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StoneColdJorahMormont

what do the white walkers want?

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I haven't read the books so only go by the show.... with the walking dead the walkers need is to feed... it over powers any other thoughts/feelings etc... so that explains why they act the way they do and even when they have eaten every last human/animal they will float around and die off with starvation over time.

But the white walkers ? what drives them ? do they have a lust for blood ? what will be their end game... if leaving westeros isn't a possibility once they have taken every living being and turned them.... then what ? do they just chill have a few beers... tell tales of the battle.... hit up a few walker brothels.. from what we have seen they don't interact with each other well maybe the very few generals do... but the rest of the raised army are just on autopilot.

So basically what is their goal... why the need to take over westeros what do they gain that they didn't have if they just stayed far north out of the rest of westero's way, they don't need to kill to survive, they don't need the land to plant crops/live, it's not like they are eating the humans.. it seems like there is no purpose to the attack unless i'm missing something ?

Some might argue all wars are the same, but whenever someone moves to take anothers land it is usually for gain of some sort, be it food,land.money etc.... all things the walkers don't need.

 

 

Edited by StoneColdJorahMormont

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Maybe they are running from something worse than them even farther north? Maybe east essos and North westeros are attached and they are trying to get away from something over there? Maybe the wall wasn't built to keep them out, just like it wasn't built to keep the wildlings out? Nobody knows why. The only facts we know are that the children turned the night king. The night king is running the show and raising the dead, then controlling them all with his mind. And they use Crasters son's for something.

My best guess is that the first long night concluded with a pact. I think the Night King is probably a Stark, and the end game is winterfell/king of winter. I think "there must always be a stark in wintefell" and "the north remembers" are important to the end game.

Episode 1 starts with Ned stark receiving two warnings ( I believe from the white walkers). They sent the nights watch guy to tell Ned about them. Then he beheaded the guy. Then I believe they warned Ned not to leave winterfell with the dire wolf/stag setup. Direwolves haven't been south of the wall in hundreds of years before this. Then Ned dies, then Rob dies...then we see the night king for the first time. Then neither the north or the Starks can remember anything. No Starks are at winterfell for the longest time, so the white walkers are really on the move now. Then the North let Ramsey Bolton kill the last remaining stark, Rickon. There are still no Starks at winterfell. Jon is Targaryian, sansa is Lannister/Bolton, Arya is no one, Bran is no longer bran stark and is now the three eyed raven. The pact is broken.

The pact that ended the first long night could have been that if there are no legitimate starks in line to rule winterfell as king of winter, then the Night King and his people (Im guessing there are more of them that stayed back in the land of always winter) would be able to. The show is called game of thrones after all. The Night King may just be exactly like Stannis. When they get to winterfell, maybe they could die, or live again, or just have more land. Who knows? I could be completely wrong and they are just trying to get little Sam back. But I'm almost certain they are not trying to wipe everyone off the planet. 

 

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On 3/7/2018 at 5:07 PM, Onion Hound said:

Maybe they are running from something worse than them even farther north? Maybe east essos and North westeros are attached and they are trying to get away from something over there? Maybe the wall wasn't built to keep them out, just like it wasn't built to keep the wildlings out? Nobody knows why. The only facts we know are that the children turned the night king. The night king is running the show and raising the dead, then controlling them all with his mind. And they use Crasters son's for something.

My best guess is that the first long night concluded with a pact. I think the Night King is probably a Stark, and the end game is winterfell/king of winter. I think "there must always be a stark in wintefell" and "the north remembers" are important to the end game.

Episode 1 starts with Ned stark receiving two warnings ( I believe from the white walkers). They sent the nights watch guy to tell Ned about them. Then he beheaded the guy. Then I believe they warned Ned not to leave winterfell with the dire wolf/stag setup. Direwolves haven't been south of the wall in hundreds of years before this. Then Ned dies, then Rob dies...then we see the night king for the first time. Then neither the north or the Starks can remember anything. No Starks are at winterfell for the longest time, so the white walkers are really on the move now. Then the North let Ramsey Bolton kill the last remaining stark, Rickon. There are still no Starks at winterfell. Jon is Targaryian, sansa is Lannister/Bolton, Arya is no one, Bran is no longer bran stark and is now the three eyed raven. The pact is broken.

The pact that ended the first long night could have been that if there are no legitimate starks in line to rule winterfell as king of winter, then the Night King and his people (Im guessing there are more of them that stayed back in the land of always winter) would be able to. The show is called game of thrones after all. The Night King may just be exactly like Stannis. When they get to winterfell, maybe they could die, or live again, or just have more land. Who knows? I could be completely wrong and they are just trying to get little Sam back. But I'm almost certain they are not trying to wipe everyone off the planet. 

 

Then why are they killing everyone they come across and turning them into zombies to murder more people to make more zombies?

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3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Then why are they killing everyone they come across and turning them into zombies to murder more people to make more zombies?

We have seen the night king and 12 other white walkers at one time. That's not a very big army. (We know sam is crasters 100th boy, but we have not seen near that many white walkers). So, killing wildlings and resurrecting them to be his army is probably easier for the night king than sending for the golden company or asking Lyanna Mormont for support. He can let the wights stay dead whenever he accomplishes his goal, whatever that may be. 

