then Hitler being alive in Brazil.   

[Darth Richard II]

6 minutes ago, Yukle said:

Here's the result of a meta-analysis on the issue. The key is the conclusion:

"Violent video games might have a small correlation with aggressive behavior, emotions and thoughts, but it’s a weak and ultimately meaningless connection that makes little difference in the real world."

I can’t believe you even had to bring that up, I expected better here.

[Jace, Extat]

Why don't we just blame books? Dangerous ideas in those. 

 

[Darth Richard II]

3 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

Why don't we just blame books? Dangerous ideas in those. 

 

Give it time.

[Jace, Extat]

4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Give it time.

They can have my copy of Everybody Poops when they pry it from my cold, fried chicken greased, dead hands.

[Yukle]

13 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

Why don't we just blame books? Dangerous ideas in those. 

 

I blame speaking. If there was no talking, then kids wouldn't get these ideas.

[Jace, Extat]

5 minutes ago, Yukle said:

I blame speaking. If there was no talking, then kids wouldn't get these ideas.

The constitution protects free speech, fascist!

Don't protect them eardrums though.

[Yukle]

4 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

The constitution protects free speech, fascist!

Don't protect them eardrums though.

That's the thing about America's constitution. It's never wrong. Ever. And can't be changed. Ever.

[Jace, Extat]

Just now, Yukle said:

That's the thing about America's constitution. It's never wrong. Ever. And can't be changed. Ever.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE 2ND AMMENDMENT!!!!!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 hours ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE 2ND AMMENDMENT!!!!!

We can and should. It’s just really difficult.

[Esmenet]

On 5/25/2018 at 2:18 PM, Kalbear said:

It has worked in most places. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Because we have scads of data that indicate gun violence and gun-related crime has gone down when there are stricter laws on guns. 

Well, this is a double-edged argument. Many states where open and concealed carry are permitted, are amongst the lowest in the U.S. per 1,000 capita (which all of these stats are based on). Now, I'm strictly against both of those. I don't like the idea of people walking around with guns, legal or not. But, it is a case for the pro-gun crowd. 

I did research a little more and most people that keep track of this find no correlation between the two. Yet, while browsing the net I came upon an article that got to the point of what I was trying to get across. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/mar/28/viral-image/united-states-third-murders-outlier-cities/

From the article:

Specific reasons for the cities’ high murder rates largely remain a mystery for criminologists, but all are cities with "high poverty levels, inequality, significant segregation, and an entrenched drug trade," Corzine said.

We do see that cities such as St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit and D.C. are typically, year in year out, amongst the cities with highest homicide rates by gun. These states or cities do have stricter gun laws. But, as I was trying to get across, before being attacked and my opinion tossed aside, what do we do to lower the murder rates? I am all for stricter gun laws, but will that stop the murders?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/04/02/guns-are-now-responsible-for-the-largest-share-of-american-homicides-in-over-80-years-federal-mortality-data-show/?utm_term=.2d2e1f30b8e0

From the article:

The spike was so drastic that in 2016, gun homicides accounted for a greater share of all homicides than at any point in the federal record, which contains more than 80 years of complete data for the United States.

So, there is statistical data that shows that gun homicides are on the rise. And, my question is what laws/programs can we pass that will make it drop? Or, is it a matter of addressing poverty, inequality, segregation and the drug trade? Thats what I was getting at. Myself personally think the drug trade to be the #1 issue. The War on Drugs is a failed war. By legalizing marijuana at a federal level, I think, we would instantly see a drop off from gun-related homicides. Lowering the poverty rate is another no-brainer. But, see, this is what I was trying to adress and foster conversation. Yes, while I think that stricter gun laws, the right ones, stricter background checks and such would help, I don't think that its the major issue that will eventually lead to lower gun-related homicides. We need universal health-care, more jobs and an immense effort towards giving those in the inner city a better education. I think that those things will solve the problem much quicker than gun laws. Now, I know this is only my opinion, but I think it a sound observation.

ETA: I guess now ill probably be criticized for the articles I linked. But, I used this as my main source of research. https://www.themarshallproject.org/records/949-murder-rates

Wether or not that is up to the standards of most here, well I can't help that. I think it has alot of good articles in one place on the subject.

[Zorral]

21 hours ago, MercurialCannibal said:

interesting read.  I can easily see the case the article makes.  

This time the NY Times weighs in on school shootings transforming into a peculiarly US version of suicide bombers, an ideology.  One wonders which came first, Gladwell's piece in the New Yorker, or whether he riffed off the research the Times's people were doing?  But then, others, including the Columbine shooter's mom, has been thinking along the same lines.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/us/school-shootings-columbine.html?

