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E.S. Dinah

Bran will not be able to warg a dragon!

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I watched this interview after following the link elsewhere in the forum and George said something that got my attention at approximately 30 minutes into the interview.  Based on what he said, I don't think Bran Stark will get to skin change a dragon.  I would like dragons to have immunity from being skin changed.  

 

Spoiler

I don't think the Dragonbinder will work.  

 

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I didn't watch the entire interview sorry, but I did check out the part you spoke of around 30 minutes in. 

I don't think what he says really rules out Bran warging a dragon, but regardless I would only like to see that scenario play out if things are pretty bad and it's the only way to get some control during the probably Battle for the Dawn 2.0. 

IMO, Bran has always been set up to be an important character (he's the first proper POV chapter IIRC), but it seems like his main purpose from what we've seen is to act as a source of information/knowledge - the whole weirnet thing. Then again, why give him the ability of warging if that's not the end game? Warging a wolf or Hodor has been useful sure, but not really gamechanging, so warging definitely has a purpose going forward.

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Me too. Also the spoilered part. (At least we can hope).

Thanks for the link to the interview! However, I failed to detect anything in the interview that addressed skinchanging with a dragon. A word on training horses was all. I took some note of George RR's mention that the occasional error on his part is frequently blown all out of proportion by us obsessive fans.

And speaking of obsession, I don't want to believe that Bran is some kind of deus ex weirwood who will go on to control all of time and space and has made happen everything that has gone on in Westeros throughout history, has been every "Brandon Stark" that the stories tell of, been responsible for all the dreams and prophesies of all of the characters, will "warg" all the dragons and defeat the "Night's King", who is of course Bran Gone Bad. Not meaning to change the subject...

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Dany and Bran are the parallel characters in the story.  Maybe Bran will warg the Others and their wights.  

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2 hours ago, Mat92 said:

Then again, why give him the ability of warging if that's not the end game? Warging a wolf or Hodor has been useful sure, but not really gamechanging,

Yes, it is! Bran will warg into Hodor, and carry his own body out of that cave. They will escape from the Children. Because Children are evil. Next time when Bran will wake up, when the Three-eyed crow will wake him up, he will see that the weirwood roots grew thru his body. The weirwood will grow from inside of him, like an alien parasite, out of that paste. Because that paste is full of weirwood seeds, so they will grow in him. That's what they meant, when they said that this paste will wed Bran to a tree. He will literally become connected to weirwood network. And those roots will bind Bran's body to the cave's floor. That's what Jojen saw in his vision:

ACOK, Bran IV: " “I dreamed of a winged wolf bound to earth with grey stone chains,” he said. “It was a green dream, so I knew it was true. A crow was trying to peck through the chains, but the stone was too hard and his beak could only chip at them.” "

Though even after they will manage to escape, the tree will still be growing thru Bran's body. So eventually he will completely turn into a tree, and he will be planted in a garden of Winterfell.

And there's no need for Bran to warg into a dragon. Because all three dragons will have riders: Drogon - Dany, Rhaegel - Rhaego, Viseryon - Jon.

And it is highly unlikely, that it is possible to warg into a dragon. Because dragons are fire made flesh. And what happens with human consciousness/soul, when it is warged into something with fire, we know from what happened to Valamyr, when Melisandre burned the eagle, in which he was warged. Warging is power from Old Gods, thus it doesn't work on dragons, because they are creations of R'hllor.

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1 hour ago, Stormking902 said:

Bran is the NK/Bran the builder all in one.........

Or you might think of him as a crippled boy with new-found and largely untested abilities to view the past and enter the minds of animals and simple minded very familiar humans. 

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17 hours ago, E.S. Dinah said:

Based on what he said, I don't think Bran Stark will get to skin change a dragon. 

Based on what Martin said I would agree. Taming a dragon is different than trying to tame a cat, a horse, a dog ---- none of them can turn around and fry you to a crisp.

Our fellow posters may disagree.

In this interview Martin was hyping the WOIAF in 2014.

Can Drogon beat Smog --- No --- Drogon is barely large enough to get Dany in the sky.

