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Casablanca Birdie

US Politics: Stormy Weather Ahead

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If they could only find a way to harness all the hot air  Washington politicians generate  , it would give this country a  new source of clean renewable energy. :P

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I suspect that the Russians poisoned Skripal and his daughter to send a message to anyone considering cooperating with Mueller. We can get you too.

Apparently that's the message being broadcast by Russian television. No one is making denials, they're pretty proud of what was done.

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14 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I laugh at the 'Melania' character on Colbert's show, but, nah, she's suffering enough.

Can't say I've ever seen it. 

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4 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

So you can do nothing, in which case they take if further because there's nothing to stop them and you're screwed. Or you can respond in kind, maybe the other side will do the sane thing and not escalate or maybe they will, but at least in this case you have a chance.

You can't worry about causing escalation when this is the one option that might stop escalation and you weren't the one who escalated in the first place.

I understand the logic you're using, but I feel like the premise is wrong. I see no reason to believe a retaliation will cause Republicans to rethink their tactics. I think it will make them become even more heavy handed. What I want is a return to regular order, but as @Shryke said in the last thread, we're not going to get that until Republicans admit that they're at fault here, and I don't see that happening anytime soon either. So I guess our politics will just have to sink further into the gutter. I thought things would go back to normal when we hit some type of rock bottom, but Trump is showing that's not the case. 

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Posted (edited)

From previous political thread, re the Polish cavalry up against tanks back in the nazi invasion of their country:

The US refused -- FDR refused -- to allow the US to trade or sell arms with any of the countries that would be our allies, from the Republicans in Spain, to the Brits.  The Brits had ordered a fleet of military planes before war began, but they couldn't be delivered to Britain in any way shape or form -- even though, Depression or not, they'd been paid for!  Because the US official stance in all this throughout the 1930's and until we officially entered the war is that the US was neutral.  However, and this is a HUGE, an ENORMOUS HOWEVER, nothing was done to prevent the weapons of war industries from selling to the nazis and the Italians, or the industries that provided steel, etc. for their home production of weapons.

Nor, of course, would we take refugees, including the Jewish people fleeing certain death from the nazis.

Why?  The business interests here wanted it that way and FDR didn't want to antagonize them any more than he already had.  And of course, Britain's peace at any price and their biz men.  Plus  -- a HUGE and ENORMOUS PLUS: if we sided against Germany and the fascists and their racial policies we'd have to offend the southern vote in particular, which would have ruined FDR's Southern Strategy -- and anytime anyone protested what the Nazis etc. were doing, they just turned around and pointed fingers at the US and how it treated African Americans, Indians, Jews and other Others, legally and morally.  Let us not forget that it was FDR who appointed Joe Kennedy minister to St. James, and he thought Hitler a brilliant and savvy Gentleman whom he liked very much. 

It was insane.

So of course the Polish cavalry threw themselves into that insane cavalry charge.  That's what they got for helping save Vienna's ass from the Ottomans, not just once but twice.

 

Edited by Zorral

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27 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I understand the logic you're using, but I feel like the premise is wrong. I see no reason to believe a retaliation will cause Republicans to rethink their tactics. I think it will make them become even more heavy handed. What I want is a return to regular order, but as @Shryke said in the last thread, we're not going to get that until Republicans admit that they're at fault here, and I don't see that happening anytime soon either. So I guess our politics will just have to sink further into the gutter. I thought things would go back to normal when we hit some type of rock bottom, but Trump is showing that's not the case. 

I don't really either, because the Republicans are nuts, but since they definitely won't rethink their tactics if there is no retaliation I don't really see any other option.

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31 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I understand the logic you're using, but I feel like the premise is wrong. I see no reason to believe a retaliation will cause Republicans to rethink their tactics. I think it will make them become even more heavy handed. What I want is a return to regular order, but as @Shryke said in the last thread, we're not going to get that until Republicans admit that they're at fault here, and I don't see that happening anytime soon either.

Yeah, I agree. The Republicans are already in a position where nearly unattainable electoral landslides are required to tip them out of their stranglehold over the state legislatures. It will take decades of continuous support for the Democrats, who cannot waver.

The Republicans may look as though they are going day-to-day with no thought of what comes next, but really they're looking ahead. The new battlelines aren't in the ballot box - voter suppression and gerrymandering has ensured that - but in the courts and the executive. When they hold the executive, they abuse it. When they don't, as with Obama and North Carolina, they blockade it.

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49 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I understand the logic you're using, but I feel like the premise is wrong. I see no reason to believe a retaliation will cause Republicans to rethink their tactics. I think it will make them become even more heavy handed. What I want is a return to regular order, but as @Shryke said in the last thread, we're not going to get that until Republicans admit that they're at fault here, and I don't see that happening anytime soon either. So I guess our politics will just have to sink further into the gutter. I thought things would go back to normal when we hit some type of rock bottom, but Trump is showing that's not the case. 

I recommended it like a month or something back, but I would again suggest How Democracies Die as a good read that really helps clarify the forces at work here. And it's pretty dangerous for the health of the democracy. America has been at situations this bad before though and it gets way worse from here if it gets to that.

But the fundamental problem is the violation of what they describe as the two foundations of a fundamental democracy, that are essentially the acknowledgement of the legitimacy of the opposition and holding back from exercising the full legal extent of the powers granted to the governing party (ie - no playing hardball).

The main issue/"issue" I find with the two authors is well they are good at identifying the problems, they don't offer really good solutions. They talk about the danger of this kind of hardball but nothing they suggest really allows a unilateral solution. You need all sides to agree to return to norms. And the Republican party is just extremely unlikely to do that. Because what they are doing works and they don't care about the consequences, up to and including collusion with a foreign power.

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Right on queue for that last point:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/12/politics/house-republicans-russia-conclusions/index.html

Quote

 

Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee reached an opposite conclusion Monday from the intelligence community they oversee, announcing that Russian President Vladimir Putin was not trying to help Donald Trump win the 2016 election.

The Republicans also said they found no evidence that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia and that they are shutting down their yearlong investigation.

 

Half y'alls political parties are actual traitors.
 

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3 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I had my heart set on 'The Stormy is coming from Inside the House!'

I wish she spelled her name 'Stormi', or 'Stormie' it's more porny and even better for puns. 

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39 minutes ago, Shryke said:

Shit, it appears they didn't even tell the Democrats they were going to do this today:

https://twitter.com/maddow/status/973321283499970560

 

They are also seemingly denying that Russia interfered at all in the election. Not just no collusion, but no interference.

I think they are saying the Russians interfered in the election, but no one in the Trump campaign colluded.

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Just now, Fragile Bird said:

I think they are saying the Russians interfered in the election, but no one in the Trump campaign colluded.

No, they're contending that the Russians didn't purposely help Trump.

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From the  last thread:

Quote

John Bolton, the ultrahawk rumored to be Trump’s next national security adviser, explained
Bolton has long had President Trump’s ear. He might soon have a top job in his White House.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/12/17091772/john-bolton-trump-national-security-adviser-war-iran-north-korea
 

Well I thought he was going to get the Chairman of The Council Of Chickenhawks job. That must be going to Ted Nugent.

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19 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Well I thought he was going to get the Chairman of The Council Of Chickenhawks job.

I'm pretty sure that's his official title at the AEI.

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43 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

No, they're contending that the Russians didn't purposely help Trump.

Well, they are agreeing with half of what the intelligence community said months ago, that the Russians interfered with the elections, but not that second half, that they were targeting Clinton and developed a preference for Trump. Instead they say that there is no evidence of collusion. 

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