Quote

 

The seemingly contagious violence has begun branching off Columbine, researchers say, and is now bringing in more recent attacks, many of them building off the details and media fixation with the last. School gunmen have admitted to investigators that they were now effectively competing with other attackers, in trying to come up with deadlier tactics, and in trying to kill the most people.

“The phenomenon is feeding on itself,” said Peter Langman, a psychologist who is the author of “Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters” and who runs the website SchoolShooters.info. “It’s gaining momentum, and the more there are, the more there will be

 

.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Esmenet said:

Well, this is a double-edged argument. Many states where open and concealed carry are permitted, are amongst the lowest in the U.S. per 1,000 capita (which all of these stats are based on). Now, I'm strictly against both of those. I don't like the idea of people walking around with guns, legal or not. But, it is a case for the pro-gun crowd. 

I did research a little more and most people that keep track of this find no correlation between the two. Yet, while browsing the net I came upon an article that got to the point of what I was trying to get across. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/mar/28/viral-image/united-states-third-murders-outlier-cities/

From the article:

 

 

We do see that cities such as St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit and D.C. are typically, year in year out, amongst the cities with highest homicide rates by gun. These states or cities do have stricter gun laws. But, as I was trying to get across, before being attacked and my opinion tossed aside, what do we do to lower the murder rates? I am all for stricter gun laws, but will that stop the murders?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/04/02/guns-are-now-responsible-for-the-largest-share-of-american-homicides-in-over-80-years-federal-mortality-data-show/?utm_term=.2d2e1f30b8e0

From the article:

 

 

So, there is statistical data that shows that gun homicides are on the rise. And, my question is what laws/programs can we pass that will make it drop? Or, is it a matter of addressing poverty, inequality, segregation and the drug trade? Thats what I was getting at. Myself personally think the drug trade to be the #1 issue. The War on Drugs is a failed war. By legalizing marijuana at a federal level, I think, we would instantly see a drop off from gun-related homicides. Lowering the poverty rate is another no-brainer. But, see, this is what I was trying to adress and foster conversation. Yes, while I think that stricter gun laws, the right ones, stricter background checks and such would help, I don't think that its the major issue that will eventually lead to lower gun-related homicides. We need universal health-care, more jobs and an immense effort towards giving those in the inner city a better education. I think that those things will solve the problem much quicker than gun laws. Now, I know this is only my opinion, but I think it a sound observation.

ETA: I guess now ill probably be criticized for the articles I linked. But, I used this as my main source of research. https://www.themarshallproject.org/records/949-murder-rates

Wether or not that is up to the standards of most here, well I can't help that. I think it has alot of good articles in one place on the subject.

You know what is weird about your so thoughtful post on the causes of gun violence?  Is that you're blaming people of color for this ever-growing consequence of young people killing other young people -- when the vast majority of these school shootings are done by white male kids, not brown ones.

Yes, indeed better health care, job opportunities and education for all is a very good thing, but you are targeting only -- and I quote you here: 

Quote

" ... an immense effort towards giving those in the inner city a better education."

You are approaching this problem from a purely racist, white supremacist perspective, though I will give you the benefit of the doubt and think that it is unconscious racism, i.e. that you were unaware that you were picturing all these killings as being committed by people with skin that is black or brown -- when the facts are quite different.

[lessthanluke]

2 hours ago, Esmenet said:

 

 

We do see that cities such as St. Louis, Chicago, Detroit and D.C. are typically, year in year out, amongst the cities with highest homicide rates by gun. These states or cities do have stricter gun laws.

State/city level gun laws are kind of irrelevant with regards to gun crime numbers are they not? As someone could just get guns from the next state over.

 

[Esmenet]

13 minutes ago, Zorral said:

You know what is weird about your so thoughtful post on the causes of gun violence?  Is that you're blaming people of color for this ever-growing consequence of young people killing other young people -- when the vast majority of these school shootings are done by white male kids, not brown ones.

Yes, indeed better health care, job opportunities and education for all is a very good thing, but you are targeting only -- and I quote you here: 

You are approaching this problem from a purely racist, white supremacist perspective, though I will give you the benefit of the doubt and think that it is unconscious racism, i.e. that you were unaware that you were picturing all these killings as being committed by people with skin that is black or brown -- when the facts are quite different.

I'm not referring to school/mass shootings, never have in any of my posts. Yes, the majority of inner city people are of color. How does that make me racist? People are too quick to throw that word around. I imagine you believe in white privilege, no? Well, that makes rhe case that by just being white, you are at an advantage. I'm talking about murder by gun rates in inner cities. Would it be false that the majority of those are committed by non whites? Its why I think giving those in the inner city slums, where these murders occur, and are overwhelmingly African-American, bwtter education, healthcare and legalizing marijuana would benefit this portion of society. Its not a racist comment, it's fact.