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Jessica Jones Season 2: AKA This Thread Has Spoilers

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8 hours ago, dbunting said:

 

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Putting in spoilers even though thread says spoilers to be safe.. I mean, he got feline distemper from vet, then her doctor says to her in the morgue, "you used up two of your nine lives"...and her last scene, cat like reflexes....I assume if she is in the comics she has some cat like powers? I have no idea since I am show only.

 

In the comics, Patsy Walker = Hellcat

On 3/12/2018 at 8:13 AM, Alarich II said:

- Trish: I don't like her, which in itself would be okay (I also don't like Hogarth, but I get why she acts like she does). But also I don't get her decisions. 

I mean, most of this is set up in S1. We know Trish is an addict, albeit in recovery. We know Trish pushed Jessica to take on a costumed identity and be a hero, living vicariously through her sister. We know she wanted powers herself. I suspected her zeal to find IGH was more about getting powers than taking them down before that was revealed, because that's what made most sense for her character. Trish has never been as 'together' as she appears. 

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Part way into the 4th episode. First, have to say that this season starts off pretty slowly. 4th episode has an absurd amount of cringe-inducing dialog, such that I had to look up the writers. Jack Kenny, who has a producer credit, seems to have only written one other JJ episode, so I’ll put it on him.

Is there a point where the season kicks into gear?

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11 hours ago, dbunting said:

Binged it the last couple days and really enjoyed it. I actually like that it ended like it did. I am not fond of almost every movie / show ending happily, that's not how life works.

I didn't expect, or even want, a happy ending - what I wanted was for her to 

Spoiler

have one single pre-existing relationship she didn't blow up. I like that she was trying a new way of being with Oscar (and thought he was great), and the stuff with Trish was natural, Jeri ok fine, it was specifically Malcolm I wanted her to be better to over the season. I don't think its unrealistic she wasn't, it just wasn't what I wanted.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ran said:

Is there a point where the season kicks into gear?

Well, the crushing angst and predictable betrayals really amp up towards the second half.  

vague spoilers

There are no notable action sequences, practically no displays of "superpowers", and no "bad guy," or even really an identifiable enemy besides unbearable self loathing throughout.  One review I read described it as "like a typical ABC drama wherein occasionally a character will put their fist through a wall."

Edited by The Mance

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Posted (edited)

That's what I was afraid of. The "typical ABC drama" thing. It's feeling jejune. I've started skimming episodes. Will finish it because I started it, but I think this is the last JJ season for me.

Edited by Ran

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Mance said:

Well, the crushing angst and predictable betrayals really amp up towards the second half.  

vague spoilers

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There are no notable action sequences, practically no displays of "superpowers", and no "bad guy," or even really an identifiable enemy besides unbearable self loathing throughout.  One review I read described it as "like a typical ABC drama wherein occasionally a character will put their fist through a wall."

 

Well, this series focuses on the ultimate 'bad guy" --

Spoiler

It's the moms: Alisa, whatever Trish's mom's name is, and Oscar's ex-wife.  It's the people who we are closest to, who we could reasonably presume have our best interests at heart but are for themselves first or damaged first, and who then damage us, who are the big bad in this series.  These aren't Buffy's all suffering maternal Joyces.  These are moms with their own agendas, and those agendas are effed up because they too were effed up and mortally damaged down the line.  I, for one, thought this was great!

Perhaps this all works for me because I don't like superheros at all, and don't read the books. Print canon means nothing.  I like these series for what they are, and what I like about them is where they aren't like the stereotypical tropes of superhero material.

 

However, 'happy ending' -- re Trish:

Spoiler

It looks as though something of Karl's treatment of her had an effect, the way her reflexes kicked in 'super' enough for top of her foot to catch the phone knocked out of her hand, kick it back up to her own hand and she caught it -- all in one smooth arc.  It may be small, but it was something.

 

Edited by Zorral

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7 hours ago, mormont said:

I mean, most of this is set up in S1. We know Trish is an addict, albeit in recovery. We know Trish pushed Jessica to take on a costumed identity and be a hero, living vicariously through her sister. We know she wanted powers herself. I suspected her zeal to find IGH was more about getting powers than taking them down before that was revealed, because that's what made most sense for her character. Trish has never been as 'together' as she appears. 

Maybe I just don't get the junkie brain - although Malcolm, also a recovering addict, seems to handle the inhalator substance and its addictiveness much better. He basically goes for a run and that's it. Whereas Trish descends into a pit of really stupid decisions which in the end leaves her with superpowers and no apparent downsides.

