Another Dance of the dragons?

[bent branch]

7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The SSM @Ckram gave is from 2006, long before the finishing an publication of ADwD, which means long before the revelation that Aegon was (supposedly) still alive and on his way to Westeros.

Dany's conquest of Westeros is not going to be another Dance now, obviously. Aegon will conquer Westeros (or at least the Iron Throne and significant parts of the continent will accept him as their king) and then Dany will have to wrest the Iron Throne from him, very much so as Rhaenyra had with Aegon II.

That war/conflict will become known as the Second Dance of the Dragons.

However, whether dragon warfare and dances (i.e. fights) between individual dragons and their riders will play as prominent a role as they did back during the original Dance (where not only an army of princely and dragonseed dragonriders clashed but riderless and wild dragons fought and died, too) is unclear at that point.

Considering that we have only three rather pitiful dragons at this point I very much doubt that we'll see a lot of dragon warfare in this battle. Dragons might be able to play a role in battles, but fights of dragon vs. dragon should not only be exceedingly rare but completely pointless considering that the three dragonriders we can, at this point, have at the tops would be utter morons if they risked their lives and the lives of their dragons in stupid duels.

There could be circumstances where this kind of thing becomes inevitable - say, if the leaders of two clashing armies happen to be dragonriders - but aside from that it should simply not happen.

The dragons would also be pretty insignificant as weapons to threaten the enemy. Dragons the size of Vhagar, Vermithor, Meleys, and Caraxes literally put fear in the heart of all the people that saw them, but with winter come a dragon like Dragon is going to be laughed out of town if he tries to set fire to, say, KL or Oldtown when the roofs of the houses of the city are covered by a ten feet thick layer of snow.

Unless we get other dragons - see, say, the return of the Cannibal, the hatching of some other dragon eggs, or the procreation of Dany's dragons - dragons are not going to play an important role in the Second Dance of the Dragons. Even less so if Dany's dragons have to live to face the Others/play a role in the grand finale.

The war would then getting the name simply because it would be the second time where two Targaryen pretenders to the Iron Throne of Westeros - one of them male and named Aegon (not the Second but rather the Sixth of That Name) fighting against a female pretender.

The fact that Prince Aegon is likely going to exploit Daenerys' absence and effectively steal the throne from under her nose while she is occupied in the Dothraki Sea, Vaes Dothrak, and wherever else she might be in TWoW would also be a parallel to the First Dance - where Greens around Aegon the Elder exploited the fact that Rhaenyra was away on Dragonstone, and tied to her bed due to the advanced stages of her pregnancy when her father died.

That way it is very likely that Dany will have to face a crowned and anointed King Aegon VI Targaryen when she finally arrives, very much like Rhaenyra had to face a crowned and anointed King Aegon II Targaryen when she finally learned of her father's death.

And the parallels could continue - Rhaenyra grew up expecting to sit the throne and rule as Queen Regnant just as Dany (and we, the readers) grew up (and old) waiting for Daenerys Targaryen to get to Westeros and take the Iron Throne from the enemies of her family. After ASoS it was pretty clear that this shouldn't be that difficult with Tywin, Joffrey, Robb, and all of Robert's rebel buddies dead.

The surprise (or the Dance-like betrayal) is that another Targaryen - Aegon - will capitalize on the family name and reputation becoming the golden boy and savior of mankind Daenerys should have been.

In that sense, Dany's story could resemble Rhaenyra's in quite a bit, at least insofar as what they have to do during this Second Dance - Dany doesn't have any sons to lose, of course, but she might be forced to fight as hard as Rhaenyra did, and she may be forced to go to similar dark places as she (or rather Daemon in her name) went.

Unlike Rhaenyra she is likely going to triumph - and considering that she is one of the heroes she might even be smart enough to end this Dance in a different manner than the first one - but victory may come with a cost. The whole thing may make the final fight against the Others that much harder.

