Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Martell Spy

Jessica Jones Season 2: AKA This Thread Has Spoilers

Recommended Posts

On 3/14/2018 at 8:33 AM, Ran said:

There's lots of stuff this season that was, all in all, pretty pointless -- most notable Pryce, as well as his trying to get Hogarth to go after Jessica -- and I just don't get why none of these shows take their 13 episodes and break them into shorter story arcs. Unless it's a mandate from Netflix? Could be. But I feel they ought to take a look at Justified or, hell, Sherlock, to see that they can do compelling shows that don't need to be 13 hour movies. The opening to this season, with her sitting with various would-be clients, would have been a fine start to actually weave multiple investigations and multiple storylines together while having the chance to have an overarching thread that culminates in the last couple of hours.

I think they really need to figure out if they want to make long movies or TV shows with these Marvel series.  If they want to continue making long movies, they need to drop the episode count to more in the six to eight hour range like Peaky Blinders so that they don't wear out their welcome.  If they want these shows to be more like a TV series, then they need to start integrating "case of the week" style storytelling like most cable TV shows. 

You can still have season-long story arcs, but you need to make the episode to episode trek a lot more engaging if you want people to not get burnt out by the end of thirteen hours.

As you said, Justified always did a great job of marrying long-term storytelling with case of the week simplicity.  No reason these Marvel shows can't do the same.  Basically every one of these shows outside of Jessica Jones has an absurd amount of comic lore and characters to draw from and they use practically none of it, and even Jessica Jones surely has access to a lot of the characters and story arcs that have taken place in the comics of other members of the Netflix Defenders. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, briantw said:

 

As you said, Justified always did a great job of marrying long-term storytelling with case of the week simplicity.  No reason these Marvel shows can't do the same.  Basically every one of these shows outside of Jessica Jones has an absurd amount of comic lore and characters to draw from and they use practically none of it, and even Jessica Jones surely has access to a lot of the characters and story arcs that have taken place in the comics of other members of the Netflix Defenders. 

I'm refreshing my memory on the original Brian Bendis comics, and they definitely had storylines they haven't even come close to touching -- a couple of which would be, I think, pretty readily adaptable. It's funny, actually, that they basically used only the barest-bones of Bendis's original comic -- the Purple Man, a relationship with Luke Cage, a car accident leading to her powers (very different circumstances, though) -- and while it worked fine the first season, I'm much less convinced by this season. I'll put it down to the creative team, and whatever reason they're stuck making 13 hour movies when pretty much each and every one of their shows has had serious problems with having to stretch out a story that far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was like watching a cross between a superhero show, and a family drama.

Don't get me wrong, I liked it, inasmuch as i enjoy most comic-book oriented television and marvel shows in particular... but it was..... fucking weird. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

This was like watching a cross between a superhero show, and a family drama.

Don't get me wrong, I liked it, inasmuch as i enjoy most comic-book oriented television and marvel shows in particular... but it was..... fucking weird. 

How . . . odd.  It didn't feel in the least weird to me.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Ran said:

I'm refreshing my memory on the original Brian Bendis comics, and they definitely had storylines they haven't even come close to touching -- a couple of which would be, I think, pretty readily adaptable. It's funny, actually, that they basically used only the barest-bones of Bendis's original comic -- the Purple Man, a relationship with Luke Cage, a car accident leading to her powers (very different circumstances, though) -- and while it worked fine the first season, I'm much less convinced by this season. I'll put it down to the creative team, and whatever reason they're stuck making 13 hour movies when pretty much each and every one of their shows has had serious problems with having to stretch out a story that far.

They had a few other story lines besides the Purple Man, but there just really wasn't a lot of meat there.  Unlike the other members of the Defenders and Punisher, Jones doesn't have decades worth of material to fall back on.  Still, you'd think they could pretty easily lift ideas and characters from other comics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, briantw said:

They had a few other story lines besides the Purple Man, but there just really wasn't a lot of meat there.  Unlike the other members of the Defenders and Punisher, Jones doesn't have decades worth of material to fall back on.  Still, you'd think they could pretty easily lift ideas and characters from other comics.

I think if they had moved into The Pulse, they could have done quite a bit more. Anyways, they just seem to stick themselves into a rut trying to spin out a 13-episode storyline. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You wouldn't think it would be so hard to come up with material for a superhero who is a PI. Off the top of my head she could privately investigate things. 

