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GAROVORKIN

Why Does the Political Right And Left Feel the Need to Demonize Each Other ?

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Sun Worshipper said:

A Song of Ice and Fire rose to popularity and fame in good part due to George R.R. Martin's disregard for the traditional good-and-evil and black-and-white dichotomy found throughout the fantasy genre. Instead he focuses on shades of grey and moral ambiguity, showing that there is sympathy and kindness as well as cruelty and hate on both sides of any given  conflict.

In the largest internet forum dedicated to his works, however, you will find most of the fanbase seems not to have noticed. Instead they are far more interested in orcs and elves. They are heroes all in gold and white fighting monstrous goblins who care for naught but destruction and suffering. Perhaps this shouldn't be an ASOIAF forum at all? Perhaps a Chronicles of Narnia theme, or any other such children's story, would better reflect the attitudes and sensibilities of the users here?

I mean sure, in so far as he gave the bad guys the occasional moment of acting like a human being. But to put it bluntly Hitler is not a good guy just because he liked animals. As Stannis pointed out, and I imagine is going to bite him in the ass, one good deed does not wash away the bad. So yeah, the worlds not black and white and most people are shades of grey, but some people are a pretty fucking dark grey and they seem to congregate on the Republican side of things.

Your interpretation of grey and grey morality seems to be "therefore everyone's the same" mines decidedly not.

Edited by TrueMetis

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Also, note that in ASOIAF while political conflict can have multiple, nuanced sides not a single fucking person is trying to bargain with the Others

There are times when both sides have a point. The Tywin Lannister line 'why is it better to have a battle that kills 20,000 than murder 200 at dinner?' rings true here. We aren't at that point any more. We're at the 'we pretty much 100% oppose people who want to kill us and turn us into blue-eyed zombies'. 

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17 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Tbf, most of the GOP leadership called for Moore to step down after the accusations started to surface. Republican voters backed Moore, as did Trump when it came down to a child molester vs a Democrat. Moore was (almost) a failure of the American voters, not the system.

Nope. This is not true. They backed down, then they saw they might lose the seat, then they went all in on backing Moore again.

Quick google example:

Quote

 

On Monday, President Trump made explicit what he had long made clear in practice: He wholeheartedly endorses Moore for Senate, despite multiple allegations of sexual misconduct involving teenage girls. Later in the evening, the Republican National Committee announced it would reopen the money pipeline to Alabama it had shut off when the party at large cut Moore loose—or so it seemed—in November.

Even Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who had been one of the earliest and most stalwart Moore denouncers, seems to have backed off his most fiery statements. On November 13, McConnell said, “I think he should step aside.” On Sunday, on ABC’s This Week, he hedged: “I’m going to let the people of Alabama make the call,” adding that “the Ethics Committee will have to consider the matters that have been litigated in the campaign should that particular candidate win.”

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/roy-moore-re-endorsements/547529/

The GOP officially backed Roy Moore right till the end, with only a brief blip in the middle where they thought they had to be seen not doing so for the media before they realised their base didn't care and they didn't want to lose the seat.

Basically the same shit that went down with the Pussy Grab tape and Trump.

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Why must the Left criticize the party of Lessers you say?

Because standing against evil has no rest, blocking those that would prey on the vulnerable is a dutybound calling for all conscientious opposers of the exploitive, evil, motives of that depraved animal known as the deceptive conservative. whose ulterior motives must be exposed at every turn for the safety of the republic.

In short, its your duty to oppose these bastards.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Shryke said:

Nope. This is not true. They backed down, then they saw they might lose the seat, then they went all in on backing Moore again.

Quick google example:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/roy-moore-re-endorsements/547529/

The GOP officially backed Roy Moore right till the end, with only a brief blip in the middle where they thought they had to be seen not doing so for the media before they realised their base didn't care and they didn't want to lose the seat.

Basically the same shit that went down with the Pussy Grab tape and Trump.

Anyone big besides McConnell flip back after mid-November? IIRC Ryan, Romney, Kasich, McCain etc. kept the line into December that he should step down. I don't follow conservative media as much though, and nothing the GOP does surprises me at this point.

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Also, note that in ASOIAF while political conflict can have multiple, nuanced sides not a single fucking person is trying to bargain with the Others

There are times when both sides have a point. The Tywin Lannister line 'why is it better to have a battle that kills 20,000 than murder 200 at dinner?' rings true here. We aren't at that point any more. We're at the 'we pretty much 100% oppose people who want to kill us and turn us into blue-eyed zombies'. 

It's generally a poor example because it imposes medieval sensibilities onto the discussion of contemporary politics. Even the most "honorable" houses in Westeros (the Starks, the Tullys, etc.) would be considered extremely conservative by modern standards.