And I don't see why any of this is necessary to the story when winter has already arrived and GRRM has sent Marwyn to Dany to let her know the apocalypse has started. Of course, there are plenty of people who claim that GRRM has lost control of his story. They and you may be right.

ETA:  I guess Stannis will truly be the only monarch who cared in the story.

[chrisdaw]

1 hour ago, bent branch said:

And I don't see why any of this is necessary to the story

Because GRRM is writing character arcs, always was and in a nutshell this was always Dany's. Aegon swoops in as the beloved hero to the faith and realm, Dany comes home, realises he's fake, destroys him and for it becomes hated. The whole world says she killed her king to steal the throne (after earlier killing her brother for his claim and her husband for his khalasar), that she lusts for power, is tyrannical, the Mad King's daughter truly. They call Dany her greatest fear, a mad Targaryen.

Then along comes Jonny, the true Aegon, truly king, and Dany has to decide if she bends the knee to him as her king or not. If she doesn't, she proves them all right, and that killing Aegon had nothing to do with legitimacy and blood lines, but that it was all about Dany, about taking the throne. Or if she does bend the knee to Jon she proves them all wrong and regardless of what they say about her she'll know herself it wasn't about power and she isn't a mad Targ.

[Lord Varys]

2 hours ago, bent branch said:

And I don't see why any of this is necessary to the story when winter has already arrived and GRRM has sent Marwyn to Dany to let her know the apocalypse has started. Of course, there are plenty of people who claim that GRRM has lost control of his story. They and you may be right.

Part of the price the fighting in the Second Dance might very well be for the mantle of the savior of mankind. Knowing that the Others are real and a threat is not necessarily going help deciding who has 'the honor' to destroy them. Rhaegar believed his son Aegon was the promised prince, and if Aegon ends up believing that, too, he might not be willing to compromise with Daenerys - or anyone, really.

Vice versa, Dany might not be willing to compromise, too, if she has reason to believe that she has to do what she has to do. She is the promised princess. She will see this through to the end.

2 hours ago, bent branch said:

.ETA:  I guess Stannis will truly be the only monarch who cared in the story.

Stannis fits into this whole thing just as well as Dany or Aegon. He knows the real threat but he still makes Westeros bleed. Instead of trying to forge a broad alliance against the Others he still insist that he is the king and continues to fight the Boltons and Freys. Aegon and Dany might (be forced to) do that on a higher level. If you don't have you ducklings in a row you can't win a war. 

The savior of mankind won't compromise or sit on councils and negotiate with pretenders, morons, and people who think their voice counts.

1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

Because GRRM is writing character arcs, always was and in a nutshell this was always Dany's. Aegon swoops in as the beloved hero to the faith and realm, Dany comes home, realises he's fake, destroys him and for it becomes hated. The whole world says she killed her king to steal the throne (after earlier killing her brother for his claim and her husband for his khalasar), that she lusts for power, is tyrannical, the Mad King's daughter truly. They call Dany her greatest fear, a mad Targaryen.

That is a rather limited view of the actual vision. Aegon will be cheered, that much is a given from the vision in the House of the Undying ... but only for a minute. Or the usual fortnight. He is a distraction, not the main character. He is very likely going to be one of Dany's main antagonists during this Second Dance plot (the other, possibly much more dangerous antagonist will be Euron, of course), but this doesn't have to be a long and particularly bloody war - nor is it likely that it will. There won't be time for that.

George has set up Aegon to become a spectacular failure. The greatest parallel between Aegon and another Targaryen king is the Young Dragon. George gave Daeron I Aegon's lines about him being the only dragon they would need. And that's a very ominous thing to do. Daeron I burned bright but he burned out pretty quickly. The man got himself and tens of thousands of people killed in a completely pointless war. Aegon is likely going to do something similar - all well-intentioned, of course, making the whole thing an interesting tragedy, but still a pointless thing in the end.

He has everything to win the love of his people very quickly but also everything too lose it even more quickly. His Hand is hell-bent on revenge, and will possibly stain Aegon's throne with the blood of children (Tommen and Myrcella's), not to mention that he apparently also intends to target Varys, Aegon's greatest asset at this point. He is also infected with a deadly disease he is likely going to spread, causing a great plague in Westeros which is not going to make Aegon popular.

