How far will Arya go to kill her enemies?

[Darth Sidious]

On 4/1/2018 at 10:31 PM, Damsel in Distress said:

Arya's humanity is gone.  

It's not that.  She's emotionally damaged and she has taken the path to violence.  She is more than willing to murder people.  She has a strong desire to avenge the Starks.  She has killed people.   She will kill more people.

[Darth Sidious]

Just now, Nevets said:

Yes I have.  What about it?

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She kills Raff, and only Raff, and does it quite quickly and painlessly. 

  Besides which, she hardly even thinks of Cersei in Braavos (one mention outside of her list, and that's in passing).  So, no, I still don't think she will kill innocents to get to Cersei, if she even bothers in the first place.

So you and I disagree.  It's probably not the first time.  

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, Nevets said:

So, no, I still don't think she will kill innocents to get to Cersei, if she even bothers in the first place.

Agree w/ all but especially this. I don't think she will [bother w/ crossing Cersei off her list].

[Darth Sidious]

3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Agree w/ all but especially this. I don't think she will [bother w/ crossing Cersei off her list].

Cersei is on that list.  Arya has shown no signs of letting go of that "to murder list".  I have to disagree with your opinion.  I think she will pursue Cersei.  I'm not saying she will get to kill Cersei.  Someone else may beat her to it, like the valonquar.  But Arya is not going to forgive Cersei and she will try to kill Cersei.  

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, Agent Orange said:

Cersei is on that list.  Arya has shown no signs of letting go of that "to murder list".  I have to disagree with your opinion.  I think she will pursue Cersei.  I'm not saying she will get to kill Cersei.  Someone else may beat her to it, like the valonquar.  But Arya is not going to forgive Cersei and she will try to kill Cersei.  

I know Cersei is on her list. I never said otherwise, did I? 

I just think that by the time Arya goes to Westeros, it will be because she learns of an "assassination attempt on the NW LC Jon Snow". Therefore, by the time she arrives her priorities will have changed. 

 

[Light a wight tonight]

1 hour ago, Agent Orange said:

Collateral damage is a bad thing but put Arya in a situation where there is no other way to isolate Cersei and she will not hesitate.   Have you read the Mercy chapters?  The spoilers?  

I read the Mercy chapter. No collateral damage. Her target was singled out and taken out. Surgically, after a fashion. Absolutely no bearing on whether or not she would kill a bunch of bystanders to get to Cersei.

[Nowy Tends]

2 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

Collateral damage is a bad thing but put Arya in a situation where there is no other way to isolate Cersei and she will not hesitate.   Have you read the Mercy chapters?  The spoilers?  

If you have found something in the Mercy chapter that could be related with potential collateral damage, please provide a quote.

Again, none of your assertions are supported by the text. Like when you list Sandor as one of the characters obsessed by revenge, while Sandor never talks about revenge…

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Isn't the whole point of being an "assassin" is so you can kill your target as quietly as possible without causing collateral damage, which would bring you unwanted attention?  

[Nevets]

11 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

So you and I disagree.  It's probably not the first time.  

Probably not, especially if you have made assertions inconsistent with the text.  And I have yet to see anything that indicates that she would kill innocents to get to anybody.  If you have seen something to indicate that she would, I am all ears. 

[Kandrax]

7 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

Like when you list Sandor as one of the characters obsessed by revenge, while Sandor never talks about revenge…

It's not like he didn't want revenge, but mark of kinslayer stood in his way.

[chrisdaw]

Not far, she has her list because she lost everything else. First she'll get back Sansa, then do Sansa's bidding rather than tending to her list. Then she'll get back Jon, and begrudgingly do as her lord orders rather tend her list.

[HoodedCrow]

I thought she would bump into LSH first, and her attitudes would change. However she still has her aggressive skills, people just overlook all the male killers in a vicious conflict, because, that’s different, I suppose.

Same with Daenerys, a 16 year old girl who marries a creep to attain peace, and puts much effort in leadership, is not as valiant or deserving, no matter what incredible deeds she does, compared to, let’s say, Robb, who fights a losing war of vengeance, and screws it up because of an understandably huge teenaged slip up in the love department. Strong women are usually judged very critically and men are often not. Especially harshly judged are women who like sex or who manage to trick obnoxious men. How many passes do people give King Robert or Stannis (not above killing innocents)Barristan Selmy, Ned, etc, for enormous failings?

[Darksnider05]

29 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

I thought she would bump into LSH first, and her attitudes would change. However she still has her aggressive skills, people just overlook all the male killers in a vicious conflict, because, that’s different, I suppose.

Same with Daenerys, a 16 year old girl who marries a creep to attain peace, and puts much effort in leadership, is not as valiant or deserving, no matter what incredible deeds she does, compared to, let’s say, Robb, who fights a losing war of vengeance, and screws it up because of an understandably huge teenaged slip up in the love department. Strong women are usually judged very critically and men are often not. Especially harshly judged are women who like sex or who manage to trick obnoxious men. How many passes do people give King Robert or Stannis (not above killing innocents)Barristan Selmy, Ned, etc, for enormous failings?

