All that is gold does not glitter

[Olorin81]

So I could spend all day just reading all these theories people have about the story and characters in the books of ASOIAF. One topic I just recently looked at was about the "Seed is strong" line from Jon Arryn looking for hidden meanings behind it. Along with all the R+L=J and Anti R+L=J theories. It makes me wonder how many instances in the book were there where everything wasn't as GRRM made them seem? Were there any examples of any suprises that made us go "Wow, things aren't really just as they seem"? I mean any far fetched theories liken to the ones you find on here that actually turned out to be true?

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Hmmmmm...

The Lannister’s didn’t kill Jon Arryn.

The Halfhand planned to die.

Arya, Tyrion, Sandro, Davos x2, Brienne, etc didn’t die when it seemed like they had.

The Red Wedding

The Purple Wedding

Bolton is reek, Theon is reek.

The baby who’s head was smashed turns up in Essos.

So more or less all the time...

Shooting stars break the mold... Dayne confirmed

[Olorin81]

What about the Red and Purple wedding were far reaching theories that turned out to be true? I'm sure people saw them coming but they don't seem too far reaching. The baby Aegon turning out to be alive in Essos was a good one, do we really know that he is really Aegon at this point? Yeah the reek we are first introduced to turning out to be Ramsay Bolton was a nice one too, I'm sure a few people probably predicted that one too. Not sure what you mean by Theon is reek though, didn't we see that progression? That part of the books isn't fresh in my mind.

[Bitterblooms]

This is actually a really interesting question for readers like me who came late to the game. (I was only introduced to the series about 3 years ago!) I'd be interested to hear from others who've been part of asoiaf discuss since the nineties!! Any "Oh Sh*t!" or "I knew it!" moments you can remember between books? 

[The Sunland Lord]

Mance is Rhaegar will nail it.

 

[Olorin81]

16 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Mance is Rhaegar will nail it.

 

OOOOH and that's the real reason Mance allowed Jon to join them, he saw his mother in him. I'm sure he was itching to tell Jon the truth, that he was his real father. It all makes sense now. Hahahaha

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, Olorin81 said:

So I could spend all day just reading all these theories people have about the story and characters in the books of ASOIAF. One topic I just recently looked at was about the "Seed is strong" line from Jon Arryn looking for hidden meanings behind it. Along with all the R+L=J and Anti R+L=J theories. It makes me wonder how many instances in the book were there where everything wasn't as GRRM made them seem? Were there any examples of any suprises that made us go "Wow, things aren't really just as they seem"? I mean any far fetched theories liken to the ones you find on here that actually turned out to be true?

As for far fetched theories that turned out to be true, only R+L=J.  Literally everything else, Willa, the fisherman's daughter or Ashara Dayne was there to throw the reader off. 
There were people speculating that Aegon was alive and people started combing the books for a young man with a smashed head.  Nobody saw young griff coming and a sizable portion of this forum think he isn't Rhaegar's son either. 
There were deaths that were faked, but those deaths resolved themselves in the same book (feast and dance were the same book essentially)  and we don't see them die save stoneheart. The wild theories are just that, wild theories that show up because we are now pushing a decade between book releases.
The seed is strong relates very specifically to the Jamie and Cersei relationship and it's discovery by Jon and later headless Ned. Anything else, like Jon somehow knowing that sweetrobin wasn't his, or that Lyssa was banging Petyr are baseless.  
 

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, Olorin81 said:

It makes me wonder how many instances in the book were there where everything wasn't as GRRM made them seem?

That when Cat's throat was cut, it wasn't last time we read about her, and that she returned later as LSH. Aside from this, other things/events were what they seemed to be. Basis for their happening in the future, was clearly outlined in the books, prior those events actually happened.

45 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Anything else, like Jon somehow knowing that sweetrobin wasn't his, or that Lyssa was banging Petyr are baseless.  