The other thing about Trish is the "sexual abuse in show business" angle. We have one or two emotional scenes and then the whole issue is completely dropped. To me, it feels like the authors wanted to include that element, because it fits so well with the current debate and the overarching themes of the series, but didn't really know what to do with it in terms of character development and so they just left it in as a plot device.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ran said:

That's what I was afraid of. The "typical ABC drama" thing. It's feeling jejune. I've started skimming episodes. Will finish it because I started it, but I think this is the last JJ season for me.

Something clearly went horribly wrong during the conceptualization of this one, and it'll be interesting to hear some stories about whose fault this was once they start coming out (which they eventually do, normally). The drop in quality in everything from plot believability to dialogue to acting is insane. But at this point I'll give Melissa Rosenberg a pass since she was responsible for Season 1 as well, and I suspect I'll give Season 3 a chance when the time comes.

Edited by denstorebog

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2 hours ago, Alarich II said:

Maybe I just don't get the junkie brain - although Malcolm, also a recovering addict, seems to handle the inhalator substance and its addictiveness much better. He basically goes for a run and that's it. Whereas Trish descends into a pit of really stupid decisions which in the end leaves her with superpowers and no apparent downsides.

The other thing about Trish is the "sexual abuse in show business" angle. We have one or two emotional scenes and then the whole issue is completely dropped. To me, it feels like the authors wanted to include that element, because it fits so well with the current debate and the overarching themes of the series, but didn't really know what to do with it in terms of character development and so they just left it in as a plot device.

Except this was written into the show before #MeToo . . . .

https://mic.com/articles/188341/jessica-jones-actor-rachael-taylor-on-the-second-seasons-newfound-relevance-in-the-wake-of-metoo#.p0yPrgubD

 

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On 3/12/2018 at 1:20 AM, Lady Olenna said:

Since the specific jeans have been discussed I actually noticed when she took them off and threw them away because they had blood stains on them. Then she was wearing them again so I guess she just washed them. This is not something I would ever have noticed on my own.  I certainly paid far more attention to the wardrobe of the cast because of this thread, lol. Hogarth has the best wardrobe by far. That black jumpsuit/romper (?) was fantastic. 

I won’t spoil anything for those still watching but I really like Trish even less than I did last season. I am not disappointed that there werent any crossovers from the defenders (found the defenders barely watchable). And I love Oscar.  

She did throw those away, it was a different pair.  Let me get these midterm grades finished and I'll go nitpick the differences.  (says a woman who has 3 identical pairs of tennis shoes to go with her identical jeans).

 

18 hours ago, dbunting said:

 

Some of it went a little overboard for me, the scene where Trish is looking for the inhaler was especially bad, felt forced and overacted. I also felt some of the mother scenes were a little wonky. And are we supposed to just accept that sniper shot happened and the mom didn't kill him as soon as she got her hands on him? Based on what we see of her and her reactions, she would have ripped him apart for hurting her daughter like that. Then the Trish "abilities" was a bit too telegraphed for me.

  Reveal hidden contents

Putting in spoilers even though thread says spoilers to be safe.. I mean, he got feline distemper from vet, then her doctor says to her in the morgue, "you used up two of your nine lives"...and her last scene, cat like reflexes....I assume if she is in the comics she has some cat like powers? I have no idea since I am show only.

Those, are very minor to me compared to the other 12 hours of the show I liked. Liked it so much that I started Luke Cage today. Didn't hear a lot of good things about it, and mostly bad things about Iron Fist and Defenders. Hadn't planned on watching any except JJ and DD but now want to see the others.

I had a lot of problems with this season, but this was NOT one.  This was one of the most believable scene's depicting Trish's relapse.  That and her running to the bathroom to use right in front of Mal and then lying to his face.  

Also, I love Hogarth.  

Like last season and Luke Cage, the season was too long.  I wanted some resolution, but I was sure sad how that situation got resolved.

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2 hours ago, Alarich II said:

Maybe I just don't get the junkie brain - although Malcolm, also a recovering addict, seems to handle the inhalator substance and its addictiveness much better. He basically goes for a run and that's it. Whereas Trish descends into a pit of really stupid decisions which in the end leaves her with superpowers and no apparent downsides.

The other thing about Trish is the "sexual abuse in show business" angle. We have one or two emotional scenes and then the whole issue is completely dropped. To me, it feels like the authors wanted to include that element, because it fits so well with the current debate and the overarching themes of the series, but didn't really know what to do with it in terms of character development and so they just left it in as a plot device.

This is exactly what triggered her relapse.  She thought she could handle the confrontation and she totally couldn't.

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2 hours ago, Lily Valley said:

This is exactly what triggered her relapse.  She thought she could handle the confrontation and she totally couldn't.