He'll also have to deal with the new powers of the Faith and enemies that should be way beyond his league, namely Cersei and, especially, Euron. If they ever meet or clash Euron will eat the boy alive.

Aegon will also have to deal with the repercussions from the various wars after he has pacified the country to some degree (assuming he can do that) and the very real threat of the cold and starvation the winter will bring. Illyrio can help feed the people but nobody is going to be prepared for this war.

Many people will believe in him, because it is a miracle that he is still alive and returns, but he may already be a controversial figure long before Daenerys sets so much as a foot on Westerosi soil. Dany won't be popular before she arrives because they can slander her all day long, but when she is finally there and people see her Aegon and his cause should quickly collapse, especially if he uses very ugly methods to get rid of her.

She has dragons. And Aegon has none. At least not yet. Not to much that people might actually be willing to believe that Aegon isn't Rhaegar's if they are disappointed by him.

1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

Then along comes Jonny, the true Aegon, truly king, and Dany has to decide if she bends the knee to him as her king or not. If she doesn't, she proves them all right, and that killing Aegon had nothing to do with legitimacy and blood lines, but that it was all about Dany, about taking the throne. Or if she does bend the knee to Jon she proves them all wrong and regardless of what they say about her she'll know herself it wasn't about power and she isn't a mad Targ.

We won't get that kind of story. This is, in the end, not a story about thrones and claims, and the main characters right now still fighting for thrones, vengeance, personal ambition, etc. will learn that before everything is over.

It is right now already pretty weird to assume that Stannis and Jon would ever fight each other for a throne - because they are already allies against the Others. Dany and Jon will love each other and fight against the Others together. There is no way around that, and any rivalry between these two would be silly and childish after Aegon was the son of Rhaegar who caused problems for his lovely auntie.

[asoiaf_reader]

I don't see why dany would ever bend the knee to anyone. At the worst, she will want to have the same status as whoever ends up with her even if they indeed have a better claim. 

[chrisdaw]

51 minutes ago, asoiaf_reader said:

I don't see why dany would ever bend the knee to anyone. At the worst, she will want to have the same status as whoever ends up with her even if they indeed have a better claim. 

She's going to be chewed up and spat out. Hated, rejected, tossed out, alone, betrayed by those closest to her, whom she loved and who loved her, those she saved and would have never doubted. It is all going to be cause for a bit of self reflection. She is entitled, but being mad is also her greatest fear.

[bent branch]

On 3/22/2018 at 1:18 PM, chrisdaw said:

Because GRRM is writing character arcs, always was and in a nutshell this was always Dany's. Aegon swoops in as the beloved hero to the faith and realm, Dany comes home, realises he's fake, destroys him and for it becomes hated. The whole world says she killed her king to steal the throne (after earlier killing her brother for his claim and her husband for his khalasar), that she lusts for power, is tyrannical, the Mad King's daughter truly. They call Dany her greatest fear, a mad Targaryen.

Then along comes Jonny, the true Aegon, truly king, and Dany has to decide if she bends the knee to him as her king or not. If she doesn't, she proves them all right, and that killing Aegon had nothing to do with legitimacy and blood lines, but that it was all about Dany, about taking the throne. Or if she does bend the knee to Jon she proves them all wrong and regardless of what they say about her she'll know herself it wasn't about power and she isn't a mad Targ.

The problem with character arcs is that you never know where you are with them. The narrative arc of a story is that story's beginning, middle and end. A character arc can be thought of as the characters formative years, conflict and reflection, then resolution or the result of their choices. Unless a story is specifically following a character or characters, the characters you meet in stories are generally somewhere along their arc, which is not necessarily the same place on the arc as the story. An example of this is Ned in the story. We don't see Ned's complete arc, just the concluding months of his life.