"Lysa convinced her husband to give Petyr control of customs at Gulltown around 289 AC, where he increased incomes tenfold, displaying his skill with finances.^[5] Jon Arryn, Hand of the King for King Robert I Baratheon, eventually brought Petyr to court in King's Landing, and within three years, he was named master of coin and appointed to the small council.^[5][7]"

Petyr came to KL in 289, and within three years became Master of coin. 289-290, 290-291, 291-292 - Robin was born in 292, so his conceiving, and Petyr becoming Master of coin, happened in the same year. Thus it seems, that the baby was Lysa's reward from Petyr, for giving him what he wanted - place in small council.

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, Megorova said:

"Lysa convinced her husband to give Petyr control of customs at Gulltown around 289 AC, where he increased incomes tenfold, displaying his skill with finances.^[5] Jon Arryn, Hand of the King for King Robert I Baratheon, eventually brought Petyr to court in King's Landing, and within three years, he was named master of coin and appointed to the small council.^[5][7]"

Petyr came to KL in 289, and within three years became Master of coin. 289-290, 290-291, 291-292 - Robin was born in 292, so his conceiving, and Petyr becoming Master of coin, happened in the same year. Thus it seems, that the baby was Lysa's reward from Petyr, for giving him what he wanted - place in small council.

This is an interesting bit of speculation, and while I think there could be a possibility that sweetrobin could be Petyrs. there would be no reason for Jon tio suspect it. The seed is strong was a specific clue to lead ned to the twincest and illegitimacy of Bob's heirs. He became sick right after that discovery. That, and nothing in the books would hint that petyr fathering a bastard with Lyssa would impact the story. It makes for neat fan speculation, but nothing more, unlike the entire plot of the first book, including the hero's death that  hinged upon the discovery of hte twincest fueled by the clue of "the seed is strong" 

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

there would be no reason for Jon to suspect it. The seed is strong was a specific clue to lead ned to the twincest and illegitimacy of Bob's heirs. He became sick right after that discovery. That, and nothing in the books would hint that petyr fathering a bastard with Lyssa would impact the story.

If Robin is LF's son, then he won't kill him to get The Vale. On the contrary, he may marry Sansa to his son, to get for Robin all three Kingdoms - The North, The Vale and Riverlands.

I don't think that Jon knew about Robin. I think that he was saying that about Cersei's non-Baratheon-looking children.

Though there was reasons for him to suspect. Especially if he realised concept of genetic inheritance. If he realised that Cersei's children are not Robert's, because they look like Lannisters, then maybe he could have realised, that his son also doesn't look like him or Lysa. Because Jon Arryn had blond hair and blue eyes, Lysa had auburn hair and green(?) eyes, and their son has dark hair, which is genetically impossible with those set of parents. Also the boy is small and weak, same as was LF, when he was a child.

[Dorian Martell's son]

5 hours ago, Megorova said:

If Robin is LF's son, then he won't kill him to get The Vale. On the contrary, he may marry Sansa to his son, to get for Robin all three Kingdoms - The North, The Vale and Riverlands.

I don't think that Jon knew about Robin. I think that he was saying that about Cersei's non-Baratheon-looking children.

Though there was reasons for him to suspect. Especially if he realised concept of genetic inheritance. If he realised that Cersei's children are not Robert's, because they look like Lannisters, then maybe he could have realised, that his son also doesn't look like him or Lysa. Because Jon Arryn had blond hair and blue eyes, Lysa had auburn hair and green(?) eyes, and their son has dark hair, which is genetically impossible with those set of parents. Also the boy is small and weak, same as was LF, when he was a child.

Where does it say he had blonde hair and blue eye?

 

[Kandrax]

11 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

There were people speculating that Aegon was alive and people started combing the books for a young man with a smashed head.  Nobody saw young griff coming and a sizable portion of this forum think he isn't Rhaegar's son either. 

I heard that a lot of readers believed, before ADWD, that he is alive, yet after the fifth book many declared him fake.

