The Order of the Green Hand

[Anck Su Namun]

8 hours ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

Hello guys have you guys checked out this channel?

They make great quality videos and some very unique and convincing theories. I feel like they might be among the few who actually have figured out a large part of the books lol.

What do you guys think of their theories?  

Please be calm and nice in comments 

I like their channel.  I don't necessarily agree with all of their theories but I agree that R + L = J is a lame theory.  

They present their ideas very well.  I am a subscriber to their Youtube channel.  I also love "Ideas of ice and Fire" and Preston Jacobs.

I can't stand Radio Westeros though.

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

I just watched Cat sucks part 1. Is it irony?

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

5 hours ago, Lollygag said:

A lot of their videos are just picking a subject, object or character and breaking it down, not picking a random pile of stuff and bending backwards to try to connect it just to generate views.

http://asoiaf-crackpot-theories.weebly.com/

hahahahaha, thanks for the link (?)

[Reekazoid]

6 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Seriously, my secret wish is for someone to make youtube videos of crackpots like these using book “evidence” as a parody of logical contortions and fallacies so often used in video theories

 This YouTube channel  already exists. It is called Order of the Green Hand.

[The Mother of The Others]

If your hand is green, you're gardening wrong.    A green thumb is acceptable.   More green fingers than that and it's become incestuous.   They're overdoing it with the ego fungus, and you know that everyone eventually picks their nose.   That's when the green fungus got into their brains.   If you prefer cliff's notes vids to the books, that's a bias to enjoy separately and away from the website for bookishnessity.  For the best results.  For this result, pimp them here.

[must needs the rushes]

I enjoy their videos for the different perspective and usually good presentation, but they constantly overreach and draw connections that aren't really there.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

They seem to be very emotional involved in their theories. Even going so far as to say it would be bad writing if what they purpose doesn't turn out to be true. Opposed to someone like Preston Jacobs who will admit that he's probably wrong about at least half of what he says.

[Naive Reader]

9 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It’s a nice day for a... wight wedding. 

brilliant

[Darth Sidious]

They're great.  Dave and Mary Ellen are their names, I believe.  I recommend their channel. 

[Knight Of Winter]

17 hours ago, Lollygag said:

http://asoiaf-crackpot-theories.weebly.com/

 

I got

Spoiler

Starks will fall into ruin

and it saddened me because it's not crackpot at all

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

18 hours ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

Hello lady i am not angry at you or anything i promise and i believe you are a good person but i get the feeling that you think very little of me because of a ridiculous thing. I am quite caring of people who dont feel well and are left outside yet from nothing you make me out to be some kind of offensive sexist because i make general claims that beautiful people often pick partners who are of a little higher beauty standard than normal and that it is particularly rare to see a couple where one of the partners is of significant significant lesser beauty standards than the other.

People of both genders are generally attracted to our current highest beauty standards.

I have never claimed that everyone are like that not at all. 

By our beauty standards and i think all beauty standards my man bloodraven is just not generally considerd by women to be attractive. Readers should think that it is not impossible but a little bit odd. Actually quite odd. 

Im gonna make this very clear. The people who are considerd the highest epitome of beauty in our world by the great mass of people generally are quite aware of how they look and they search for people who are also of very high beauty standards. Especially when they can pick pretty much any partner in the world. I cant imagine a world in which this is controverisall or would offend anyone but somehow i am offensive to you. 

I think you are a little reverse immature and have taken this to far. 

I think that if you consider yourself a caring person then maybe when a person says hey, this is offensive. That you should take the time to consider what they tell you. especially if you expect or would appreciate the same level of consideration back from others. I noticed you telling someone you find the word fuck offensive. And asked them not to use it. Yet when someone tells you that assuming all attractive women are shallow and only care about looks is offensive you decide that they are being over mature? (what even is that?)

No people are attracted to a wide array of aspects, physical appearance is not the most important factor in attraction at all. It comes down to a myriad of things, personality, sense of humour, interests, political leanings, religious viewpoints, music taste, Hormonal profile is probably the biggest. We are drawn to people through their sweat and tend to desire people who have a very different immune profile to us as it then gives offspring a wider immunity. Looks whilst they certainly matter are not the sole reason we are attracted to someone. And insinuating that for good looking people it is you are being really rude. You're saying that you think good looking people are automatically shallow and vacuous. 

In the case of Bloodraven and Shiera Seastar they were living in the same castle for large periods of their lives. So we can assume she knew him pretty well. In which case the logical conclusion is that she and he got along well, had similar interests, viewpoints, and values. And that was what she saw in him. 

And considering people thought that she was a witch who bathed in human blood. I very much doubt she gave a fig for what the general public thought of her partner. 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

On 27/03/2018 at 6:51 PM, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

I feel like this snowflake planet is not for me im to simple.

