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Jova Snow

House Dayne for Aegon? (crackpot theory for TWOW)

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Hello everyone, is anyone up for a crackpot House Dayne discussion for TWOW that doesn't include parentage theories ? 

(Since this is a book discussion and Aegon is Young Griff not Jon, I would love to state it before I begin. ) 

During ASOIAF House Dayne is made of three known members, Lord Edric “Ned” Dayne - lord of Starfall, his aunt Lady Allyria Dayne, and Ser Gerold Dayne of High Hermitage. I will try to talk about all three of their reasons for supporting Aegon. 

The first reason they will support Aegon is sentimental. Ned Dayne is twelve and Allyria is sixteen or seventeen so they will tend to make decisions based on their emotions more. Their uncle/brother Ser Arthur Dayne the Sword of the Morning was a member of KG and a friend to Prince Rhaegar while their aunt/sister Ashara Dayne was Lady in waiting to Elia Martell. Hearing Aegon is alive they may want to support him because that’s what Arthur and Ashara will do.

But is that all? No there are opportunities that will come with supporting Aegon - my friends let’s all put our tinfoil hats on.

As a start we have to go to Queenmaker chapter and the aftermath of it. When Myrcella was wounded by one of the Arianne’s group. No one saw who attacked Myrcella not even Arianne herself and Doran also says how no one saw what happened too but he scapegoated Gerold Dayne and forced him to flee. Let me say I do not think it was Dayne who wounded Myrcella because it seems she was attacked with a knife and from close distant. So who is our culprit? Drey. He was exiled to Norvos to serve Mellario for three years that’s not a punishment even poor Sylvia was married of the Estermonts. Garin is a good candidate too but it was Drey that Myrcella seem to not to trust - these two are also likely moles in Arianne’s group. Wrongly framed with harming Myrcella of course Gerold Dayne will not trust his liege lord anymore. There is already bad blood between House Dayne and House Martell. Before Nymeria came to Dorne Martells were a nothing house and Daynes were kings of the Torentine. Gerold Dayne already disses Garin the Great for his failure against Valyria and maybe even questions the sanity of Nymeria like I do, because who seeks refuge in Sothoryos. And the last Dayne king - Vorian Dayne were exiled to the Wall. If Daynes want to rise against Martells in a rebellion now it's the time because Dorne seem to suffer from a drought that doesn't get any better + Doran is weak, Oberyn is dead, Quentyn is dead, Arianne might die. There must be a reason why Dayne's avoided Martells after Elia's death. Ashara was a lady in waiting to Dornish princess but Allyria is nowhere near Arianne and doesn't listed as a friend of hers. She is bethored to a marching Lord not a Dornish one and certainly not to Quentyn. Even Edric Dayne himself is a squire for Beric and not Oberyn. Or a friend to young Trystane. 

What can we expect from TWOW when it comes to Darkstar? For him to win against Obara and Areo, and for him to tell Balon Swann the identity of the true culprit. Then when they learn of GC and Aegon's arrival to Stormlands, Darkstar may go to Aegon to support him too. So can Gerold Dayne be a KG for Aegon? I am not saying he will stole Dawn or something, there is an office of Sword of the Morning so maybe Dawn is protected by them and they chose who will yield it, am office also may have it's own oaths so I don't think Gerold Dayne will attempt to do something like that. But he could still have a place in KG, a good parallel with Aegon the Conquer because he had a hedge knight in his KG and Joffrey Dayne was a knight during his reign too. So Darkstar will be close to Aegon. Or maybe he will lead the Dornish troops for Aegon? hmm there was a Dayne ancestor that burned down the Citadel and if Aegon doesn't make his way up to Riverlands then he may head towards the Reach. 

