How far will Arya go to kill her enemies?

[kissdbyfire]

6 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

It seems there are several of you who have invented a different Arya in your heads than the one who exists in the book.

I'd say is not so much inventing a different character, but rather ignoring the text and dismissing the evidence just because we really, really need another Stark hate thread.  

[Clegane'sPup]

14 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

She killed/wounded an unknown number of people defending the keep with the people bound for the NW, and could if you'd like be given credit for the 3 guards who were killed to free the northern prisoners in Harrenhall, but didn't do it directly.

Thanks for including that.because it supports the idea that the girl child is not mindless murderer committing mass mayhem for pleasure.

[Varysblackfyre321]

10 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Come on dude, just admit you got the timeline wrong.

I freely admitted I made mistake in the post your quoting. The Kindly old man did not tell Arya  the insurance man was corrupt prior or post her taking of the man's life. She took the kindly old man's words to mean as such with readiness. At last,she could kill this man without feeling bad. She didn't really put anymore thought in any other possibility. 

Overtime, I'm sure we'll see as she's given more assignments of this nature her anxiety over "is this person bad or good" will lower, and she will search less for excuses and more for results-the kindly old man has made perfectly clear at this point if she stays under their tutelage she will be expected to give the gift to the "good" and "bad" alike. 

10 hours ago, Sigella said:

Totally wrong, since you made a big deal of her not knowing until after.

 

And you also forget that she hasn't signed on with the FM - they tell her all the time that she isn't one of them yet - and she kept needle and killed both Dareon and Raff in spite of FM-rules. 

Wrong to a degree. My initial statement posits the kindly old man had not labeled the insurance man a crook prior to Arya's murder of him in that I am righg.. He did not do so. But nor after.  In that I am unequivocally wrong.

She isn't one of them yet true.

She's an apprentice now.

Shes training to be one of them. 

She did hide needle and kill Raff and Daeron. 

These actions show is Arya Stark still deep down.  I would also add her helping out Sam(an utter stranger to her), shows so as well.

But Arya Stark is still playing service to this murder cult who expects her to kill for them whoever they point to in order to continue the little teachings shed garnered. Arya has accepted the possibility. Perhaps if it comes  to that she'll runaway all the way back to Westeroess.I doubt it quite frankly. I see that as merely a quick way to get her throat slit and I don't see that as her end. Not sad enough for dark heart.

[Varysblackfyre321]

19 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Thanks for including that.because it supports the idea that the girl child is not mindless murderer committing mass mayhem for pleasure.

No she isn't. That much is obviously clear. 

[Light a wight tonight]

4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Nobody is doubting her feelings of affection for her family.  That is partly the problem.  She wants to kill everybody that she feels have wronged her family.  We're talking about a person who took the trouble to enroll in a school for murderers so she can learn how to kill.  The girl is too focused on revenge.

I agree with you.  

Disagree on this point. She didn't "take the trouble". She sought refuge there once she reached Braavos. She didn't go to Braavos to join the FM and was unaware of the nature of the House of Black and White until the Kindly Man explained it to her, at which point she was already there and penniless in a foreign country.

[Clegane'sPup]

51 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Daeron. 

I had forgotten about Dareon, the deserter, who left Aemon, Gilly & babe and Sam penniless. Arya over stepped on that one. She is not the Warden of the North entrusted to carry out the King’s justice, her father was once though.

I find the boot thing odd.  Arya comes back to Brusco’s to turn in the coin she had collected from selling the seafood.

A Feast for Crows - Cat Of The Canals      Brusco gave the purse a pat. “Good. But what is this?”    "Boots."   "Good boots are hard to find," said Brusco, "but these are too small for my feet."

When Arya returns to the HoBaW and the kindly man asks her what three things she learned she tells him Dareon is dead.

A Feast for Crows - Cat Of The Canals      "And the third thing?"   This time she did not hesitate. "Dareon is dead. The black singer who was sleeping at the Happy Port. He was really a deserter from the Night's Watch. Someone slit his throat and pushed him into a canal, but they kept his boots."   "Good boots are hard to find."

Doesn’t really mean anything, about the boots I mean, it’s just odd. Both men saying the same thing.

[Sigella]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I freely admitted I made mistake in the post your quoting. The Kindly old man did not tell Arya  the insurance man was corrupt prior or post her taking of the man's life. She took the kindly old man's words to mean as such with readiness. At last,she could kill this man without feeling bad. She didn't really put anymore thought in any other possibility. 

Overtime, I'm sure we'll see as she's given more assignments of this nature her anxiety over "is this person bad or good" will lower, and she will search less for excuses and more for results-the kindly old man has made perfectly clear at this point if she stays under their tutelage she will be expected to give the gift to the "good" and "bad" alike. 

