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How far will Arya go to kill her enemies?

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9 minutes ago, Nevets said:
51 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

only they'd rape her bloody before. 

I think Yoren was exaggerating somewhat, to keep her careful and discreet.  It is also worth noting that when it became apparent that she was a girl, she was traveling to Harrenhal with Clegane's men, a bunch of rapists if there was ever one, and nobody took any interest in her at all.

Yes, I also think Yoren was exaggerating, still, the threat was there all along. 

I also agree that Clegane and his men are the worst kind of scum there is. Still, not every rapist is a paedo? Arya is (was) at an age where only paedos will be into her sexually. Plus a pinch of plot armour, meaning, Martin didn't want the character to go through it. 

9 minutes ago, Nevets said:

She landed with the FM in Braavos because she had run out of options.  She had no money, and no place to go.  She has stayed because she needs a pack to belong to, and they have offered her one.  Plus, learning to kill people is of interest to her (although I have real doubts that she has learned, or will learn, anything actually useful in that department).

I think she has already learned a thing or two. And by the time we see her next, she may have learned a few more. 

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yes, I also think Yoren was exaggerating, still, the threat was there all along. 

I also agree that Clegane and his men are the worst kind of scum there is. Still, not every rapist is a paedo? Arya is (was) at an age where only paedos will be into her sexually. Plus a pinch of plot armour, meaning, Martin didn't want the character to go through it. 

I think she has already learned a thing or two. And by the time we see her next, she may have learned a few more. 

I don't know about that.  In the preview chapter

her killing of Raff didn't include any knowledge or skills she didn't have before she arrived in Braavos.  She basically slashed the guy's neck with a blade, which isn't all that different from the Harrenhal guard.

  If she used new skills, I didn't see it.  She's learned a bit about poisons, but even that has been haphazard and ad hoc.  Other than that, I can't say I'm all that impressed.

Agree with you that she was too young for Clegane's men.  But her biggest problem was that she had no means of support, and nobody willing to do so, after Sandor's (apparent) demise.

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5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I think she has already learned a thing or two. And by the time we see her next, she may have learned a few more. 

What she does in the Mercy chapter, without the victim notices it, requires a certain expertise and a safe hand…

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I don't know about that.  In the preview chapter

  Reveal hidden contents

her killing of Raff didn't include any knowledge or skills she didn't have before she arrived in Braavos.  She basically slashed the guy's neck with a blade, which isn't all that different from the Harrenhal guard.

 

I disagree. To begin with it requires knowledge in anatomy…

Edited by Nowy Tends

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

What she does in the Mercy chapter, without the victim notices it, requires a certain expertise and a safe hand…

It seems that...

Spoiler

In the Mercy chapter Arya’s mission was to cause a disruption for the envoy to Kings Landing, therefore Arya was on a mission and just had a list name of hers dropped in her lap (as other posters mentioned above), as Arya did not seek Raff out. It seems this is part of what she is learning, not just the physical killing, but the focus on the correct target, who was Raff in this case. 

I don’t have all the quotes at the moment, but the key that Arya has in the end could also be... key. :ph34r:

Spoiler

And I hate having to use the secret eye :angry2:

 

Edited by The Fattest Leech

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Spoiler

It was the Femoral artery that Arya opened up. It took not just a good knowledge of anatomy and a very precise cut, but excellent planning to get Raff running through the city, clambering up the stairs and sexually aroused. His pulse was then racing so he bled out quickly and relatively painlessly. Also suits the narrative she was looking to create - with Raff spotted running through the city with her, a messy crime scene and neither anywhere to be seen.

 

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24 minutes ago, Nevets said:

I don't know about that.  In the preview chapter

  Reveal hidden contents

her killing of Raff didn't include any knowledge or skills she didn't have before she arrived in Braavos.  She basically slashed the guy's neck with a blade, which isn't all that different from the Harrenhal guard.

  If she used new skills, I didn't see it.  She's learned a bit about poisons, but even that has been haphazard and ad hoc.  Other than that, I can't say I'm all that impressed.

She's learned tricks that may come in handy, and the KM said she'd learn about glamours and disguises and face-changing (which shoud be easier for a skinchanger than your average person). Also what Nowy said below...

24 minutes ago, Nevets said:

Agree with you that she was too young for Clegane's men.  But her biggest problem was that she had no means of support, and nobody willing to do so, after Sandor's (apparent) demise.

I agree, and also with what you said before about the HoBaW being her pack for the time being.

24 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

What she does in the Mercy chapter, without the victim notices it, requires a certain expertise and a safe hand…

 

18 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

I disagree. To begin with it requires knowledge in anatomy…

:agree:

7 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It seems that...

  Reveal hidden contents

In the Mercy chapter Arya’s mission was to cause a disruption for the envoy to Kings Landing, therefore Arya was on a mission and just had a list name of hers dropped in her lap (as other posters mentioned above), as Arya did not seek Raff out. It seems this is part of what she is learning, not just the physical killing, but the focus on the correct opportunities. 

