UK Politics: The Beast From The East

[mankytoes]

43 minutes ago, mormont said:

Well... Irish Republicans are still, of course, anti-monarchy. They are specifically in favour of a united Ireland that is a Republic. The Queen is still Queen of a bit of Ireland. So philosophically, Irish Republicans are in agreement with small-r UK republicans.

I mean, sort of. But if we became a republic, they wouldn't change their position, so it isn't really against the monarchy specifically.

35 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I'm moving to Ireland and joining the IRA!

Only half decent gang to learn to make nail bombs from with the Taliban out of sorts.

I met an Irish guy who said he was in America, and someone offered to buy him a shot called an Irish Car Bomb. He asked if they had one called a 9/11, and they got all offended!

If you want to hang with terrorists, the Kurds are the way to go. They're much active and sort of the good guys?

[polishgenius]

 

44 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I'm moving to Ireland and joining the IRA!

Only half decent gang to learn to make nail bombs from with the Taliban out of sorts.

 

 

 

[Hereward]

nvm

[The Marquis de Leech]

8 hours ago, Werthead said:

Yes, they want to create a Republic, with an elected head of state like the United States. I think this latter part may have come in for some rethinking in the last year or so.

Small r-republican here (I have to clarify the small r bit, for reasons mentioned). I'd suggest that a United States-style republic is the minority view - a figurehead Head of State is the more commonly proposed system, either directly elected (Ireland) or indirectly elected (Germany).

[Liffguard]

11 hours ago, mankytoes said:

I met an Irish guy who said he was in America, and someone offered to buy him a shot called an Irish Car Bomb. He asked if they had one called a 9/11, and they got all offended!

Two manhattans with a fireball chaser.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

On 24.3.2018 at 10:20 AM, mankytoes said:

As someone who partly voted Labour last time because I trusted Corbyn over Brexit, I’m very happy with this sacking. 

Most votes that made Labour perform above expectations came from young voters (a group that didn't show up for the referendum and is generally speaking rather pro European), so it's a fair assumptions that those votes were votes against Brexit. But I guess, your vote was obviously more important for Corbyn and Labour, than what a major of labour voters want (the backbone for the leave vote was Tory voters).

On 24.3.2018 at 5:46 PM, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

You are confusing being in the shadow cabinet (where one has to toe the line) with being a backbencher (where one has much more freedom). Corbyn sacked Smith from the shadow cabinet - and if Corbyn had ever been in the shadow cabinet (inconceivable before 2015), he would have been in the same situation. But he wasn't.

Smith can say whatever he likes (within reason) from the backbenches.

Didn't Abbot say something similar to what Smith said, so why wasn't she dismissed from the shadow cabinet?

 

[Hereward]

15 minutes ago, Notone said:

Most votes that made Labour perform above expectations came from young voters (a group that didn't show up for the referendum and is generally speaking rather pro European), so it's a fair assumptions that those votes were votes against Brexit. 

 

Actually, detailed research has shown that the “Youthquake” is a myth. Young voting rates stayed much the same, and may even have fallen. 

[mankytoes]

1 hour ago, Notone said:

Most votes that made Labour perform above expectations came from young voters (a group that didn't show up for the referendum and is generally speaking rather pro European), so it's a fair assumptions that those votes were votes against Brexit. But I guess, your vote was obviously more important for Corbyn and Labour, than what a major of labour voters want (the backbone for the leave vote was Tory voters).

Maybe I was unclear, I'm happy because Corbyn is sticking to his word, surely we aren't criticising politicians for being honest and consistant now?

If he went against what he said previously, now that would dishonest pandering. People don't seem to have a problem with that when they're being pandered to, though.

1 hour ago, Hereward said:

Actually, detailed research has shown that the “Youthquake” is a myth. Young voting rates stayed much the same, and may even have fallen. 

It's a useful myth/lie I guess.

[mormont]

18 hours ago, mankytoes said:

Maybe I was unclear, I'm happy because Corbyn is sticking to his word, surely we aren't criticising politicians for being honest and consistant now?

So you're pleased that Corbyn, who notoriously was formerly anti-EU, but campaigned to Remain, despite people widely believing that he was not sincere in this view, and who even now is less than forthcoming about his personal views on the topic of Brexit: is being honest and consistent?

He's anything but.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

20 hours ago, Hereward said:

Actually, detailed research has shown that the “Youthquake” is a myth. Young voting rates stayed much the same, and may even have fallen. 