Next point to discuss is being a Queen Consort for Aegon. Yes Jon Connington said Aegon will be single for Daenerys but there is no harm in to mention Allyria Dayne is single after her bethored Beric Dondarrion died. And if people can say Aegon will marry Arianne although it has no pros for Aegon and Arianne has to support Aegon as her blood without any demands there is no harm in to speculate Allyria marrying Aegon. Lady Dyana Dayne was wife of Maekar the Anvil but died before he become king, Lady Clarisse Dayne was seen as a suitable wife for Maegor Targaryen until twenty three years old barren maiden Ceryse Hightower was chosen. These are two near misses for House Dayne and Allyria is their third chance. So who will talk with Aegon about Allyria? Maybe Edric Dayne himself? We know after Beric died he left the BWB, I could see him being accompanied by Thoros of Myr and going to Stormlands to bury Beric Dondarrion after his final death. And Edric and Thoros is the reason I think Aegon might go to Riverlands. Stoneheart is hanging everyone, Tully's are still besieged and Riverlands suffer most from War of the Five Kings. 

[∆ extra tinfoil ∆ assumes Ned + Ashara = Jon + Allyria ] 

The first Daenerys married a Martell prince while her brother Daeron the Good married Mariah Martell to unite Dorne with rest of the seven kingdoms. Now it is North that is independent and maybe well will see a marriage between post resurretion Jon Stark and his sister. That sister maybe Sansa too but with her dubious marriage to a Lannister parentage of Jon and Allyria comes in handy to again highlight the fact she can be the Queen of Aegon. 

Aegon is here and Dayne’s are ready to strike I say. I wonder what kind of strings Allyria pull in her castle too. Because we aren't given any insight to Starfall and if she doesn't have any plans she is either incompenent or so fucking laid back to care what is going on in the realm. We know nothing about her, we don’t even know if she is the lady type or a warrior type or both or how she looks like. She could be out here wrecking havoc and we don’t know what’s her deal.

Last reason is Thoros of Myr and faith of the R'hllor. In Essos they support Daenerys who is stuck in Mereen but Aegon is here and Thoros and Melisandre will seek him for sure. Aegon was taught the mysteries of Faith by Septa Lemore who is soiled and we never know what she is teaching to him maybe Aegon will choose fire and blood over seven. 

So what do you think? Will House Dayne really support Aegon or not? Allyria as Queen? Darkstar as KG? Power shift in Dorne? 

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I like it. I am not buying it, but I like the speculation. I think House Dayne will support Daenerys. 

So, I got the idea for these Reach houses backing Aegon from a box in TWOIAF that listed eleven houses descended from Garth Greenhand. Well, there's another box in TWOIAF, for six Dornish king's sent to the Wall where they would have taken the black. Since Martell appears likely to back Aegon in the Second Dance of the Dragons, perhaps these Dornish houses will defy Martell and follow Daenerys against Aegon...