Veronica Mars meets Wonder Woman seems an easy formula.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, red snow said:

 

Veronica Mars meets Wonder Woman seems an easy formula.

 

You're absolutely right. I have to assume this is a Netflix or Marvel mandate to the show runners of the Marvel shows, but if so, it's clearly the wrong move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished S2E8 and I'm definitely more mixed on this season thus far than I was on S1. For my money, JJ S1 was one of if not the best overall seasons of TV Marvel has put out. Tennant's Purple Man & introducing Luke Cage had a lot to do with that, but I felt the overall arc and flow of S1 was more on point. To be reductive in my critique of the writing, S1 had a few "filler episodes" but S2 feels like it's got more filler "per episode." 

On the plus side for S2: I like the lead actress's performance a lot more. Ritter's Jones was hit or miss for me in S1, but in S2 she's really reaching a more honest, layered performance for me. And even though I don't really find the growing supporting cast of characters as interesting, the acting is so solid it's saving some writing and pacing issues I'm having with the episodes thus far. Even Hispanic David Mack, which is written thus far just about as cliched as you can get, is coming across as tolerable thanks to the performance. Trish and Malcolm (associate status unlocked!) are having a really interesting season thus far. Hopefully that doesn't go south in the last five episodes.

Some spoilery comments on S2E1-8:

* Kudos to the writers for making IGH a much more layered "villain" thus far & not just another "evil corporation of mad scientists." Malus & Hansen were trying to do legitimate good. Koslov took the science and applied it to the military, but even he didn't seem to be malicious in his intents with the tech. 

*RIP Whizzer. Gone too soon!

*Kudos for S2 continuing the theme of addiction and relapse from S1 (technically more obsession in S1, but that's mostly semantics) with Trish & Malcolm. I'm liking how their stories are intersecting as of S2E8. I always thought Trish had a selfish side to her, but it never made me actually dislike her until that moment she pushed the inhaler drug on Malcolm. And of course he caved because he's in love/lust with her, in pain, and an addict. It was a very well done scene.

*I'm not hating the Hogarth/IGH nurse plotline, but it's just not the characters I sat down wanting to see so much time spent with. I wish I had Claire or Luke or even moar Foggy.

*So, maybe I'm being overly nit-picky here. But the plot twist of the female protagonist's villain turning out to be her mother who was thought dead but ended being a murderous assassin that the protagonist is conflicted in reconciling with is STRAIGHT UP lifted from the show ALIAS. I mean, considering the original comic book the show is based off of was named ALIAS, I gotta call shenanigans.

*I love the mention of Cap & The Raft, but why no DEFENDERS talk thus far?  I'm still not through with S2, so maybe it does get mentioned later, or maybe it's revealed JJS2 takes place prior to DEFENDERS. I'm not calling this a criticism yet unless the whole fighting an army of ninjas thing isn't addressed at all. No way someone like Jessica would go through the DEFENDERS and not at the very least bring it up as a sarcastic comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoyed it.  Best thing they've done aside from DD1 and JJ1.  It still suffered from the Netflix slog but the characters and situations were compelling enough that it came through despite that.  The family drama elements didn't particularly bother me but I could certainly have done with a few more cool scenes.

I suspect the serialisation format is just considered how you do quality television these days.  I'm less clear on why they are keeping to 13 episodes, what's the advantage to a subscription service if you keep using it for longer?  Just so they can say they've provided such and such hours of material?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

S2E09

This episode was just outstanding. None of my previous critiques on the writing or pace apply here. Everything on point. Also, I see where this is going for Hogarth. It won't be pretty. 

S2E10

Twelve minutes in: Wow. That's impressive. Malcolm may be my new new hero.

Twenty minutes later: Nvrmnd.

Yup. Hogarth was messy. Kudos to the writers for actually making this an emotional moment when I didn't really care about this character's personal life at the onset of the season.