Let me take a few notes. The interview was in 2014 for WOIAF.    DWD was released in 2011. Knight of the Seven Kingdoms was released in 2015. Fire & Blood volume one is due for release this year or next.

There is a caveat concerning Yandel & Gyldayn. Does that mean that Fire & Blood is Gyldayn’s tale?

The ability to tame a dragon is not a simple process. More will be revealed in the GRRMallion.  Is that Fire & Blood?

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18 hours ago, E.S. Dinah said:

I watched this interview after following the link elsewhere in the forum and George said something that got my attention at approximately 30 minutes into the interview.  Based on what he said, I don't think Bran Stark will get to skin change a dragon.  I would like dragons to have immunity from being skin changed.  

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't think the Dragonbinder will work.  

 

I don't see what you're referring to.  Could you quote what exactly GRRM said that is concerning you, so that I can analyze it?  That one is a tricksy bird, even in so-called 'casual conversation', so I need the exact words he chose to use!

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18 hours ago, E.S. Dinah said:

I watched this interview after following the link elsewhere in the forum and George said something that got my attention at approximately 30 minutes into the interview.  Based on what he said, I don't think Bran Stark will get to skin change a dragon.  I would like dragons to have immunity from being skin changed.  

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't think the Dragonbinder will work.  

 

I agree with the other posters here. I am not hearing anything specific that would remotely confirm anything. GRRM used the horse training analogy, and if you have any experience with horses, it is a game of mind (pretty much :lol:). In that case, yeah, Bran is the perfect mind player.

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3 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

GRRM used the horse training analogy, and if you have any experience with horses, it is a game of mind (pretty much :lol:). In that case, yeah, Bran is the perfect mind player.

Moreover, Hodor the stableboy is compared to a horse in multiple ways, skinchanging being the ultimate 'riding', really.  As to greenseeing -- which is basically skinchanging trees -- the seer hanging himself on Yggdrasil the world tree in Norse mythology (in order to go galloping about the worlds) is tantamount to mounting the horse Sleipneir.  A dragon is basically a fiery steed, hence 'Drogo' the horselord becomes 'Drogon'. 

I think Bran will skinchange a wighted dragon.  It's not possible for a person lacking fire immunity to skinchange the fiery kind, as was demonstrated symbolically by the painful expulsion of the skinchanger from the burning eagle.  What's more, and often less recognized, it's not possible for a Targaryen to ride an ice dragon -- think on that!

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11 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Moreover, Hodor the stableboy is compared to a horse in multiple ways, skinchanging being the ultimate 'riding', really.  As to greenseeing -- which is basically skinchanging trees -- the seer hanging himself on Yggdrasil the world tree in Norse mythology (in order to go galloping about the worlds) is tantamount to mounting the horse Sleipneir.  A dragon is basically a fiery steed, hence 'Drogo' the horselord becomes 'Drogon'. 

I think Bran will skinchange a wighted dragon.  It's not possible for a person lacking fire immunity to skinchange the fiery kind, as was demonstrated symbolically by the painful expulsion of the skinchanger from the burning eagle.  What's more, and often less recognized, it's not possible for a Targaryen to ride an ice dragon -- think on that!

That is pretty clever. I shall think on that!

Keepin' that coin flipping.

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51 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I think Bran will skinchange a wighted dragon. 

Golly, one of de na na's children who is about the size of a horse gets wighted? Do tell.

52 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

t's not possible for a person lacking fire immunity to skinchange the fiery kind, as was demonstrated symbolically by the painful expulsion of the skinchanger from the burning eagle. 

You lost me on dat one. You be talking about the wildling skinchanger?

53 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

What's more, and often less recognized, it's not possible for a Targaryen to ride an ice dragon -- think on that!

I frekking ice dragon ---- not possible----where you find this.

:wub:

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1 minute ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Golly, one of de na na's children who is about the size of a horse gets wighted? Do tell.