Arya get's these weird hate threads and they always tend to have very little to do with the text just feels before reals non stop.  That or really bad trolling.

[Sigella]

On 2018-04-06 at 0:50 AM, Agent Orange said:

It's not that.  She's emotionally damaged and she has taken the path to violence.  She is more than willing to murder people.  She has a strong desire to avenge the Starks.  She has killed people.   She will kill more people.

I agree with all this.

But to take your view I'd have to overlook the other things we also know about Arya: that she's not a psychopath and certainly not a sadist to mention the most flagrant examples. We also know she has strong, bordering on rigid, morals. 

 

I kind of get the feels for your point from a passage in The Ugly Little Girl chapter in DoD: Arya doesn't seem to mind killing the guard along with the insurance man because "he is slow and stupid".

Firstly it might have been a lie - the lying-game is creepily fluid thing for the FM.

Moreover, Arya has seen such wartime awfulness most soldiers don't even see. She spent a week frontseat watching the Tickler work his way through a village, constantly knowing she might be next. There is a great difference between saying something and doing it. Behaviorally its quite surprising how resilient she is and how much good she still is capable of. Traumatised kids can mirror what they've seen and I think this reasoning was an echo from the Riverlands more than a glimpse into her black heart.

Also it was said not as a vow or pledge, but as a hastily thrown out there suggestion as a quick sollution to the problem of getting to the insurance guy. She might have gone back on it after reconsidering if the Kindly Man hadn't shot it down.

[HoodedCrow]

Very well said Sigella.

Just for fun I will add the Arya rescue list.

Arya tried to rescue or did rescue:

Micah

Nymeria/and maybe LSH?

Syrio

Gendry

Weasel

Sandor

Rorge, Biter, Jaqen

Imprisoned Northerners

More to come, I’m sure, probably forgot a few

 

[Sigella]

8 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

Very well said Sigella.

Just for fun I will add the Arya rescue list.

Arya tried to rescue or did rescue:

Micah

Nymeria/and maybe LSH?

Syrio

Gendry

Weasel

Sandor

Rorge, Biter, Jaqen

Imprisoned Northerners

More to come, I’m sure, probably forgot a few

 

Thank you!

You should start a thread because I want to add a few to your list

 

[Therae]

1 hour ago, HoodedCrow said:

Very well said Sigella.

Just for fun I will add the Arya rescue list.

Arya tried to rescue or did rescue:

Micah

Nymeria/and maybe LSH?

Syrio

Gendry

Weasel

Sandor

Rorge, Biter, Jaqen

Imprisoned Northerners

More to come, I’m sure, probably forgot a few

 

Also Lady. She spoke up for Lady without hesitation.

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

On 4/6/2018 at 4:20 AM, Agent Orange said:

It's not that.  She's emotionally damaged and she has taken the path to violence.  She is more than willing to murder people.  She has a strong desire to avenge the Starks.  She has killed people.   She will kill more people.

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding Arya's character. She isn't "nuts" or emotionally unstable. She's a little girl who saw nearly all her family murdered. She is angry but she isn't psycho. Everyone on her death list are actual evil people. Also, she's not the one who's killing them, with the exception of Raff, who ends up in Braavos. However, everyone on her list seems to have horrible deaths in their futures. 

Yes, she will kill more people, given that she is an assassin and all. She could be the valonqar (little brother/sister; the term is Valyrian) who kills Cersei, but it's insane to suggest that she'll burn down a city to do it. Arya hasn't completely lost her empathy.

[Kandrax]

11 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Sandor

Wait, how did she rescue or tried to rescue him?

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

11 hours ago, Sigella said:

But to take your view I'd have to overlook the other things we also know about Arya: that she's not a psychopath and certainly not a sadist to mention the most flagrant examples. We also know she has strong, bordering on rigid, morals. 

 

I kind of get the feels for your point from a passage in The Ugly Little Girl chapter in DoD: Arya doesn't seem to mind killing the guard along with the insurance man because "he is slow and stupid".

Firstly it might have been a lie - the lying-game is creepily fluid thing for the FM.

Moreover, Arya has seen such wartime awfulness most soldiers don't even see. She spent a week frontseat watching the Tickler work his way through a village, constantly knowing she might be next. There is a great difference between saying something and doing it. Behaviorally its quite surprising how resilient she is and how much good she still is capable of. Traumatised kids can mirror what they've seen and I think this reasoning was an echo from the Riverlands more than a glimpse into her black heart.

Also it was said not as a vow or pledge, but as a hastily thrown out there suggestion as a quick sollution to the problem of getting to the insurance guy. She might have gone back on it after reconsidering if the Kindly Man hadn't shot it down.

I agree. Note that people she ends up killing are people who really deserve it. The insurance man is a con artist who's ripping off poor families. I guess we can say that people who come to the FM's temple are those who have no other choice. Naturally, these would be poor people who cannot take on richer or more powerful foes. 

Arya is traumatized and she is also angry. Even back in Winterfell she did have anger issues. Not like Joffery, but when there's an injustice, she really gets angry, which can make her lash out.