Yronwood In Daenerys I, Game 3, we learned that Dorne was one of the regions of Westeros, and that Princess Elia of Dorne and her children were murdered during the Sack of King’s Landing. The first time we learned of House Martell’s existence was in Sansa  V, Game 57, when Joffrey commanded “Doran Martell, Prince of Dorne, and all his sons,” “to present themselves and swear their fealty to Joffrey,” or to “be adjudged traitors, their lands and titles forfeit to the throne.” Varys told us in Eddard XV, Game 58 that the Martells still brood on the murder of Princess Elia and her babes. So, we knew that there was blood between Houses Martell and Lannister. Until his premature death, Dorne was generally expected to back Renly, but in Tyrion IV, Clash 17, we learned that Doran Martell had called his banners, but had so far remained aloof from the War of the Five Kings. From the Appendix to Game, we knew that Houses Yronwood, Fowler, and Dayne were among eight principal houses sworn to House Martell of Dorne. In The Tales of Dunk and Egg, we bagan to see the rivalry between Dorne and the Marcher Lords of the Stormlands, and notwithstanding the physical descriptions of the Daynes, we learned that Dornishmen tended to have olive skin and dark hair. In Tyrion V, Clash 20, we began to learn that Dorne had a rivalry with the Reach as well as the Marcher Lords. To win House Martell’s allegiance, Tyrion offered to wed Myrcella to Trystane and deliver her into Doran’s power. He also offered Doran a seat on the Small Council and justice for Elia Martell. Interestingly, before Renly’s death, Doran accepted Tyrion’s proposal. Tyrion sent Aerys Oakheart with Myrcella to Dorne, but he understood that Dorne would not march on Stannis or Tyrell. In Sansa I, Storm 6, we learned that Oberyn Martell crippled Willas Tyrell in a tourney mishap several years earlier, and in Tyrion III, Storm 19, we learned that Mace still held the grudge. Tyrion told us in Tyrion V, Storm 38 that there salty Dornishmen lived along the coasts, sandy Dornishmen lived in the deserts and long river valleys, and stony Dornishmen made their fastnesses in the passes and heights of the Red Mountains. The salty Dornishmen had the most Rhoynish blood, and the stony Dornishmen the least. After meeting Oberyn, and later Arianne, we realized that Houses Yronwood, Dayne, Fowler, Blackmont, and Mandwoody were stony Dornishmen, and House Martell were salty Dornishmen. And we learned that there was blood between House Yronwood and Oberyn Martell. Doran sent Oberyn, the saltiest Dornishman of all, to claim Doran’s seat on the council and accept the Lannister justice Tyrion promised. When Tywin tried to appease Oberyn by naming the deceased Amory Lorch for the murders of Elia and her children, Oberyn likely poisoned Tywin secretly, and then offered to stand for Tyrion against Gregor for Cersei in Tyrion’s trial by battle for the murder of Joffrey. In the Appendix to Storm, we learned that the Lord of Yronwood was named Anders. In The Captain of the Guards, Feast 2, we learned that Doran had a host in the Prince's Pass, and Lord Anders had another in the Boneway. In payment for the Yronwood blood Oberyn had spilled, Doran sent his son Quentyn to foster at Yronwood, where he served as page and squire and took his knighthood. And we learned that House Yronwood rode with Bittersteel during three of the Blackfyre Rebellions, presumably, against House Martell. Arianne expected to have to fight House Yronwood eventually over the question of Dornish succession, and she told us that Yronwood was the most powerful Martell bannerman. Doran told us that Anders was more of a father to Quentyn than Doran was. On Doran’s order, Anders’s heir Cletus, Yronwood’s maester, and three of Lord Yronwood's best young knights were dispatched with Quentyn on a long and perilous voyage, with an uncertain welcome at its end. All but Archibald Yronwood and Gerris Drinkwater would perish. Before he died, Quentyn noted that Anders had sent his own son to keep Quentyn safe. Although Gerris blamed Quentyn’s failure on Daenerys, Archibald, who impressed Barristan as the true steel, did not appear to blame her, instead looking to aid Barristan so they might return to Dorne. In Winds, Arriane suggests that there is a rivalry between the Sand Snakes and House Yronwood, and that she has always been closer to the Sand Snakes.

Dayne Since Gerold Dayne was blamed for the death of Arys Oakheart, and since Daynes have been killing Oakhearts for thousands of years, it seems likely that these two houses could stand against each other in the Second Dance of the Dragons. House Dayne and House Hightower also have a history of fighting against each other. There's also the history with House Martell. Nymeria took the Sword of the Morning as her third successive consort. However, Martell's daughter, not Dayne's son, succeeded Nymeria as ruler of Dorne. 

Fowler We really don't know much about House Fowler, but we do know that traditionally, House Fowler is as great a house as Yronwood and Dayne. Like House Dayne, they joined Nymeria and House Martell against House Yronwood after their king had been sent off to take the black. Nymeria Sand is very close to the Fowler twins, and Lord Franklin Fowler has never gotten along with Anders Yronwood. 

Uller The Ullers “raised a grim, stinking seat beside the sulfurous yellow waters of the Brimstone” The World of Ice and Fire. Like Houses Dayne and Fowler, House Uller joined Nymeria against House Yronwood after she had sent it’s lord off to take the black. Before she wed a Dayne, Nymeria wed an Uller, but it does not appear that they had any sons. Harmen Uller, Lord of Hellholt, and his brother Ser Ulwyck accompanied Oberyn to King’s Landing, and Ellaria Sand, Oberyn’s paramour and mother of the youngest sandsnakes, was the natural daughter of Harmen. Ellaria worshiped a Lysene love goddess. This Lysene Love goddess could be the Weeping Lady of Lys. If so, the author might be drawing a connection between love and death. Arianne intended to crown Myrcella at Hellholt. When Arianne pondered which house other than Yronwood might cow her father, she settled on Fowler and Uller. She decided to approach Fowler though since, “Half of the Ullers are half-mad, the saying went, and the other half are worse.” Although Doran said, “Ellaria and her daughters are happily ensconced at the Water Gardens,” Arianne noted that Harmen was probably upset by Doran’s imprisoning Ellaria and the youngest of the sandsnakes. The Princess in the Tower, Feast 40. Along with Dagos Manwoody and the Fowler twins, the Ullers declined Ricasso’s toast on behalf of Doran in The Watcher, Dance. Realizing that unrest was coming to Dorne, Ellaria scattered her four sandsnakes, taking Loreza with her to Hellholt, leaving Dorea at the Water Gardens to play in the pools and Obella at Sunspear to serve as a cupbearer, and sending Elia off with Arianne. Would three little natural granddaughters born of his own natural daughter be sufficient hostages to prevent House Uller from Aegon? 

