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Aline de Gavrillac

Appreciation for the Shavepate

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Appreciation for The Shavepate

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the chapters in Slaver’s Bay because of the colorful characters like The Shavepate, Skahaz mo Kandaq.  Reznak mo Reznak too is delightful in his own over-the-top way.  Those chapters were my favorites in A Dance with Dragons.

A description of the Shavepate follows:

Quote

“Ghiscari hair was dense and wiry; it had long been the fashion for the men of the Slaver Cities to tease it into horns and spikes and wings.  By shaving, Skahaz had put old Meereen behind him to accept the new, and his kin had done the same after his example.  Others followed, though whether from fear, fashion, or ambition, Dany could not say; shavepates they were called.  Skahaz was the Shavepate . . . and the vilest of the traitors to the Sons of the Harpy and their ilk.”

In my opinion, the Shavepate is loyal to Dany.  He and his clan sided with Queen Daenerys and they are considered traitors by the harpy.   I don’t think they will be accepted back by the old slaving families.  Maybe there was a faction in Meereen who wanted change.  We don’t have enough information but I believe The Winds of Winter will tell us more about Skahaz. 

It is Reznak that I find suspicious.  He, in my opinion, is the perfumed seneschal.

 

The Way of Peace:

 

To rule Meereen, I must win the Meereenese, however much I may despise them.” [Daenerys Targaryen]

 

The Chicago Way:

 

Skahaz is an advocate for the Chicago Way. 

So the scene opens immediately after Stalwart Shield was murdered by the harpy.  Dany climbs the steps to her throne and is greeted by Reznak and Skahaz.
 

Quote

 

“Great queen,” declared Reznak mo Reznak, “you are so radiant today I fear to look upon you.”

“You are kind to say so.” Dany replied in High Valyrian.

 

Skahaz’s greeting is less charming but maybe more sincere:

Quote

 

“My queen, growled Skahaz mo Kandaq, “we were told about the eunuch.”

“His name was Stalwart Shield”

“More will die unless the murderers are punished.  You have no lack of enemies, Your Grace.  You can see their pyramids from your terrace.  Zhak, Hazkar, Ghazeen, Merreq, Loraq, all the old slaving families.  Pahl.  Phal, most of all.  A house of women now.  Bitter old women with a taste for blood.  Women do not forget.  Women do not forgive.”

“How much gold have we offered for information concerning the Sons of the Harpy?” Dany asked.

“One hundred honors, if it please Your Radiance.”

“One thousand honors would please us more.  Make it so.”

“Your Grace has not asked for my counsel,” said Skahaz Shavepate, “but I say that blood must pay for blood.  Take one man from each of the families I have named and kill him.  The next time one of yours is slain, take two from each great House and kill them both.  There will not be a third murder.”

Reznak squealed in distress.  “Noooo . . . gentle queen, such savagery would bring down the ire of the gods.  We will find the murderers, I promise you, and when we do they will prove to be baseborn filth, you shall see.”

“Skahaz,” Dany told the Shavepate, “I thank you for your counsel.  Reznak, see what one thousand honors may accomplish.”

 

 

 

My Opinion:

Skahaz may have a point.  He is Ghiscari and he knows these people.  Besides, somebody like Stannis would not hesitate to do what the Shavepate is suggesting.  It is violent, but sometimes,  a little violence can put an end to further violence.  It can have a deterrent effect.  Oh the other hand, I give Dany a lot of credit because she wants to try to settle the matter peacefully.   I hope and pray that she doesn’t fall victim to the shortsightedness that brought down Ned Stark.  Rhaegar fought gallantly at the Trident, Rhaegar fought fairly, and he died at the Trident, when all he had to do was to order his men to see that bodily harm comes to Robert.  It's good to have people like Skahaz around because he brings practical advice instead of waxing on about fighting with honor and such nonsense.  I want Dany to continue to hone her skills in the Art of War.   She is quickly learning how to rule.  Slaver’s Bay is a very harsh climate to learn the many skills required to conquer and to rule but Dany is a quick study.  The fact that she's willing to win over the old slavers (despite how she feels about them) in order to govern more effectively is a sign of wisdom.  But wisdom alone is not enough.  Dany needs to learn from the practical advice of older people like Skahaz mo Kandaq and Jorah Mormont.

 

 

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Skahaz has occupied my mind lately.