The question with Dany is where is she on her arc. Will Dany die by the end of the story or will she live on long past the end of the story? If Dany dies by the end of the story, then Dany's time of angst and fretting over her choices is done. The rest of the story will be showing what the result of her choices are. I think when Dany says, "To go forward I must go back." in Chapter 71 of ADWD, she is exiting the middle part of her story and entering the final part of her story. In other words, I think Dany dies before the end of her story.

It appears you think she will live on, since you think the middle part of Dany's character arc will continue (the part with all the questioning and angst).

[Sea Dragon]

On March 20, 2018 at 4:11 PM, Ckram said:

I found this:

"The second Dance of Dragons does not have to mean Dany's invasion.

Geroge stopped himself short and said he shouldn't say anymore."

(http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/)

Wow. Thank you. So this is going to be a fight between Danaerys and Aegon or faegon then? 

[Sea Dragon]

On March 22, 2018 at 8:44 PM, chrisdaw said:

She's going to be chewed up and spat out. Hated, rejected, tossed out, alone, betrayed by those closest to her, whom she loved and who loved her, those she saved and would have never doubted. It is all going to be cause for a bit of self reflection. She is entitled, but being mad is also her greatest fear.

What? This is crazy and not true at all. The people of Westeros are ready for a Targaryen to return and one who has dragons will correct the wrongs of the past recent kings. 

And Danaerys is not mad. She knows her father was mad and she will not be like him. 

[Sea Dragon]

 

On March 22, 2018 at 7:24 PM, Lord Varys said:

It is right now already pretty weird to assume that Stannis and Jon would ever fight each other for a throne - because they are already allies against the Others. Dany and Jon will love each other and fight against the Others together. There is no way around that, and any rivalry between these two would be silly and childish after Aegon was the son of Rhaegar who caused problems for his lovely auntie.

Oh wow. I like this a lot. It is very romantic and I think that Martin is going to go this way. A romance between Jon and Danaerys is totally fore shadowed in the books. 

[Sea Dragon]

On March 21, 2018 at 2:26 PM, Lollygag said:

Yeah, Jon and Dany as adversaries or the dragons fighting each other is completely impossible 'cause this series is totally about internal family relationships always being all kumbaya where they link arms and sing about love, peace and harmony...

 

 

And no, Jon and Dany are not the title of the series as A Song of Ice and Fire. No good author would be so inelegant as to require readers to dig out their old algebra text books or their kids' algebra textbooks to work it all out: 1/2 Fire + (1/2 Fire + 1/2 Ice) = 3/4 Fire + 1/4 Ice.

 

 

 

I think you might be being sarcastic here, I can't really tell, but Danaerys and Jon are the point of the story. The title of the story as you say. There has to be some peace after a zombie fight and Danaerys and Jon will be there to bring a new elite back to Westeros. I mean , I guess I don't see why to have such a big fight if things don't work out in the end.

[bent branch]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:24 PM, Lord Varys said:

Part of the price the fighting in the Second Dance might very well be for the mantle of the savior of mankind. Knowing that the Others are real and a threat is not necessarily going help deciding who has 'the honor' to destroy them. Rhaegar believed his son Aegon was the promised prince, and if Aegon ends up believing that, too, he might not be willing to compromise with Daenerys - or anyone, really.

Vice versa, Dany might not be willing to compromise, too, if she has reason to believe that she has to do what she has to do. She is the promised princess. She will see this through to the end.

Stannis fits into this whole thing just as well as Dany or Aegon. He knows the real threat but he still makes Westeros bleed. Instead of trying to forge a broad alliance against the Others he still insist that he is the king and continues to fight the Boltons and Freys. Aegon and Dany might (be forced to) do that on a higher level. If you don't have you ducklings in a row you can't win a war. 

The savior of mankind won't compromise or sit on councils and negotiate with pretenders, morons, and people who think their voice counts.

I really think you are over analyzing this. Aemon reached out to all the kings in requesting assistance. Of all the kings, only Stannis answered the call. There were reasons Stannis answered the call and the other kings didn't.