People find everything offensive nowdays. 

Given the author of ASOIAF, which you are clearly a fan of, considers himself a feminist, to be so dismissive of a feminist critique of your opinions likely means you are going to lose an opportunity to have a greater understanding of the books and the characters in them. 

Throughout the series, the usual, often sexist, tropes with regards to women are challenged and dissected. It is therefore extremely useful to the dedicated reader to view the books and their characters through a feminist lense. You will be unable to do so if you simply brush off such discussion with such boring and childish MRA-style slogans like "snowflake".

You're making out that @The Weirwoods Eyes and others are being overly sensitive. They weren't, they provided you with a very intelligent and detailed response as to why one of the theories was based on a sexist assumption, of the kind that the books time and again challenge, dissect and overturn.

Engage intelligently and thoughtfully with other people's opinions, or don't ask for them at all. 

[KingLordPresidentMaster]

3 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Given the author of ASOIAF, which you are clearly a fan of, considers himself a feminist, to be so dismissive of a feminist critique of your opinions likely means you are going to lose an opportunity to have a greater understanding of the books and the characters in them. 

Throughout the series, the usual, often sexist, tropes with regards to women are challenged and dissected. It is therefore extremely useful to the dedicated reader to view the books and their characters through a feminist lense. You will be unable to do so if you simply brush off such discussion with such boring and childish MRA-style slogans like "snowflake".

You're making out that @The Weirwoods Eyes and others are being overly sensitive. They weren't, they provided you with a very intelligent and detailed response as to why one of the theories was based on a sexist assumption, of the kind that the books time and again challenge, dissect and overturn.

Engage intelligently and thoughtfully with other people's opinions, or don't ask for them at all. 

I would also consider myself a feminist in that i consider that men and women should have the same rights and should be treated the same way as men and should be payed the same for equal amounts of work. 

I just feel like a lot of people have taken this in a militant kind of overboard way and i believe George thinks the same. 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

8 minutes ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

I would also consider myself a feminist in that i consider that men and women should have the same rights and should be treated the same way as men and should be payed the same for equal amounts of work. 

I just feel like a lot of people have taken this in a militant kind of overboard way and i believe George thinks the same.

Good for you.

However, the point is not that you have to be a feminist, but that people discussing your opinions from a feminist perspective will undoubtedly help you in understanding the books and developing theories about them. Feminist ideas in this context are perfectly legitimate, and therefore to simply dismiss them as people being "too easily offended", is lazy, and does you a disservice as a self-declared feminist.

At no point did anyone react in an over-sensitive or "militant" manner to your opinions, they politely criticised them. Having asked people's opinion you have a duty to engage with those opinions, not dismiss them as "snowflakes".

I have no idea where you get this from: 

14 minutes ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

i believe George thinks the same

but you should provide a quote or source to back that up. 

[KingLordPresidentMaster]

37 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Good for you.

However, the point is not that you have to be a feminist, but that people discussing your opinions from a feminist perspective will undoubtedly help you in understanding the books and developing theories about them. Feminist ideas in this context are perfectly legitimate, and therefore to simply dismiss them as people being "too easily offended", is lazy, and does you a disservice as a self-declared feminist.

At no point did anyone react in an over-sensitive or "militant" manner to your opinions, they politely criticised them. Having asked people's opinion you have a duty to engage with those opinions, not dismiss them as "snowflakes".

I have no idea where you get this from: 

but you should provide a quote or source to back that up. 

The thing was that i thought it was strange that the hottest girl in the world would be attracted to a quite not attractive dude.

And she went ham saying i reinforce sexist stereotypes that hot women are shallow.

The Weirwoods Eyes got very offended and i believe she just wrote me off as a bigot.

 

One of them on top of my head is when a black interviewer asked why there arent more black people in fantasy and he looked very very annoyed and irritated.

 

[Jaehaerys Tyrell]

6 minutes ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

The thing was that i thought it was strange that the hottest girl in the world would be attracted to a quite not attractive dude

Does the text ever say he’s even unattractive? Targaryens are said to have an almost inhuman beauty, so even with albinism, a huge birth mark and a gaunt figure, I see no reason that Bloodraven couldn’t still be considered to have a certain beauty. 

In the text we see that Tysha was attracted to Tyrion, who was likely far less attractive than her. 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

4 minutes ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

The thing was that i thought it was strange that the hottest girl in the world would be attracted to a quite not attractive dude.

And she went ham saying i reinforce sexist stereotypes that hot women are shallow.

She also explained in some detail, and very politely, why such an opinion does in fact reinforce these sexist stereotypes. 