His brutal honesty often also seemed to me as a sign of loyalty, but something he said made me think that supporting Daenerys is part of his own agenda: "Long has Kandaq waited for this night". He said it just before him and Barristan put their conspiracy against Hizdahr into action.

By the way, when Green Grace spoke against Skahaz, indicating Hizdahr as a more suitable suitor, it seemed to me that the House of Kandaq had been marginalized by the other slave masters, perhaps even deposed in some kind of rebellion (as in "the Kandaq were Valyrian supporters before the Doom but after were politically isolated within Meereen and demoralized").

So the way Shavepate has thrown himself headlong in defense of Daenerys' interests may be motivated solely by a desire to break the power of his house's enemies. For instance, I see no chance of him abandoning Meereen to follow Daenerys on her journey to Westeros.

In truth, depending on the circumstances in which Daenerys or Barristan leave Meereen, I suspect he could even betray them (I mean, if their departure meant they were abandoning Skahaz to his own luck amid of those who call him traitor).

Anyway, Barristan, who affirms to have a nose for troublemakers (and, in fact, dwelt King's Landing Court enough to practice his "gift"), claims not trusting Shavepate.

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1 hour ago, mushroomshirt said:

Have you ever checked out this article?  It is quite compelling:

 

https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/09/27/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-i-who-poisoned-the-locusts/

 

I liked Skahaz even more as a character after I read it.

@Aline de Gavrillac

Seriously. If you have never read this, you need to. It makes a compelling case and your thoughts of the Skahaz may be altered. For better or worse, that's for you to decide. Personally, this article enhanced my enjoyment of the Slayer's Bay chapters dramatically. 

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7 hours ago, Ckram said:

Skahaz has occupied my mind lately.

His brutal honesty often also seemed to me as a sign of loyalty, but something he said made me think that supporting Daenerys is part of his own agenda: "Long has Kandaq waited for this night". He said it just before him and Barristan put their conspiracy against Hizdahr into action.

By the way, when Green Grace spoke against Skahaz, indicating Hizdahr as a more suitable suitor, it seemed to me that the House of Kandaq had been marginalized by the other slave masters, perhaps even deposed in some kind of rebellion (as in "the Kandaq were Valyrian supporters before the Doom but after were politically isolated within Meereen and demoralized").

So the way Shavepate has thrown himself headlong in defense of Daenerys' interests may be motivated solely by a desire to break the power of his house's enemies. For instance, I see no chance of him abandoning Meereen to follow Daenerys on her journey to Westeros.

In truth, depending on the circumstances in which Daenerys or Barristan leave Meereen, I suspect he could even betray them (I mean, if their departure meant they were abandoning Skahaz to his own luck amid of those who call him traitor).

Anyway, Barristan, who affirms to have a nose for troublemakers (and, in fact, dwelt King's Landing Court enough to practice his "gift"), claims not trusting Shavepate.

The Kandaqs and the Loraqs were feuding and from the looks of it, the Loraqs were winning.  It may be a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.  His brutal honesty and his efficiency is the quick way to get it done but it may not be the best way in the long run.  A hybrid approach that incorporates his style with Dany's style is better.

Reznak mo Reznak is the one that I don't trust.  The baseborn people don't have the organization to do what the harpies are doing.  

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Ckram said:

Skahaz has occupied my mind lately.

His brutal honesty often also seemed to me as a sign of loyalty, but something he said made me think that supporting Daenerys is part of his own agenda: "Long has Kandaq waited for this night". He said it just before him and Barristan put their conspiracy against Hizdahr into action.

By the way, when Green Grace spoke against Skahaz, indicating Hizdahr as a more suitable suitor, it seemed to me that the House of Kandaq had been marginalized by the other slave masters, perhaps even deposed in some kind of rebellion (as in "the Kandaq were Valyrian supporters before the Doom but after were politically isolated within Meereen and demoralized").

So the way Shavepate has thrown himself headlong in defense of Daenerys' interests may be motivated solely by a desire to break the power of his house's enemies. For instance, I see no chance of him abandoning Meereen to follow Daenerys on her journey to Westeros.

In truth, depending on the circumstances in which Daenerys or Barristan leave Meereen, I suspect he could even betray them (I mean, if their departure meant they were abandoning Skahaz to his own luck amid of those who call him traitor).