1)  Melisandre told Stannis about the prophecies.

2)  Stannis himself had a vision about the Fist of the First Men.

3)  When Davos pointed out the message from the Wall, Stannis realized that prophecies are coming true now and chose to take most of his troops and go to the Wall.

Now let's consider what Dany's situation will be when she meets Marwyn:

1)  Marwyn will tell Dany about the prophecies, only he will have even more information since he has found three missing pages from "Signs and Portents".

2)  Dany knows the prophecies are true since she will realize that she fulfilled the prophecy about raising dragons from stone.

3)  Marwyn will tell Dany the information he got from Samwell, leaving Dany in no doubt about the fact the prophecy is already coming true.

So Dany will be in the exact same situation as Stannis when she finds out about what is happening in the north. The question truly is, does she ignore what she is told and head south to take the throne, or does she head directly north to meet that threat?

[Lollygag]

12 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

I think you might be being sarcastic here, I can't really tell, but Danaerys and Jon are the point of the story. The title of the story as you say. There has to be some peace after a zombie fight and Danaerys and Jon will be there to bring a new elite back to Westeros. I mean , I guess I don't see why to have such a big fight if things don't work out in the end.

Nope. Not sarcastic.

[Ckram]

54 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

Wow. Thank you. So this is going to be a fight between Danaerys and Aegon or faegon then? 

My pleasure. It seems so.

[Lord Varys]

43 minutes ago, bent branch said:

I really think you are over analyzing this. Aemon reached out to all the kings in requesting assistance. Of all the kings, only Stannis answered the call. There were reasons Stannis answered the call and the other kings didn't.

1)  Melisandre told Stannis about the prophecies.

2)  Stannis himself had a vision about the Fist of the First Men.

3)  When Davos pointed out the message from the Wall, Stannis realized that prophecies are coming true now and chose to take most of his troops and go to the Wall.

That is a little bit too simplified. Stannis intends to save mankind (or rather the people threatened by the Others) to force them to take him as their king by exploiting their gratitude and sense of decency. That is what Davos told him to do. 'You are a great guy, Stannis. Go out and show them that. Then they will have no choice but to accept you.'

Now, right now he has a pretty good picture of what's at stake but he does not try to make common cause with Roose, Ramsay, the Freys, Tommen, the Lannisters, etc. against the Others. He doesn't even make an attempt to convince them that the threat of the Others is very real. Instead he wastes his own men in an attempt to kill other men who he sees as a danger.

And Dany might be forced to do a similar thing with Aegon.

43 minutes ago, bent branch said:

Now let's consider what Dany's situation will be when she meets Marwyn:

1)  Marwyn will tell Dany about the prophecies, only he will have even more information since he has found three missing pages from "Signs and Portents".

2)  Dany knows the prophecies are true since she will realize that she fulfilled the prophecy about raising dragons from stone.

3)  Marwyn will tell Dany the information he got from Samwell, leaving Dany in no doubt about the fact the prophecy is already coming true.

So Dany will be in the exact same situation as Stannis when she finds out about what is happening in the north. The question truly is, does she ignore what she is told and head south to take the throne, or does she head directly north to meet that threat?

Oh, Dany might intend to take her armada north when she finally reaches the shores of Essos (or brings her ships to the Narrow Sea).

In fact, I'm pretty sure it is going to not be the story about Aegon that's going to trigger her decision to go to Westeros, but the news about the immediate threat of the Others along with the final deciphering of the prophecy stuff that's going convince her to go now. After all, a campaign in Westeros in winter could be suicidal and would, in any case, be stupid and costly.

If Dany just wanted her throne she could allow Aegon to shiver on the chair while her dragons grew in Essos during winter, only to confront him in the next spring or summer. That would be the smart thing to do, the thing any sane person driven by political ambition would do.

Not to mention that she could also use Aegon's sudden appearance as an excuse to remain in Essos. If Rhaegar's son lives he can avenge his father and her father, deal with the Usurper's Dogs and restore House Targaryen to its rightful place. She could then the chance to build her empire in Essos - or do whatever the hell she wants to do in life.