Wrong to a degree. My initial statement posits the kindly old man had not labeled the insurance man a crook prior to Arya's murder of him in that I am righg.. He did not do so. But nor after.  In that I am right. 

She isn't one of them yet true.

She's an apprentice now.

Shes training to be one of them. 

She did hide needle and kill Raff and Daeron. 

These actions show is Arya Stark still deep down.  I would also add her helping out Sam(an utter stranger to her), shows so as well.

But Arya Stark is still playing service to this murder cult who expects her to kill for them whoever they point to in order to continue the little teachings shed garnered. Arya has accepted the possibility. Perhaps if it comes  to that she'll runaway all the way back to Westeroess.I doubt it quite frankly. I see that as merely a quick way to get her throat slit and I don't see that as her end. Not sad enough for dark heart.

Are you really arguing that he didn't say what he said on page?

It was an explanation to why anyone would want mr Insurance dead. Untrue or vague doesnt matter - it still serves as a way to fit with Aryas morality, he was bad and deserved it. Granted its an unhealthy view,  but its hardly a bloodthirsty psycho-sadist you try tomake her out to be.

 

Also one might assume smallfolk innocents aren't a common target for the costliest assassins in the known world.

[Kandrax]

8 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

're talking about a person who took the trouble to enroll in a school for murderer

Nevermind.

[Kandrax]

6 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

Hooray, another sex-mad theory…

Sex-mad theory, you say? Still better love story than Twilight.

[zandru]

5 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Doesn’t really mean anything, about the boots I mean, it’s just odd. Both men saying the same thing.

In fact, everybody says it, throughout the book. It's one of those common sayings, like "much and more".

Having scanned quickly through the responses, it sure seems to me that there are a few who just hate Arya Stark and will twist and spin and fabricate to make her out as a tiny homocidal monster. I can only conclude those folks have been sent by Sansa.

;-)    for the humor-impaired.

[300 H&H Magnum]

Here's a quote from A Storm of Swords:

Cold fingers walked down Arya's neck.  Fear cuts deeper than swords, she reminded herself.  She stood and approached the fire wearily, light on the balls of her feet, poised to flee.  

The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes.  "I see you," she whispered.  "I see you, wolf child.  Blood child.  I thought it was the lord who smelled of death . . ."  She began to sob, her little body shaking.  "You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel.  I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours.  Begone from here, dark heart.  Begone!"

The old woman has seen plenty of bloodshed and grief in her time and yet she is repulsed by Arya.   There is no happy future for Arya.  She's too far gone.  

Very well, back to the original question.  How far is Arya willing to go to kill the people on her list?  I would think it depends on the person.  She doesn't hate them all equally.  Cersei?  That one is prime target.  I don't believe Arya will let anything or anyone stop her from taking Cersei's life.  That is, even to the point of taking out thousands of innocent lives.  

To another interesting question presented; what happens when Arya learns that the Night's Watch killed Jon Snow?  We know Jon started a quarrel with the Boltons and did a lot of wrongs.  However, I doubt Arya would care what Jon did.  I would not be surprised if Arya decides to go to the wall and start murdering the crows.  

Finally, my list of the characters who are the most motivated by revenge.  

1. Lady Stoneheart
2. Arya Stark
3. Walder Frey

[zandru]

11 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

To another interesting question presented; what happens when Arya learns that the Night's Watch killed Jon Snow? 

Well, so far, Arya has only killed "targets of opportunity" that fell into her lap. We have never at any time seen her go out and track down people from her list. (The insurance fraudster was not "on her (personal) list", he was duty.)

That said, I think Arya would just add the perps to her list and continue her Faceless Man training, as before. I can hope she'll return to Westeros at some point, even though there's no longer a "home" to return to, nor any remaining family, outside of Nymeria. If she truly absorbs and accepts her Faceless training, however, everybody on her list immediately becomes untouchable.

[The Fattest Leech]

All roads lead back home. I’m  paraphrasing, but we are told that in the story, and for a reason. Those who can’t see Arya for what she is, and what the Faceless cult is, are going to be bogged down with TWOW. 

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 4/1/2018 at 7:47 PM, Son of Man said:

How far will Arya go to kill her enemies?

Isn't it obvious?  Whatever it takes.  She lives for revenge and she's as empty inside as her mother, Lady Stoneheart.  The lives of innocent people are not going to dissuade Arya from her revenge.  Her sense of right and wrong is faulty.  Just imagine how berserk she will get when she learns that Jon was executed for treason.