Anyway, Barristan, who affirms to have a nose for troublemakers (and, in fact, dwelt King's Landing Court enough to practice his "gift"), claims not trusting Shavepate.

Of course he has some to win by supporting Daenerys, why would he put someone else before himself. Not many people seem to do that. Her leaving Mereen would probably mean that he would get lynched by the other families (just look at what happened to collabarteurs after WW2) which would make him more loyal to her. 

Edited by Deepbollywood Motte

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bloodraven's Spider said:

The green grace is the harpy 

Hizdahr is most probable but I also think the Green Grace is possible.

9 hours ago, Ckram said:

So the way Shavepate has thrown himself headlong in defense of Daenerys' interests may be motivated solely by a desire to break the power of his house's enemies. For instance, I see no chance of him abandoning Meereen to follow Daenerys on her journey to Westeros.

Could be this, but it is difficult to say until we know the cause of the quarrel between the houses.  I think this guy and his family has thrown in with the Dragon Queen and embraced the new way, a way without slavery.  He and his clan are now bound to Daenerys, regardless of what his original reasons might have been.  

While I am not sold on the "Meereenese Knot" theory proposed on the linked blog above, what I can say is that the Mo Kandags stand to gain by supporting Daenerys.  It elevates them because they become the valued advisors to the new ruler of their city.  I don't think they are necessarily trying to take power for themselves with the intent to rule the city but in serving Daenerys they have found a way to become as powerful as the Zo Loraqs.  He reminds me of LF, except the Shavepate seems to be truly loyal and committed to his new Queen.  It may as simple as somebody adapting to the winds of change and instead of fighting change, he embraced it.  It's better to bend with the wind rather than attempt to fight it and get broken.  In other words, he's like a tree that's bending to the Storm instead of fighting it and breaking.  

Edited by Widowmaker 811

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Hizdahr is most probable 

Why? I support it if you would make a case for him having contact with and some influence on the Harpy but I never really suspected him. He always seemed to me like more of a patsy of the people with real influence in Mereen than really powerful himself

Anyways, I also like the idea that the Harpy is no person, more of an idea.

Edited by Deepbollywood Motte

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Somebody is leading the Harpy.  They're too coordinated.  Notice how they stopped when they needed to?  The harpies are the KKK of Slaver's Bay.  

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14 hours ago, Ckram said:

Skahaz has occupied my mind lately.

His brutal honesty often also seemed to me as a sign of loyalty, but something he said made me think that supporting Daenerys is part of his own agenda: "Long has Kandaq waited for this night". He said it just before him and Barristan put their conspiracy against Hizdahr into action.

By the way, when Green Grace spoke against Skahaz, indicating Hizdahr as a more suitable suitor, it seemed to me that the House of Kandaq had been marginalized by the other slave masters, perhaps even deposed in some kind of rebellion (as in "the Kandaq were Valyrian supporters before the Doom but after were politically isolated within Meereen and demoralized").

So the way Shavepate has thrown himself headlong in defense of Daenerys' interests may be motivated solely by a desire to break the power of his house's enemies. For instance, I see no chance of him abandoning Meereen to follow Daenerys on her journey to Westeros.

In truth, depending on the circumstances in which Daenerys or Barristan leave Meereen, I suspect he could even betray them (I mean, if their departure meant they were abandoning Skahaz to his own luck amid of those who call him traitor).

Anyway, Barristan, who affirms to have a nose for troublemakers (and, in fact, dwelt King's Landing Court enough to practice his "gift"), claims not trusting Shavepate.

I think this is pretty spot-on.  I'm not sure anyone views Skahaz as being truly loyal to Dany, not even Dany herself and readers as well.  He's loyal to himself and his "vision" of Meereen, which certainly involves getting vengeance on the other noble families, especially the Loraqs who the Kandaqs seem to have some sort of Montague/Capulet feud with.  

I'm not sure I see him being clever enough to come up with the poison plot to implicate Hizdahr though...Skahaz seems to be more of a simple violent brute than a manipulator of that order.  I still say that Hizdahr is a patsy, but he's a patsy for whoever the real Harpy is which I'm pretty convinced is the Green Grace (who is leading the Harpies that also include Reznak the "perfumed seneschal.")

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18 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Appreciation for The Shavepate

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the chapters in Slaver’s Bay because of the colorful characters like The Shavepate, Skahaz mo Kandaq.  Reznak mo Reznak too is delightful in his own over-the-top way.  Those chapters were my favorites in A Dance with Dragons.