Hi Puppy!  You know I work symbolically -- that's jus' the way I roll -- so, it's a natural progression in the skinchanging of 'ice giants', which Bran has been practising for some time: from climbing Winterfell (described as a 'monstrous' stone tree) to skinchanging a direwolf (a giant wolf) to skinchanging Hodor (who has giant blood and then becomes an ice giant of sorts when he freezes over, one eye shut like Odin) to skinchanging the weirwood (which are not only 'white' but 'wight' trees!).  From there, he might skinchange an ice dragon and perhaps even a comet/meteor, the ultimate icy giant (in my wildest tinfoiliest dreams)!

Spoiler

Besides, it's already happened in the show...LOL.  Someone will have to step in to take that dragon away from the Night's King, don't you agree?! (clue: I don't think Dany is the one to do it)

 

 

1 minute ago, Clegane'sPup said:

You lost me on dat one. You be talking about the wildling skinchanger?

Yes, Varamyr skinchanging the eagle which used to belong to Orell.  When the eagle goes up in flames, the skinchanger cannot remain within the host body, and almost goes mad.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Jon X

"Banners," he heard Varamyr murmur, "I see golden banners, oh . . ." A mammoth lumbered by, trumpeting, a half-dozen bowmen in the wooden tower on its back. "The king . . . no . . ."

Then the skinchanger threw back his head and screamed.

The sound was shocking, ear-piercing, thick with agony. Varamyr fell, writhing, and the 'cat was screaming too . . . and high, high in the eastern sky, against the wall of cloud, Jon saw the eagle burning. For a heartbeat it flamed brighter than a star, wreathed in red and gold and orange, its wings beating wildly at the air as if it could fly from the pain. Higher it flew, and higher, and higher still.

The scream brought Val out of the tent, white-faced. "What is it, what's happened?" Varamyr's wolves were fighting each other, and the shadowcat had raced off into the trees, but the man was still twisting on the ground. "What's wrong with him?" Val demanded, horrified. 

Analogously, it shouldn't be possible for someone who is not fire-immune (like Bran and unlike Dany) to skinchange 'fire-made-flesh'.

1 minute ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I frekking ice dragon ---- not possible----where you find this.

:wub:

We have the wighted trees, the wighted horses, the wighted people, and the wighted bear...why not a wighted dragon?

Spoiler

Besides, it's already happened in the show...and D&D did not write that scene themselves!!

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I don't see what you're referring to.  Could you quote what exactly GRRM said that is concerning you, so that I can analyze it? 

It would be helpful if the original poster clarified their thought.

All in all I liked hearing what Martin has to say in his words about what he wrote.

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Hi Puppy!  You know I work symbolically -- that's jus' the way I roll -- so

Yep.:grouphug:

Edited by Clegane'sPup

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I've been saying for over a year that Bran is unlikely to skinchange (warg is for wolves, people) a dragon.

If anyone can do it, it will be Bloodraven. He not only has the power, he has way more experience, and that Targaryen blood couldn't hurt. It's a fitting second life for a half-blood prince of Westeros.

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9 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I've been saying for over a year that Bran is unlikely to skinchange (warg is for wolves, people) a dragon.

If anyone can do it, it will be Bloodraven. He not only has the power, he has way more experience, and that Targaryen blood couldn't hurt. It's a fitting second life for a half-blood prince of Westeros.

This... brings tears of joy to my eyes. I hadn't read this proposal of yours before. Let's hope Bloodraven makes it that long and we see what he can do. I don't know if he will, and it may be up to Bran at that point, but this is definitely something I am going to keep my eye out for.

Spoiler

I have no idea if this is considered TWOW spoilery even though it is a released interview, so pardon the secret eye for this question.

George seems to imply that Daenerys will spend a good deal of her time still in Essos (from article below). So that could mean either we don't get the battle with the Others until very late in the TWOW book, or, the battle with the Others takes place in ADOS, or, the battle takes place in TWOW and Dany isn't there with her dragons because she comes to Westeros in ADOS (which seems really weird). I may be overlooking the obvious, but it is late here and I have had a mentally taxing day (and evening <_<).

What is your opinion? And more importantly, do you think BR will make it that long? :D

http://ew.com/article/2014/06/26/george-r-r-martin-winds-winter-tease/

As he’s noted before, Martin says the Dothraki are coming back into the story (“in a big way”), and he says “a lot of stuff is happening at The Wall.”