5 minutes ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

The Weirwoods Eyes got very offended and i believe she just wrote me off as a bigot.

I see no evidence of her getting "very offended". I have no idea whether she wrote you off as a bigot or not, and neither do you, as that wasn't written in any of her comments.

Instead, you are projecting your assumptions onto someone. As soon as they suggest that some of your opinions may display a degree of (I'm positive, unconscious) sexism, you immediately write their views off as an emotional reaction rather than an intelligent opinion, and use that as an excuse not to engage with them.

You are perfectly entitled to believe your opinions are not sexist, and argue as to why that is, but give people the respect due to them and don't just brush off any opinions that differ from yours as being down to them being "snowflakes", or whatever. 

9 minutes ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

One of them on top of my head is when a black interviewer asked why there arent more black people in fantasy and he looked very very annoyed and irritated.

Right. So you have no evidence for that.

For one thing, I saw that interview, and that wasn't his reaction at all. It was however manipulated by some racists to look that way in some of the darker depths of YouTube, in order to justify their views by tying GRRM to them. That was extremely distasteful. 

Second, the discussion was about people of colour and their representation in fantasy. Why that pertains to a discussion about whether your theory may display some sexist tropes I have no idea. 

Third, you seem to be suggesting that your interpretation of his facial expression in one interview endorses your opinions. Again, I would suggest this is projection, and certainly isn't evidence.

If you cannot find even one example of GRRM supporting your frankly confused and rather primitive opinions on sexism, you should probably retract your statement that he does. It doesn't strengthen your opinions, it makes it look like you are casting about for anything to give them the appearance of being endorsed.

[Nowy Tends]

16 minutes ago, KingLordPresidentMaster said:

The thing was that i thought it was strange that the hottest girl in the world would be attracted to a quite not attractive dude.

It happens commonly in real life (thankfully).

I take it that you are probably younger than most posters here.

And as said above there's nothing in the text leading to think that Brynden is unattractive.

[KingLordPresidentMaster]

1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

It happens commonly in real life (thankfully).

I take it that you are probably younger than most posters here.

And as said above there's nothing in the text leading to think that Brynden is unattractive.

Seriously look at bloodraven. He is an albino, he has red eyes, on the right side of his face he had a red winestain birthmark that extended from his throat up to his right cheek, he is very thin and gaunt and he has a grim forbidding creepy aspect and people are affraid off him, blame him for everything bad and think that he is mysterious and a sinister sorceror and spymaster. 

He is simply not attractive by any standards.

[KingLordPresidentMaster]

1 hour ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

She also explained in some detail, and very politely, why such an opinion does in fact reinforce these sexist stereotypes. 

I see no evidence of her getting "very offended". I have no idea whether she wrote you off as a bigot or not, and neither do you, as that wasn't written in any of her comments.

Instead, you are projecting your assumptions onto someone. As soon as they suggest that some of your opinions may display a degree of (I'm positive, unconscious) sexism, you immediately write their views off as an emotional reaction rather than an intelligent opinion, and use that as an excuse not to engage with them.

You are perfectly entitled to believe your opinions are not sexist, and argue as to why that is, but give people the respect due to them and don't just brush off any opinions that differ from yours as being down to them being "snowflakes", or whatever. 

Right. So you have no evidence for that.

For one thing, I saw that interview, and that wasn't his reaction at all. It was however manipulated by some racists to look that way in some of the darker depths of YouTube, in order to justify their views by tying GRRM to them. That was extremely distasteful. 

Second, the discussion was about people of colour and their representation in fantasy. Why that pertains to a discussion about whether your theory may display some sexist tropes I have no idea. 

Third, you seem to be suggesting that your interpretation of his facial expression in one interview endorses your opinions. Again, I would suggest this is projection, and certainly isn't evidence.

If you cannot find even one example of GRRM supporting your frankly confused and rather primitive opinions on sexism, you should probably retract your statement that he does. It doesn't strengthen your opinions, it makes it look like you are casting about for anything to give them the appearance of being endorsed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/9959063/Game-of-Throness-George-RR-Martin-Im-a-feminist.html

But Bellafonte's comments still rankle with Martin a year later because he is, at heart, a feminist, despite being cautious about admitting it.

‘There was a period in my life when I would have called myself a feminist, back in the seventies, when the feminist movement was really getting going and growing out of the counter culture of the sixties,’ he says. ‘But the feminist movement has changed. Sometime in the 80s and 90s I read some pieces by women saying that no man can ever be a feminist and you shouldn't call yourself that because it's hypocritical, so I backed off. I thought if the current crop of feminists believes that no man can be a feminist, then I guess I’m not one.’

How was it manipulated and how are they racist the guy who made the video with grrrm and the black guy?