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Heresy 206: of Starks and Walls

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15 minutes ago, JNR said:

As for the idea a direwolf moved from north of the Wall to south of the Wall, GRRM has explicitly told us that direwolves were hunted to extinction north of the Wall... 

...though some in Heresy have made a curious habit of believing the author of the series must be wrong, and they must be right.

He did indeed say that, but there was obviously some confusion between north and south/left and right here. Not only is it absurd to suppose that they had been hunted to extinction in the great unknown north of the Wall, but not south of it, but in the text as written by Mr Martin, Benjen Stark speaks of he and the other rangers hearing them of a night time on their rangings.

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20 minutes ago, JNR said:

I think all knowledge of the Gate vanished from the Watch long, long before it was abandoned.  Thousands of years ago.

As to that one I do agree.

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34 minutes ago, JNR said:

I doubt there's any connection between Bran and the entity known as the PtwP, and I don't think the 3EC is concerned with candidates for the role.

I would have to agree, as making Bran fit TPtwP begins by first throwing out almost all context we have to draw upon for TPtwP in the first place: what the GoHH says of his/her lineage, everything that Melisandre has said, Aemon's comment about Dany's dragons proving that she's the one they were looking for, etc.
 

34 minutes ago, JNR said:

Also, for the dragons to be Dany's, they would have to be in or connected to Asshai in some sense.

If Illyrio is to be believed, Dany's eggs came from the Shadow Lands, so that may be enough of a connection--though, personally, I'd always read that passage as either implying that there are still living dragons to be found in those lands, or symbolizing that, in magical terms, Asshai/the Shadow is to Fire as 'the heart of winter' is to Ice.

Edited by Matthew.

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7 minutes ago, Matthew. said:

I would have to agree, as making Bran fit TPtwP begins by first throwing out almost all context we have to draw upon for TPtwP in the first place: what the GoHH says of his/her lineage, everything that Melisandre has said, Aemon's comment about Dany's dragons proving that she's the one they were looking for, etc.
 

If Illyrio is to be believed, Dany's eggs came from the Shadow Lands, so that may be enough of a connection--though, personally, I'd always read that passage as either implying that there are still living dragons to be found in those lands, or symbolizing that, in magical terms, Asshai/the Shadow is to Fire as 'the heart of winter' is to Ice.

I agree with the latter, but as to the former, whilst the Targaryens are or were looking to find the "Prince" amongst their own, the Red Lot don't seem so particular. While its convenient to refer to Bran as a prince in discussion I think that there is a wider expectation of a chosen or expected one and given the way GRRM constantly warns of dodgy prophecies and and not getting what you expect, I can quite easily see Azor Ahai or the PTWP being something very different from what is expected = but that's something we can explore in Heresy 207:commie:

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42 minutes ago, JNR said:

I doubt there's any connection between Bran and the entity known as the PtwP, and I don't think the 3EC is concerned with candidates for the role.

You just fill in an application form.Like anyone else.

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2 hours ago, redriver said:

Just two White Walkers/Others in the mummer's version of the prologue.The 13 appear in a scene with Craster's lad.

I've read another version of this from LML.The idea being that through being undead and resurrected like Coldhands the 13 are better able to deal with the Long Night conditions and defeat the Others/White Walkers.

Gives agency to the Ironborn's mantra does it not?

 

 

Depends on what you're implying.

I believe the wildlings are Ironborn descendants confined behind the Wall, and that their magic was sealed and warded within the Black Gate of the Wall. The wildlings are the Others, and they create white walkers by sacrificing Children in order to work magic combining water with air (Drowned God and Storm God). They're called Others, because while they are First Men, the rest of the First Men wished to separate themselves from those who are considered abominations.

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