Westeros is still just a name, and this whole vengeance thing is something that's laid on her because she is the last of her line. It is her solemn duty as per the rules of her the society she lives in.

But in any case - if she intends to go north to the Wall that doesn't mean she will get there as fast she would like to. There is a reason why Euron Greyjoy has assembled as large an armada as he right now has. And there is the chance that his armada might actually grow (by forcing the Hightowers, surviving Redwynes, Aurane Waters, pirates on the Stepstones to join his ranks - not to mention the chance that the Three Daughters might end up making an alliance with him against Daenerys). And there is a reason why this guy is set up as a mad sorcerer and not as the kind of guy you might be able to reason or make common cause with.

If Euron unleashes his magics and ships against Dany's armada (the way he is likely going to crush the Redwyne fleet in the very near future) he could not only deal her a major blow, he could also scatter her armada and force most of her ships in the south of Westeros, never mind that the plan may have been to deal with the Others first and only deal with petty thrones and crowns afterwards.

And when she lands in the south she may have to concern herself with Aegon before she can do anything else.

She might even be forced to do that simply to have the power and standing to tell others what to do to stop the Others.

Again, the War for the Dawn is not going to be won by a committee. There can be a group of heroes at the top, but they would be people who really grow

[bent branch]

23 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That is a little bit too simplified. Stannis intends to save mankind (or rather the people threatened by the Others) to force them to take him as their king by exploiting their gratitude and sense of decency. That is what Davos told him to do. 'You are a great guy, Stannis. Go out and show them that. Then they will have no choice but to accept you.'

Now, right now he has a pretty good picture of what's at stake but he does not try to make common cause with Roose, Ramsay, the Freys, Tommen, the Lannisters, etc. against the Others. He doesn't even make an attempt to convince them that the threat of the Others is very real. Instead he wastes his own men in an attempt to kill other men who he sees as a danger.

And Dany might be forced to do a similar thing with Aegon.

I have said that I think the question is much simpler than you think. I don't want to get into an argument about whether it is reasonable or not to expect Stannis to try get people who think the Others are myth to make common cause with him. Even the clans are only helping to "get Ned's little girl back". I predict an acrimonious exchange if we take this any further.

 

[chrisdaw]

2 hours ago, Sea Dragon said:

What? This is crazy and not true at all. The people of Westeros are ready for a Targaryen to return and one who has dragons will correct the wrongs of the past recent kings. 

And Danaerys is not mad. She knows her father was mad and she will not be like him. 

But when does she ride the unicorns over the rainbows?

[Lost Melnibonean]

36 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

But when does she ride the unicorns over the rainbows?

No, that's Rickon, silly. 

[chrisdaw]

5 hours ago, bent branch said:

The problem with character arcs is that you never know where you are with them.

Not really, their arcs tell you how long they're around for. Ned was disposable exactly because he didn't have an arc. Not easy to tell when first reading AGOT, decades later with 5 books and a bunch of subsequent material not so hard to put things in perspective.

If Dany will die or not is independent of that part of her arc that I relayed, Jon won't end on the Iron throne and probably won't even sit it at all (not as king anyway), but he is going to go south and conquer it and broker a deal to sit someone on it. Dany accepting Jon as her king is her supporting his campaign and accepting who they sit on the throne that isn't her.

Doing what is right for the realm and accepting that she isn't the person for the job, or that the realm wouldn't accept her. As she should/could have done in the first place when a beloved Aegon sat the throne, an Aegon who if Dany had supported instead of fighting with could have united the realm and easily defeated the Others.

Having learned from the Aegon mistake and put the realm ahead of herself and Targaryen lineage on the second chance with Jon, then Dany is then free to die in TWFTD or however else.

She will die but she will second life a dragon, a dragon that will be like Balerion and end the Long Night. What we do in life echoes in eternity, no, the more fiercely the man burned in life, the brighter his star will shine in the darkness.