Patsy done gon' an dun it, y'all! I'm not sure I like where this is going for our lil' Hellcat. :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hogarth's story is strange because it's simultaneously the best part of the season but also has absolutely nothing to do with anything else that happens on the show.  The only reason it works is because it's more interesting than most of the other shit happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally completed all of JJS2. Ultimately it ended just like I predicted. They had me going there for a minute in episodes 7-10 that things might go off in a unique direction, but nope--E11-13 put the kibosh on any hopes of something less than predictable happening regarding Jess & co. However, despite the predictable outcomes, I did enjoy watching the journey for Jessica and Malcolm especially. I really didn't care for Malcolm in S1, but I really dug his arc in S2. Trish's arc was interesting but I didn't like the melodrama of it all so much. Jerri's story was, again, not something I really wanted/expected to see, but Carrie Ann Moss is just a joy to watch. So kudos to her for getting a much meatier role in S2.

I'm still irked there was no link or connection to Defenders mentioned. Jerri threw around the name Rand several times like a pair of giant brass balls, but no mention of Danny or the Hand. Eh. Minor nit-pick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

 

I'm still irked there was no link or connection to Defenders mentioned. Jerri threw around the name Rand several times like a pair of giant brass balls, but no mention of Danny or the Hand. Eh. Minor nit-pick.

Well, for viewers like myself, who don't in the least follow the Marvel universe, mythology etc., it was good that they didn't.  I would have bogged down pacing while not contributing anything for us.  This was this story and it existed marvelously -- ah-hem -- in it's own narrative.  As with Luke Cage, when I watched JJ's first season I didn't even know they were comix, and I still didn't know at the end of it.  Luke Cage, about the middle of the season, changing course from the splendid first episodes, went 100% into comix formula, even talking about other supers etc. and gave itself away.  I didn't care for the narrative at that point at all.  It took me months to finish the rest of the episodes, when I was just waiting to do something else and didn't have enough time to do anything else meaningful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It gets more interesting all the time as the reactions to Jessica Jones's second season continue to resonate differently between male and female watchers.  I posted one above in this thread that discussed the centering of mother-daughter relationships in season 2.  Here is another interesting piece, that this time deals with women's anger in terms of JJ's second season. As all women learn very early, anger is the most taboo feeling for a woman to express and, even, to feel.

https://slate.com/culture/2018/03/jessica-jones-season-2-female-rage.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I just finished it and loved every second. I was surprised to come here and find such negative reactions, but hey, I can at least see where some of the criticism comes from, even if I disagree. 

Starting with the supporting cast - Hogarth is far and away the most interesting side character Marvel Netflix has for me. Ruthless and angry, cold and calculating, smart and polished. She is utterly fantastic, and the actress' performance is brilliant.

Malcolm was also great, I loved the follow up of the addiction issues he faced and the fact they weren't just dropped. His relationship with both Trish and Jess were brilliant.

Oscar and Vido :love: I love these two. Wasn't sure about them at the start when Oscar looked to be prejudiced asshat number 3 but worked out well in the end.

Trish was great this season for me. I loved that they didn't shy away from making her hard to like and I really found myself understanding (though not condoning) her obsession and addiction to gaining these powers (I basically agree with Mormont, he covers this better in earlier posts).

I enjoyed the plot with Jessica and her mother. I thoughtbit a smart choice which tied together the themes and plots of the season regarding family,addiction, denial, responsibility etc. There was only ever one way it would end (i.e. her mother getting killed) but I never expected it to be so brutal, or to come from that angle in particular.

The best episode by far was the one with Killgrave though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually didn't buy the prejudiced asshat angle for Oscar because I thought he seemed wary initially but only turned into an asshole when she brought the cops to his door and I found him being pissed off after that quite understandable if an overreaction. I don't think that is a criticism of the show, quite the opposite in fact - it made perfect sense for her to read it that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just finished episode 5 and I've been watching while multitasking but.. what is the deal with:

Spoiler S2E05

Spoiler

Trish and her inhaler giving her demon eyes. Did I miss something prior to that scene that was leading up to it?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, karaddin said:

I actually didn't buy the prejudiced asshat angle for Oscar because I thought he seemed wary initially but only turned into an asshole when she brought the cops to his door and I found him being pissed off after that quite understandable if an overreaction. I don't think that is a criticism of the show, quite the opposite in fact - it made perfect sense for her to read it that way.

Yeah, I wonder if it’s because I have never had to live in fear of deportation or arrest or whatever that I didn’t recognise why he was so spooked. I didn’t have an issue with them choosing that route if they as, but I liked what they actually did better I think. I just saw the camera focus on his look after she used her powers...so I think there was at least an attempt to deliberately lead viewers to the conclusion that’s he was prejudiced against powered persons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×