[Dorian Martell's son]

31 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

I heard that a lot of readers believed, before ADWD, that he is alive, yet after the fifth book many declared him fake.

people are a fickle bunch

[Megorova]

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Where does it say he had blonde hair and blue eye?

In next book.

Spoiler

TWOW, Alayne I:

"Ser Harrold Hardyng looked every inch a lord-in-waiting; clean-limbed and handsome, straight as a lance, hard with muscle. Men old enough to have known Jon Arryn in his youth said Ser Harrold had his look, she knew. He had a mop of sandy blond hair, pale blue eyes, an aquiline nose."

 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

19 hours ago, Olorin81 said:

What about the Red and Purple wedding were far reaching theories that turned out to be true?

We need a little perspective in that these events happen relatively early in the series... so they can only be so far reaching, truly far reaching theories can’t be proved yet since the seriese is still incomplete.

But there were hints to the betrayal each wedding leading up to them, both plot hints and literary ones.

 

19 hours ago, Olorin81 said:

I'm sure people saw them coming but they don't seem too far reaching. The baby Aegon turning out to be alive in Essos was a good one, do we really know that he is really Aegon at this point?

So again perspective, people had long theorized that Aegon was alive... clearly nobody could guess the name “young griff”, but dying his hair was definitely touched on, although as I remember most of those theories involved Daario... soo...

Is it really Aegon? We don’t know, but either way it’s honing to end in a reveal of some long con.

19 hours ago, Olorin81 said:

Yeah the reek we are first introduced to turning out to be Ramsay Bolton was a nice one too, I'm sure a few people probably predicted that one too. Not sure what you mean by Theon is reek though, didn't we see that progression? That part of the books isn't fresh in my mind.

I see what you’re saying... 

I should have stuck to people not being dead... like Bran and Rickon... can’t believe I left them off the list...

But again, any truly long far reaching twist won’t have been revealed yet. Like the parentage of our three original non-Starks.

[Lord Lannister]

Martin's got a reputation for not conforming to the general fantasy tropes now, that paradoxically the unexpected is expected.

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

Abel is Mance.

Rhaegar is Mance.

[Dorian Martell's son]

27 minutes ago, RedGrace that was promised said:

Abel is Mance.

Rhaegar is Mance.

rhaegar is mance who is euron who is tyrion who is arya who is irri who is benjen who is ned who is jory who is tywin who is jason mallister who is viserys who is tansy who is varys who is grif who is dario who is tyrion again who is rhaegar. Get it now? 

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

Arstan is Barristan.

[Jaehaerys Tyrell]

20 hours ago, Megorova said:

That when Cat's throat was cut, it wasn't last time we read about her, and that she returned later as LSH. Aside from this, other things/events were what they seemed to be. Basis for their happening in the future, was clearly outlined in the books, prior those events actually happened.

"Lysa convinced her husband to give Petyr control of customs at Gulltown around 289 AC, where he increased incomes tenfold, displaying his skill with finances.^[5] Jon Arryn, Hand of the King for King Robert I Baratheon, eventually brought Petyr to court in King's Landing, and within three years, he was named master of coin and appointed to the small council.^[5][7]"

Petyr came to KL in 289, and within three years became Master of coin. 289-290, 290-291, 291-292 - Robin was born in 292, so his conceiving, and Petyr becoming Master of coin, happened in the same year. Thus it seems, that the baby was Lysa's reward from Petyr, for giving him what he wanted - place in small council.

Petyr also claims to the Small Council that he’s had sex with Lysa several times. As he thinks the first time they had sex it was Catelyn, and as he was sent away from Riverrun soon after while Lysa married Jon, it’s a certainty that Petyr and Lysa had an affair in King’s Landing, *if* Petyr is telling the truth. And I see no reason why Petyr wouldn’t be having sex with her in order to manipulate her. Although I’m astounded than Jon Arryn didn’t have any suspicions about the pair given than Lysa was clearly persuading him to promote Petyr.