Thanks, I wasn'T aware this had been debunked.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

18 hours ago, mankytoes said:

Maybe I was unclear, I'm happy because Corbyn is sticking to his word, surely we aren't criticising politicians for being honest and consistant now?

COnsistent? in which universe is Corbyn's bumbling consistent? His (and by extension) Labour's position isn'T even logically coherent. Their sheer ridiculouness is just outshined by the bigger clown show that is the Tories.

[mankytoes]

5 minutes ago, mormont said:

So you're pleased that Corbyn, who notoriously was formerly anti-EU, but campaigned to Remain, despite people widely believing that he was not sincere in this view, and who even now is less than forthcoming about his personal views on the topic of Brexit: is being honest and consistent?

He's anything but.

Of course it would have been great to have him be openly pro Brexit. I was pretty annoyed at the time, because I felt that we were going to lose because the campaign was too associated with the toxic right. But hey, we won, I'm no Corbynista (I'm aware I've been supporting him a lot on this thread), and I can let it go. He has a very hostile party to manage, he has a lot of pressure on him to at least give lip service to this second referendum talk, but he's stood tall.

He said he'd respect the result, and so did I. In fact, though the noisy minority might make it seem otherwise, most Remainers are respecting the result.

If you want to support a party led by a Remainer, you've always got the Tories.

[A wilding]

51 minutes ago, mankytoes said:

In fact, though the noisy minority might make it seem otherwise, most Remainers are respecting the result.

Out of interest, where do you get that from?

The vast majority of the (South East England, middle class, generally leftwards leaning) people that I know, while certainly not "noisy", are in various degrees both furious about the result and deeply worried about the future. Almost all would be very happy to see it overturned, and are hoping, though with little confidence, that we somehow end up with the softest possible Brexit.

 

[Isis]

14 minutes ago, A wilding said:

Out of interest, where do you get that from?

The vast majority of the (South East England, middle class, generally leftwards leaning) people that I know, while certainly not "noisy", are in various degrees both furious about the result and deeply worried about the future. Almost all would be very happy to see it overturned, and are hoping, though with little confidence, that we somehow end up with the softest possible Brexit.

 

Yep. Everyone I know and like is fucking livid about it and is a long way from respecting or accepting the result.

[Hereward]

I too live in the south, and am reasonably middle class, and I know not a single person, friends or family, who voted to Remain. 

Just saying!

[A Horse Named Stranger]

6 minutes ago, Hereward said:

I too live in the south, and am reasonably middle class, and I know not a single person, friends or family, who voted to Remain. 

Just saying!

Correct me if I am wrong, but I presume you and your friends/family are not exactly traditional Labour voters.

[Hereward]

My family are, or were. They are mostly electricians, mechanics, carpenters, etc. My friends, not so much! But even Tories voted 40% or so for Remain, me being one of them.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

I would phrase it a bit differently.

Leave won by 52% (?). So if by your account 60% of the Tories* voted leave (logical consequence of 40% remain). That would mean the majority of center left or left voters had to vote remain. 

*I placed Tories as center right, as it is the big conservative party of the UK. And it seems unplausible that far right parties like kippers and BNP broke for remain.

[mormont]

12 hours ago, mankytoes said:

Of course it would have been great to have him be openly pro Brexit.

But your position is not that it would have been great if he had been honest and consistent. It was that he was honest and consistent. He was not.

Despite his reputation, Corbyn is often not honest or consistent in his positions.

[mankytoes]

12 hours ago, A wilding said:

Out of interest, where do you get that from?

The vast majority of the (South East England, middle class, generally leftwards leaning) people that I know, while certainly not "noisy", are in various degrees both furious about the result and deeply worried about the future. Almost all would be very happy to see it overturned, and are hoping, though with little confidence, that we somehow end up with the softest possible Brexit.

 

Hey, I'm from the South East and from a middle class area too!

There's a difference between being furious/worried, and actually wanting politicians to try and go against the popular vote. My sister is as pro Remain as you can get (she cried when the result came out) but she has said she grudgingly knows the result has to be respected- as you say, she wants the softest possible Brexit. That's the logical stance. If we voted to remain, I'd have supported a "soft remain", trying to distance ourselves from the Eurozone, while staying a member.

56 minutes ago, mormont said:

But your position is not that it would have been great if he had been honest and consistent. It was that he was honest and consistent. He was not.

Despite his reputation, Corbyn is often not honest or consistent in his positions.

I was talking about his position of respecting the result of the referendum.