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I think their purpose is to protect the weirwoods . I like to compare NK with Ultron. In age of ultron Ultron was created to make peace , but he tought as long as humans exist there couldn't be peace. I think it's the same with Night king , created to protect the weirwoods but he thinks as long as warm blooded creatures exists the weirwoods will die.

So in short they wants to freeze the world to protect the weirwoods , ice preserves after all. So the Night king is basically just taking his job very seriously . 

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44 minutes ago, LordImp said:

I think their purpose is to protect the weirwoods . I like to compare NK with Ultron. In age of ultron Ultron was created to make peace , but he tought as long as humans exist there couldn't be peace. I think it's the same with Night king , created to protect the weirwoods but he thinks as long as warm blooded creatures exists the weirwoods will die.

So in short they wants to freeze the world to protect the weirwoods , ice preserves after all. So the Night king is basically just taking his job very seriously . 

I may be wrong, but the 2nd long night would have happened during the andal invasion if this was the case. The Andals destroyed more weirwoods than the first men I'm guessing.

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44 minutes ago, Onion Hound said:

I may be wrong, but the 2nd long night would have happened during the andal invasion if this was the case. The Andals destroyed more weirwoods than the first men I'm guessing.

There is known that the First men destroyed a lot of weirwoods , enough for the Children to create the WW. 

What do you mean with 2nd long night ? There has only been one LN as far as we know. 

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1 hour ago, LordImp said:

There is known that the First men destroyed a lot of weirwoods , enough for the Children to create the WW. 

What do you mean with 2nd long night ? There has only been one LN as far as we know. 

I'm saying that the white walkers coming back right now is the 2nd long night, and should have started earlier if they were trying to protect the weirwoods. There hasn't been much destroying of the weirwoods recently that would piss off the night king enough to come out of hibernation all of the sudden. The only weirwood that has been destroyed in this timeline is the one Leaf blew up because of the white walkers. 

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1 hour ago, Onion Hound said:

I'm saying that the white walkers coming back right now is the 2nd long night, and should have started earlier if they were trying to protect the weirwoods. There hasn't been much destroying of the weirwoods recently that would piss off the night king enough to come out of hibernation all of the sudden. The only weirwood that has been destroyed in this timeline is the one Leaf blew up because of the white walkers. 

I'll correct myself , I don't think the weirwoods is the reason they " woke up" . I'm just saying that now that they have returned they will finish their job. 

As for what woke them up I don't know .

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 In the same way that Bran can warg into the mind of others, the NK can animate dead. I don't think they are individuals reanimated. I believe they are all the Night King using each one as thralls. 

As for their goal I'm not certain at all. But at times I feel like the WW are a metaphor for a global warming ice age. The "ice" consumes the world and forces it to be reborn anew. Like a cleansing or something. I think the books and the show are too morally grey for the NK to be evil in the sense that we understand the word. If a volcano destroys a country, is the volcano evil?

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On 12/03/2018 at 8:25 AM, Onion Hound said:

I'm saying that the white walkers coming back right now is the 2nd long night, and should have started earlier if they were trying to protect the weirwoods. There hasn't been much destroying of the weirwoods recently that would piss off the night king enough to come out of hibernation all of the sudden. The only weirwood that has been destroyed in this timeline is the one Leaf blew up because of the white walkers. 

If we are talking about the TV Series. What about the weir wood tree. Melisandre had burnt.

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They are an ill-conceived, non-thought out device coz, you know, zombies are so cool and even cooler a something that controls them.  But the white walkers are no more thought-out and with purpose than purposely all-devouring zombies, so, fail. Shrug.

There had to be an Ultimate Supernatural Big Bad because this is fantasy, and initially it felt cool and clever to update the Dark Lord as the dead (a smaller device in the ur Big Fat Fantasy of LOTR), especially as zombies had become such a thing, equivalent to bacon a Thing, though, obvs, not bacon, certainly without the many purposes of bacon's existence.  But zombies really have no purpose, individually or en masse, which is why they're zombies in the first place, perhaps.

It sure does feel that it is with the Dead that the book series stalled out -- didn't know what to do with them -- other than destroy them all, but then it wouldn't be Grim Dark and not LOTR, so what to do, what to do.

 

 

Edited by Zorral

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I agree mostly with Zorral, but believe there are big differences between the books and the show.

In the Show, they appear to be a weapon created by the Children of the Forest to remove Men from Westeros.  I think that is their purpose: they will not rest until all men are destroyed everywhere on the continent.  They were a weapon that the creators could not control and even wiped them out.  This is a trope that has been used many times in fantasy and fiction, like the Doomsday Machine from Star Trek.

In the Books I think they are much more sinister.  I believe that they are servants of the Other (thus being called "Others/Other's") who lives in the far dark north.  There is a dichotomy between Ice and Fire, and both are villains seeking influence in the world.  It's similar to the Shadows and Vorlons in Babylon 5.  I feel it may be similar to how the Shadows come out every few millennia to wipe out civilization so it can start over).

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It's why I think this is the least interesting part of the show. It really seems to be as simple as kill all humans. In the novels there seems to be a bit more to it, and Melisandre's vision of Bran in conjunction with the Great Other was thought provoking, but only a bit more. Really the I find the fantasy elements of this show the least interesting part of it, compared to the political maneuvering and the struggles of the characters.

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