I also asked Martin about one extremely eagerly anticipated character pairing: Tyrion and Daenerys. What will their interaction be like?

“Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart,” he says. “They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.”

 

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Trying to skinchange a dragon will result in what happened to Varamyr when Mel microwaved him. To survive inside the dragon will be to survive inside fire, like that character that walked into a funeral pyre. She can't skinchange though, and never will be able to, it will be her second life, she has to first die and be reborn a dragon.

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51 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

This... brings tears of joy to my eyes. I hadn't read this proposal of yours before. Let's hope Bloodraven makes it that long and we see what he can do. I don't know if he will, and it may be up to Bran at that point, but this is definitely something I am going to keep my eye out for.

  Reveal hidden contents

I have no idea if this is considered TWOW spoilery even though it is a released interview, so pardon the secret eye for this question.

George seems to imply that Daenerys will spend a good deal of her time still in Essos (from article below). So that could mean either we don't get the battle with the Others until very late in the TWOW book, or, the battle with the Others takes place in ADOS, or, the battle takes place in TWOW and Dany isn't there with her dragons because she comes to Westeros in ADOS (which seems really weird). I may be overlooking the obvious, but it is late here and I have had a mentally taxing day (and evening <_<).

What is your opinion? And more importantly, do you think BR will make it that long? :D

http://ew.com/article/2014/06/26/george-r-r-martin-winds-winter-tease/

As he’s noted before, Martin says the Dothraki are coming back into the story (“in a big way”), and he says “a lot of stuff is happening at The Wall.”

I also asked Martin about one extremely eagerly anticipated character pairing: Tyrion and Daenerys. What will their interaction be like?

“Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart,” he says. “They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.”

 

I'm glad you liked it. It's something I came up with as part of my endgame to end all endgames, but I think it stands fairly well on its own. Of course we'd only get to learn about it in a prologue or epilogue unless GRRM breaks his pattern and gives us Bloodraven's POV in a chapter... OR, and I just thought of this this very minute, Bran could TRY to skinchange a dragon and find that it's already occupied.

I've read that interview before. Dany certainly has a lot of ground to cover in Essos before she can get back to Westeros. But I'm thinking we're going to have more than one battle with the Others. There will be a series of small skirmishes and one or two big ones, possibly going on at the same time in different locations so neither group of humans knows if the other group survived.

Don't know how long BR will last, but I hope he holds out until Dany is nearby so he can at least attempt to get a second life in a dragon. As great as his talents are, and as much experience as he has, I don't think even the great Brynden could pull off a long-distance dragon skinchange.

44 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Trying to skinchange a dragon will result in what happened to Varamyr when Mel microwaved him. To survive inside the dragon will be to survive inside fire, like that character that walked into a funeral pyre. She can't skinchange though, and never will be able to, it will be her second life, she has to first die and be reborn a dragon.

You've forgotten something. The bird itself was not fire. It was hit from the outside, and Varamyr went through what he did not because of fire in general but because of what the bird went through. The bird was flammable, and it did not appreciate getting hit like that.

Fire cannot kill a dragon. Thus no one is going to be shooting a fireball at a dragon in an attempt to take it down. It has no feathers that can catch and burn.

Skinchanging is moving the consciousness, not the physical body. The dragons may be physically "fire made flesh" (which is not totally literal) but their consciousness is not fire. And if it were, you're forgetting that we have people who literally call themselves the blood of the dragon and have extremely high heat tolerance. Again, if anybody can do it, it will be Bloodraven.

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5 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

You've forgotten something.

I've not forgotten anything. It will be the case that dragons can not be skinchanged because the skinchanger can not survive the fire and they are forced out else they are consumed and die. It is the point of that scene, of fire consumes and ice preserves. And that's what the Valyrian dragon riding family's did that no-one else ever has, they worked out how to survive the fire.

Probably they first did it by swapping an unborn-in-womb child's soul with a dragon's soul, the child dies or becomes the dragon second lifed and the mother's blood is dragon contaminated. No-one else discovered how to do it because no-one else was willing to sacrifice their children with the same enthusiasm as the Valyrians.

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