Besides, you can look at someone as human and still utterly condemn and oppose everything they stand for. Like, who reads ASoIaF and roots for the Ironborn?

Edited by Let's Get Kraken

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17 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Anyone big besides McConnell flip back after mid-November? IIRC Ryan, Romney, Kasich, McCain etc. kept the line into December that he should step down. I don't follow conservative media as much though, and nothing the GOP does surprises me at this point.

The quote shows the Republican National Committee started backing him again. They are literally the only ones that really matter here and are reflective of party leadership's views on who they should back. He was backed by the people who's actually job it is to back candidates for the Republican party. There's no ambiguity or wiggle room here.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

 

Like, who reads ASoIaF and roots for the Ironborn?

Trump voters. 

The Oldtown Times sends a maester out to the Iron Islands every couple of years to write long think-pieces about the neglected salt voters and their despair over the decline of the reaving and raping industries.

Edited by DanteGabriel

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6 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Trump voters. 

The Oldtown Times sends a maester out to the Iron Islands every couple of years to write long think-pieces about the neglected salt voters and their despair over the decline of the reaving and raping industries.

Half of them are prolly Bloodraven trolls messing with the system of the Seven Kingdoms.

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It seems my thread Trolled to death. Disappointing:) and very instructive.:) and not with a certain level of entertainment value.:D

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2 hours ago, Sun Worshipper said:

A Song of Ice and Fire rose to popularity and fame in good part due to George R.R. Martin's disregard for the traditional good-and-evil and black-and-white dichotomy found throughout the fantasy genre. Instead he focuses on shades of grey and moral ambiguity, showing that there is sympathy and kindness as well as cruelty and hate on both sides of any given  conflict.

I'd be very very careful about saying what Martin disregards or focuses on without the ending of the books in front of me.
And it's no doubt a digression for the general section, but even at this point in the series, saying that ASOAIF "focuses on shades of grey and moral ambiguity" is quite the exaggeration.
Anyway, I think on the contrary the attitude of the community here on the forum reflects pretty well the content of the books. Most people here are willing to discuss and debate politics and socio-economics, and to try to understand the perspective of the "other" side.
But at the end of the day, when certain lines have been crossed, there's no redeeming some people.

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4 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

It seems my thread Trolled to death. Disappointing:) and very instructive.:) and not with a certain level of entertainment value.:D

Are you aware of how childish you come off when you say stuff like that?

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Let's Get Kraken said:

Are you aware of how childish you come off when you say stuff like that?

With the amount of contempt  with which with my thread and its subject matter is being treated. How do you expect me to react? I started  what I had hoped to be a good and interesting thread topic  and now its' being  made into   joke.  It's disappointing  Kraken.:(

 

 

 

 

Edited by GAROVORKIN

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3 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

But at the end of the day, when certain lines have been crossed, there's no redeeming some people.

Just to clarify. You are, I assume, talking about representatives, or political figures, not voters.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Trump voters. 

The Oldtown Times sends a maester out to the Iron Islands every couple of years to write long think-pieces about the neglected salt voters and their despair over the decline of the reaving and raping industries.

 

Im at a loss as what has this comment got to do with the topic ?

Edited by GAROVORKIN

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35 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Trump voters. 

The Oldtown Times sends a maester out to the Iron Islands every couple of years to write long think-pieces about the neglected salt voters and their despair over the decline of the reaving and raping industries.

The glibness of your tongue will never soften the insult between us!

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

The glibness of your tongue will never soften the insult between us!

So much for my Thread topic.:(

Edited by GAROVORKIN

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Just now, GAROVORKIN said:

So much for my Thread topic.:(

I'mma tell you the same thing I told your mother.

"Get the fuck out of my trashcans"

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3 minutes ago, GAROVORKIN said:

 

Im at a loss as what has this comment got to do with the topic ?

Just responding to a fellow poster. 

Have you ever tried reading "How to Start an Interesting Topic That Isn't Just a Cover for Mediocre-Brained Both-Siderism" by Fail Barnegie? You might find it beneficial.

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Just now, Pony Queen Jace said:

I'mma tell you the same thing I told your mother.

"Get the fuck out of my trashcans"

There are some  on the left  think the Left can do no wrong and the right can do nothing right .  This would seem to demonstrates  unwillingness to be self critical.

 

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1 minute ago, DanteGabriel said:

Just responding to a fellow poster. 

Have you ever tried reading "How to Start an Interesting Topic That Isn't Just a Cover for Mediocre-Brained Both-Siderism" by Fail Barnegie? You might find it beneficial.

A good retort Dante . Now your learning .B)

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