Blackmont would be especially interesting since "Lady Blackmont's brood" is at the Water Gardens guarded by only ten spears. Those are interesting details the author gave us. Fluff? Since Lady Larra Blackmont accompanied Oberyn to King’s Landing with her daughter Jynessa and her son Perros, I would assume Jynessa and Perros are the brood at the Water Gardens. Notably, House Blackmont continued to fight with House Yronwood against House Martell, even after Nymeria had thrown down their king. Along with Houses Yronwood, Fowler, and Manwoody, House Blackmont had a long history of fighting with the Marcher Lords.

Manwoody The seat of House Manwoody of Kingsgave could be a hint that they will fight against a soon to be King Aegon. Lord Dagos Manwoody, his brother Ser Myles, his sons Mors and Dickon all accompanied Oberyn to King’s Landing. Along with the Fowler twins and the Ullers, Dagos declined Ricasso’s toast on behalf of Doran in The Watcher, Dance.

Edited by Lost Melnibonean

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I don't think Martells will support Aegon because both Doran and Arianne is suspicious of his identity, for good reasons I believe he isn't Elia's son but Lyanna's instead, Arianne and her group doesn't know anything about Jon Connington and Aegon + they were expecting Daenerys and her dragons. Where is Daenerys? Where are the dragons? Where is my son? This is the quote we have from TWOW. Arianne and group can't understand if Aegon and Jon Connington are fake or not, so this suspicion of them will lead them to be careful and cautious which will lead Aegon to search for other forces in Dorne as we know Daemon Sand doesn't want Arianne to go the Storms End although he is genuinely cares for her. Plus even with Elia married to Rhaegar Targaryen, Oberyn was anti-Targaryen as he told stories of Garin the Great and Nymeria to his daughters, Arianne and Garin. Mace Tyrell also doesn't believe Aegon is real and most likely isn't the friend from the Reach. Enters the First Men descendant houses of the Reach who seeks claim to the Highgarden and especially Florents. Who may support Aegon after the deaths of Shireen and Stannis. Edric Storm is a noble bastard, is half Florent and wasn't he taken to Essos? Legimitize him and he becomes the Lord of Stormlands. Dickon Tarly is married to a girl form House Mooton aka another Targaryen loyalist from the Riverlands and a First Men house too if I am not mistaken. Does that means there will a Dance of Dragons or Aegon and Daenerys will fight? Unlikely, as last Targaryens they are allies and the realm doesn't need another pointelss war when the Others are upon them. That's the reason I don't like Blackfyre theories too if Varys was a Targaryen bastard he will be the descendant of Brynden Rivers, hello both are great Maester of Whispers, Brynden had a relationship with Shiera Seastar whose mother from Lys and she can always turn to Essos after Brynden took the black and Brynden Rivers never supported the Blackfyres. Yes Blackfyre is important pre Asoiaf and also explains why there are exiled Weaterosi nobles in Essos but has no place in modern history. 

 

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On 3/5/2018 at 5:30 PM, Jova Snow said:

So what do you think? Will House Dayne really support Aegon or not? Allyria as Queen? Darkstar as KG? Power shift in Dorne? 

House Dayne will support whoever house Martell supports 

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House Dayne is currently led by someone who is living a life of banditry against the crown, so they are not in a position to support anyone. Whatever role the previous generation played, the current generation is largely irrelevant to the story line outside of providing backfill details for past events.

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