I thought that it was the stuff in the inhalator when they sought out the homeless nurse. I mean, okay, the relapse because she had to relive this trauma is a reasonable explication. Makes great sense from a storytelling POV. Only in the case of Trish this connection is not at all what we see on screen. What I saw is: She is alone in a scary abandoned house, takes the inhalator, feels great and then has terrible physical withdrawal symptoms the next morning. Then takes the inhalator stuff again, and voila, relapse. 

I agree that the connection makes sens but what the writers decide to show us (or at least, what I saw) were her physical withdrawal symptoms that immediately go away once she takes another dose from the inhalator.

To me, it seemed like the shows conclusion to the whole story was that Jessica punches a hole into the directors Tesla, the main lead from his new production is warned and leaves and that's basically it. No further mention of it. Maybe it's just that I thought that this confrontation was a big thing in terms character development and then it turned out that it wasn't.

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Well, then they didn't do it on purpose and it was just fortunate timing. Too bad they just very briefly touched the issue and then left it dangling largely unresolved.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Alarich II said:

Maybe I just don't get the junkie brain - although Malcolm, also a recovering addict, seems to handle the inhalator substance and its addictiveness much better. He basically goes for a run and that's it.

Another way to put it would be that he freaks the fuck out because he realises it's going to wreck his hard-won sobriety, and never dares put himself in a position where he might be tempted by it again. He goes as far as cutting himself off from his nascent relationship with Trish. 

That scene is a very good example of Trish's addict behaviour - pushing someone else to join her in addiction, trying to justify her use of it. Her preoccupation with IGH, as noted, is initially seen as drive to bring them to justice but turns out to be addict behaviour too, a preoccupation with her addiction.  

Quote

Whereas Trish descends into a pit of really stupid decisions which in the end leaves her with superpowers and no apparent downsides.

Apart from nearly dying, maybe. And losing her relationship with her adoptive sister. Trish's decision to take matters into her own hands at the end of the final episode has to be seen as one last stab at being the hero, IMO. 

But yeah, there is a legitimate criticism about having this all lead Trish to what she wanted, having powers. I would hope, though, that with these writers, Trish will find out that getting what you want isn't always a good thing. 

Edited by mormont
Redundancy

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41 minutes ago, mormont said:

I would hope, though, that with these writers, Trish will find out that getting what you want isn't always a good thing. 

I agree. IMO, this seasons finale leaves all the characters at a point, where a 3rd season can be very exciting. But for me, this season just didn't get anywhere close to the quality of season 1.

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Posted (edited)

Done (admittedly, I skimmed almost every episode after 4, and feel like I missed nothing -- more proof that this seasons are just too damned long). The last three episodes -- especially episode 11 -- were better than everything that preceded them pretty substantially.

A major issue is, sadly, Trish. The actress was acceptable the first season as Jessica's reasonably level-headed best friend. Her performance was deeply unconvincing this season, however, as they asked her to get out of that wheelhouse. It brought everything around her down a few pegs, including Eka Darville's Malcolm, who I feel was pretty criminally underused. And the state they left him in at the end of the episode leaves me  with little hope that this will improve with S3, if such a thing comes to pass. Frankly, I would have greatly preferred it if they had him be the one pushing for powers as a way to get Jessica to show some respect to him, as I think his performance would have been great. For that matter, he should be crushing on her, not Trish... but whatever.

Carrie-Anne Moss is an entirely different league from pretty much everyone else on the show, acting wise, and her storyline I was pretty fine with.

The central storyline of the season, Jessica and her mother, really didn't gel for a long time, though Janet McTeer did a good job conveying Alisa's maternal desires wrestling with her rage. Ritter, I feel, mostly didn't get to do anything really good until those final episodes, when she finally became really vulnerable.

There's lots of stuff this season that was, all in all, pretty pointless -- most notable Pryce, as well as his trying to get Hogarth to go after Jessica -- and I just don't get why none of these shows take their 13 episodes and break them into shorter story arcs. Unless it's a mandate from Netflix? Could be. But I feel they ought to take a look at Justified or, hell, Sherlock, to see that they can do compelling shows that don't need to be 13 hour movies. The opening to this season, with her sitting with various would-be clients, would have been a fine start to actually weave multiple investigations and multiple storylines together while having the chance to have an overarching thread that culminates in the last couple of hours.

I didn't like JJ S1 as much as some who felt it was the best season of any of the Netflix shows, but I certainly thought it was in the conversation. But JJ S2 strikes me as having revealed a lot of problems. Better than Iron Fist? Sure, low bar that that is. I'd take the first halves of DD2 and LC ahead of the whole of it, and THE PUNISHER and DEFENDERS as well.