Whatever it takes is the answer to the op's question.   Arya won't let the lives of the innocent prevent her from killing her family's enemies.   Somebody will hopefully stop/kill Arya before she murders more people.  

On 4/1/2018 at 8:56 PM, Rufus Snow said:

Insane... no. PTSD, maybe. I hope some of the people posting here have more compassion for veterans than they show for Arya.

I have compassion for war veterans who don't commit murder after they become civilians.  You can have compassion but you can't accept the negative behavior.   

Arya is not the only person to suffer trauma.  You can't give her a break just because her family came out on the losing end.  Ned and Sansa were victims, but Catelyn, Jon, and Robb were participants who got what they deserved.  

[Light a wight tonight]

20 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I had forgotten about Dareon, the deserter, who left Aemon, Gilly & babe and Sam penniless. Arya over stepped on that one. She is not the Warden of the North entrusted to carry out the King’s justice, her father was once though.

I find the boot thing odd.  Arya comes back to Brusco’s to turn in the coin she had collected from selling the seafood.

A Feast for Crows - Cat Of The Canals      Brusco gave the purse a pat. “Good. But what is this?”    "Boots."   "Good boots are hard to find," said Brusco, "but these are too small for my feet."

When Arya returns to the HoBaW and the kindly man asks her what three things she learned she tells him Dareon is dead.

A Feast for Crows - Cat Of The Canals      "And the third thing?"   This time she did not hesitate. "Dareon is dead. The black singer who was sleeping at the Happy Port. He was really a deserter from the Night's Watch. Someone slit his throat and pushed him into a canal, but they kept his boots."   "Good boots are hard to find."

 

Doesn’t really mean anything, about the boots I mean, it’s just odd. Both men saying the same thing.

I think it's a recurring theme. They kept Janos Slynt's boots for the same reason.  I think someone else's boots were kept. Good boots must be hard to find.

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

I think it's a recurring theme. They kept Janos Slynt's boots for the same reason.  I think someone else's boots were kept. Good boots must be hard to find.

Mel talks about them too, when she talks about RattleMance's glamor. She brings up a bag of fingerbones (red herring), and the boots. Could be foreshadowing, since they're mentioned by Mel in regards to a glamor, and twice w/ Arya who is going to learn how to do glamors and who kept Dareon's boots.

[Light a wight tonight]

29 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Whatever it takes is the answer to the op's question.   Arya won't let the lives of the innocent prevent her from killing her family's enemies.   Somebody will hopefully stop/kill Arya before she murders more people.  

There is no evidence for Arya doing non-selective killings. Each one has been for a reason. Good reason? That's open to discussion. But there have been no random killings or "collateral damage" killings. 

As an hypothetical example, she might kill a White Cloak who tries to keep her from killing Cersei, but would not burn down a houseful of people to get her.

Now look at Walder Frey, who kills a few thousand people over a slight or Tywin, who wipes out two whole noble houses, the Reynes and the Tarbecks just to establish his authority.

[Light a wight tonight]

4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Mel talks about them too, when she talks about RattleMance's glamor. She brings up a bag of fingerbones (red herring), and the boots. Could be foreshadowing, since they're mentioned by Mel in regards to a glamor, and twice w/ Arya who is going to learn how to do glamors and who kept Dareon's boots.

Look out! You'll inspire one of the theorists here to do a whole big thing on boots, with seventeen 5000 word posts to support it.

[Clegane'sPup]

19 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Here's a quote from A Storm of Swords:

Cold fingers walked down Arya's neck.  Fear cuts deeper than swords, she reminded herself.  She stood and approached the fire wearily, light on the balls of her feet, poised to flee.  

The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes.  "I see you," she whispered.  "I see you, wolf child.  Blood child.  I thought it was the lord who smelled of death . . ."  She began to sob, her little body shaking.  "You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel.  I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours.  Begone from here, dark heart.  Begone!"

The old woman has seen plenty of bloodshed and grief in her time and yet she is repulsed by Arya.   There is no happy future for Arya.  She's too far gone.  

Here is where the different perspective comes in to play--- you know what opinions are like, right?

Arya was fearful of the dwarf woman with dim red eyes. I agree the dwarf woman experience grief. I do not agree the dwarf woman was repulsed by Arya as in  I think the dwarf woman felt Arya’s pain, grief and lonesomeness.

What happened at Summerhall? For me Summerhall is one of those vague non disclosed mystery Targ things having something to do with Rhaegar. (?)

[kissdbyfire]

30 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Look out! You'll inspire one of the theorists here to do a whole big thing on boots, with seventeen 5000 word posts to support it.

I've already done it yrs ago!