[Lord Varys]

On 24.3.2018 at 3:57 AM, bent branch said:

I have said that I think the question is much simpler than you think. I don't want to get into an argument about whether it is reasonable or not to expect Stannis to try get people who think the Others are myth to make common cause with him. Even the clans are only helping to "get Ned's little girl back". I predict an acrimonious exchange if we take this any further.

The fact is that Stannis didn't make any attempt to convince anybody in the North that the Others are a thing and that he is the one to save everyone. Mel paints him as the super savior in front of the wildlings, but he doesn't write letters to anyone, claiming that he is the promised prince or the reborn Azor Ahai and that they have to help him for that reason. He doesn't even make an attempt to inform the Boltons, Freys, Lannisters, or the Realm at large of the danger they are all in.

That is simply a fact.

What isn't a fact is that the Wall will fall before Daenerys Targaryen shows up in Westeros. If that happened then people might actually finally consider the Others their top priority. But while the Wall still stands every person in the Seven Kingdoms can learn of their existence - and their vast undead army - and still decide that their own petty problems are still more important than dealing with that threat because those creatures are not going to be a threat while the Wall still stands.

Which would also give Dany the chance to first take her birthright and then use the power that comes with that to defeat the Others. Knowing that your ultimate purpose is to fight against the common enemy, doesn't mean you have to fully understand that you should better ignore everything else and deal with the Others first.

It shouldn't be that hard, either, if she comes with a vast army and armada. KL happens to be a coastal city, and all she needs is the Iron Throne, really. If a Targaryen takes the Iron Throne the rabble will fall in line.

It will be the same with Aegon. Once King Aegon VI Targaryen is crowned most resistance against his rule will collapse. Euron and Cersei will continue to oppose him, but the Reach, the Vale, the Riverlands, etc. will do him homage.

[bent branch]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The fact is that Stannis didn't make any attempt to convince anybody in the North that the Others are a thing and that he is the one to save everyone. Mel paints him as the super savior in front of the wildlings, but he doesn't write letters to anyone, claiming that he is the promised prince or the reborn Azor Ahai and that they have to help him for that reason. He doesn't even make an attempt to inform the Boltons, Freys, Lannisters, or the Realm at large of the danger they are all in.

That is simply a fact.

What isn't a fact is that the Wall will fall before Daenerys Targaryen shows up in Westeros. If that happened then people might actually finally consider the Others their top priority. But while the Wall still stands every person in the Seven Kingdoms can learn of their existence - and their vast undead army - and still decide that their own petty problems are still more important than dealing with that threat because those creatures are not going to be a threat while the Wall still stands.

Which would also give Dany the chance to first take her birthright and then use the power that comes with that to defeat the Others. Knowing that your ultimate purpose is to fight against the common enemy, doesn't mean you have to fully understand that you should better ignore everything else and deal with the Others first.

It shouldn't be that hard, either, if she comes with a vast army and armada. KL happens to be a coastal city, and all she needs is the Iron Throne, really. If a Targaryen takes the Iron Throne the rabble will fall in line.

It will be the same with Aegon. Once King Aegon VI Targaryen is crowned most resistance against his rule will collapse. Euron and Cersei will continue to oppose him, but the Reach, the Vale, the Riverlands, etc. will do him homage.

I know you think what you are saying makes sense. However, it is irrational for you to be expecting Stannis to be running around the north like a madman talking about mythical beings and prophecies. We saw how well that worked for the Targaryens. For instance, what you are refusing to acknowledge that when Stannis is talking to the Wildlings he is talking to people who KNOW the others are real and moving south. Practically no one south of the Wall believes in the Others, wights, etc. Marwyn warned Sam to not talk about these things unless he wanted to end up dead. Seriously, Stannis is doing the best thing he can in eliminating the threat from the south so that he can so he can turn his attention north.

And what the question for Dany is, if she genuinely believes that there is a threat in the north that is occurring right now is it a moral choice to first head south to take a throne even YOU are saying will probably be filled to most people's satisfaction with Aegon?