Edited by Ran

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Finished it yesterday. It was very problematic but I did enjoy it overall. Far better than The Defenders IMO, but then I thought that was terrible (I didn't bother with Iron Fist).

It does seem a little too long. 10 episodes could have been better.

But my biggest issues were the plot contrivances. The way Alissa is shown and portrayed before the reveal about who she is seems disconnected from the person after the reveal. I can't make sense of her killings and actions (even in the context of her troubled mind). The news broadcast that she catches from prison that drives her crazy made my eyes roll. It was completely unrealistic for the media to have all that information so quickly, a lazy plot contrivance to get Alissa to lose her shit ASAP. They should have just used Dorothy taking the media bait that leads Alissa to Trish, which felt entirely natural to the situation and the characters, to make Alissa lose her shit.

Also, that Trish in her state was able to beat the police to Playland seemed utterly ludicrous! And even with Trish's training obsessions, that seemed like a tough shot to make in her circumstances, with Jess so close.

I liked the story with Oscar and his kid. The arc was good and I liked the hope in it, although that is usually dangerous in these stories. This season needed that hope though.

The Pryce subplot was pretty bad. Would have been much better without it. The only part of that I liked was early on, JJ's brilliant response to "I never take no for an answer"; and Ritter's delivery was great!

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

The news broadcast that she catches from prison that drives her crazy made my eyes roll. It was completely unrealistic for the media to have all that information so quickly, a lazy plot contrivance to get Alissa to lose her shit ASAP.

In other words, it was like most news broadcasts in drama series?

Seriously, maybe it's me but I never see news broadcasts in drama that look like actual news broadcasts. Maybe US news is different. 

Quote

Also, that Trish in her state was able to beat the police to Playland seemed utterly ludicrous! And even with Trish's training obsessions, that seemed like a tough shot to make in her circumstances, with Jess so close.

It's almost as if she had some sort of enhanced abilities. ;)

Quote

The Pryce subplot was pretty bad. Would have been much better without it. The only part of that I liked was early on, JJ's brilliant response to "I never take no for an answer"; and Ritter's delivery was great!

That is undoubtedly one of the best lines in the series. :P

ETA - i do enjoy this story:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/jessica-jones-caused-a-ton-of-people-to-google-octopus-1823762951

Edited by mormont

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mormont said:

In other words, it was like most news broadcasts in drama series?

True. A fair point. It is rare to find realistic news broadcasts in film and TV shows. it still annoys me though. It's a contrivance that breaks the suspension of my disbelief (when used to further character motivation and plot).

1 hour ago, mormont said:

It's almost as if she had some sort of enhanced abilities. ;)

Well sure, but she had still just been at death's door. Struggling out of bed didn't exactly suggest she could beat the cops to the scene. She limped away afterwards. Still ludicrous IMO.

Edited by Dolorous Gabe
clarification

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On 3/14/2018 at 5:33 AM, Ran said:

 

I didn't like JJ S1 as much as some who felt it was the best season of any of the Netflix shows, but I certainly thought it was in the conversation. But JJ S2 strikes me as having revealed a lot of problems. Better than Iron Fist? Sure, low bar that that is. I'd take the first halves of DD2 and LC ahead of the whole of it, and THE PUNISHER and DEFENDERS as well.

I was unable to get through Iron Fist and The Defenders. I tried. Punisher is by far my favorite and then DD but that’s mostly due to Deborah Anne Woll. Luke Cage and JJ were on the same level, to me. 

The “not actually dead mother” arc didn’t gel with me either and it was obvious that it was going to end only one way. I did not, however, expect it to happen directly next to and in front of Jessica in a manner that was probably more traumatizing than her first death.

The addiction theme is strong and I like to see the various stages and behaviors that the characters go through. Some of it is realistic.

I was trying to see if Hogarth was going through the stages of grief and they did represent them fairly. I saw her pleading with the doctor for the treatments still in trial phase as a sort of bargaining. I would be far happier if Hogarth inherited super abilities rather than trish. 

I felt the ending was setting trish up to be the next villain. But I dug around google and I don’t think that’s the case. Certainly the two are at odds. I would almost prefer her to be the next villain since they set her up to be so hated. 

As a side note - Killgrave was amazing. I was so happy to see Tennet even momentarily. 

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So Trish has super agility, I guess.

I still feel like Jessica's strength gets situational varied depending on how strong the story needs her to be in any given situation. Which means when she needs to do a solo strength move she's as strong and necessary. But when someone else strong is there to help her strength falls short of what's needed. I wish they'd be more consistent.

 

Really liked the season over all.

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