A description of the Shavepate follows:

In my opinion, the Shavepate is loyal to Dany.  He and his clan sided with Queen Daenerys and they are considered traitors by the harpy.   I don’t think they will be accepted back by the old slaving families.  Maybe there was a faction in Meereen who wanted change.  We don’t have enough information but I believe The Winds of Winter will tell us more about Skahaz. 

It is Reznak that I find suspicious.  He, in my opinion, is the perfumed seneschal.

 

The Way of Peace:

 

To rule Meereen, I must win the Meereenese, however much I may despise them.” [Daenerys Targaryen]

 

The Chicago Way:

 

Skahaz is an advocate for the Chicago Way. 

So the scene opens immediately after Stalwart Shield was murdered by the harpy.  Dany climbs the steps to her throne and is greeted by Reznak and Skahaz.
 

Skahaz’s greeting is less charming but maybe more sincere:

 

 

My Opinion:

Skahaz may have a point.  He is Ghiscari and he knows these people.  Besides, somebody like Stannis would not hesitate to do what the Shavepate is suggesting.  It is violent, but sometimes,  a little violence can put an end to further violence.  It can have a deterrent effect.  Oh the other hand, I give Dany a lot of credit because she wants to try to settle the matter peacefully.   I hope and pray that she doesn’t fall victim to the shortsightedness that brought down Ned Stark.  Rhaegar fought gallantly at the Trident, Rhaegar fought fairly, and he died at the Trident, when all he had to do was to order his men to see that bodily harm comes to Robert.  It's good to have people like Skahaz around because he brings practical advice instead of waxing on about fighting with honor and such nonsense.  I want Dany to continue to hone her skills in the Art of War.   She is quickly learning how to rule.  Slaver’s Bay is a very harsh climate to learn the many skills required to conquer and to rule but Dany is a quick study.  The fact that she's willing to win over the old slavers (despite how she feels about them) in order to govern more effectively is a sign of wisdom.  But wisdom alone is not enough.  Dany needs to learn from the practical advice of older people like Skahaz mo Kandaq and Jorah Mormont.

 

 

My opinion

Chicago way during the war.  Do what needs doing to win the war.  The quicker you win the war the sooner you can work on peace.  Cease fire doesn't mean the end of war.  The war for Meereen never stopped.  The masters were building up their strength.  It was too soon to try the Way of peace.  

I'm surprised with Reznak.  It's obvious after reading this.  He's on the side of the masters.  Baseborn filth didn't kill Stalwart shield.  To even suggest such a thing is indicative of Reznak protecting the masters and their families.  

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7 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Could be this, but it is difficult to say until we know the cause of the quarrel between the houses.  I think this guy and his family has thrown in with the Dragon Queen and embraced the new way, a way without slavery.  He and his clan are now bound to Daenerys, regardless of what his original reasons might have been.  

I suppose it's too kind a view of human nature to expect somebody in Mereen wanted to abolish slavery before Dany's arrival.  That there was a disagreement between the Kandaqs and the other nobles is clear.  My first thought perhaps was a political faction led by the Kandaq family to abolish slavery but there is no evidence to show it.  

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@Widowmaker 811 hizdar is the Green Grace's #1. She's the one who encourages the marriage to Hizdar plus they always assume it's a man which it is not. A harpy from the description we get i believe is genderless (in terms of the human portion). Plus they search for a man and they never find him becuase its a women they need to search for 

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On 3/13/2018 at 4:57 PM, Son of Man said:

I suppose it's too kind a view of human nature to expect somebody in Mereen wanted to abolish slavery before Dany's arrival.  That there was a disagreement between the Kandaqs and the other nobles is clear.  My first thought perhaps was a political faction led by the Kandaq family to abolish slavery but there is no evidence to show it.  

Not necessarily.  Take a large enough group and there will be people within who differ in opinion from the majority.  There are independent thinkers in every herd of cows.  That could be the shavepates. 

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I think that, while green grace and Reznak are, perhaps, harpies, that the Harpy is someone else.

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7 hours ago, Kandrax said:

I think that, while green grace and Reznak are, perhaps, harpies, that the Harpy is someone else.

Who?  I hope you're not suggesting Quaithe.

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7 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Who?  I hope you're not suggesting Quaithe.

I don't have anyone particular in mind.

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