I don’t have all the quotes at the moment, but the key that Arya has in the end could also be... key. :ph34r:

  Reveal hidden contents

And I hate having to use the secret eye :angry2:

 

1st secret eye: agree

2nd secret eye: WHAT. I love secret eye thingy because...

Spoiler

I love the suspense! :laugh:

 

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7 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:
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It was the Femoral artery that Arya opened up. It took not just a good knowledge of anatomy and a very precise cut, but excellent planning to get Raff running through the city, clambering up the stairs and sexually aroused. His pulse was then racing so he bled out quickly and relatively painlessly. Also suits the narrative she was looking to create - with Raff spotted running through the city with her, a messy crime scene and neither anywhere to be seen.

 

Yes. I believe Rachel McAdams does the same thing during a party in True Detective Season 2.

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By the way, if anyone needs a Mercy chapter re-read, here is a link to the archived version of the text from GRRM's website,

http://web.archive.org/web/20140403003340/http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

and here is a good reading of it by another narrator if you prefer to listen while you work... I mean, the narrator is no :bowdown:Roy Dotrice, but it is still a good read.

 

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4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

It seems that...

  Reveal hidden contents

In the Mercy chapter Arya’s mission was to cause a disruption for the envoy to Kings Landing, therefore Arya was on a mission and just had a list name of hers dropped in her lap (as other posters mentioned above), as Arya did not seek Raff out. It seems this is part of what she is learning, not just the physical killing, but the focus on the correct target, who was Raff in this case. 

I don’t have all the quotes at the moment, but the key that Arya has in the end could also be... key. :ph34r:

  Reveal hidden contents

And I hate having to use the secret eye :angry2:

 

And down the rabbit-hole we go:o.  As you might guess, I do not believe this theory in the slightest, but we are getting way OT.

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55 minutes ago, Nevets said:

And down the rabbit-hole we go:o.  As you might guess, I do not believe this theory in the slightest, but we are getting way OT.

Pffft! I'd take trying to actually figure Arya out, even if it turns out to be wrong, over generic Stark hate any day.

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14 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

The thread of being raped was there all along, from the moment she took to the road w/ Yoren. Remember what he told Arya? From memory, so paraphrasing, but he.told her to be discreet when peeing b/c "half the guys w/ them would sell her to the queen, and the other half would do the same only they'd rape her bloody before. 

Still, only Rorge threatened to rape her.

PS. You mean "threat"?

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Still, only Rorge threatened to rape her.

PS. You mean "threat"?

Yes, Rorge actually said it. But the threat was there all the time, even if not verbalised by other characters. 

And yes, threat not thread. A typo I was too lazy to fix! :P

Edited by kissdbyfire

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8 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

But the threat was there all the time, even if not verbalised by other characters. 

You are right about that. Brotherhood accused Mountain's men for raping six year olds.

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On 4/1/2018 at 8:44 AM, Nowy Tends said:

No, absolutely not. Obviously you don't understand the character. Arya has no desire to make collateral damages (unlike Cersei).

What do you think the old man was?  The old man was collateral damage.  Arya killed him so she can continue to learn how to kill her enemies.  Killing the old man was the equivalent of passing Exam 1 from the Faceless Men.  He had never done anything against Arya, never harmed the Starks.  For all we know, the old man never harmed anyone.  The fact that he was assassinated instead of arrested should tell you that he may be innocent of fraud.

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2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

 The fact that he was assassinated instead of arrested should tell you that he may be innocent of fraud.

This is the 2nd time this BS is brought in this thread, and I maintain that it's the stupidest thing one can say on this matter. The fact that the book says the opposite is just a detail, I guess you know better than the author himself…

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On 4/3/2018 at 0:20 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

Whatever it takes is the answer to the op's question.   Arya won't let the lives of the innocent prevent her from killing her family's enemies.   Somebody will hopefully stop/kill Arya before she murders more people.  

I have compassion for war veterans who don't commit murder after they become civilians.  You can have compassion but you can't accept the negative behavior.   

Arya is not the only person to suffer trauma.  You can't give her a break just because her family came out on the losing end.  Ned and Sansa were victims, but Catelyn, Jon, and Robb were participants who got what they deserved.  

Wow.... Why would Roose Bolton ruling the north after murdering his liege just bc Tywin said it’s cool count as “deserved”

Why would the Frey’s (who were forever jealous of the Tullys) murder of Catelyn and absolutely sickening inhumane “Tully-mock funeral” count as “Deserved”?

How about Jon? 

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On 4/25/2018 at 4:46 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

What do you think the old man was?  The old man was collateral damage.  Arya killed him so she can continue to learn how to kill her enemies.  Killing the old man was the equivalent of passing Exam 1 from the Faceless Men.  He had never done anything against Arya, never harmed the Starks.  For all we know, the old man never harmed anyone.  The fact that he was assassinated instead of arrested should tell you that he may be innocent of fraud.

Don't mean to nitpick (LOL JK), but if he had been arrested, he still may have been innocent of fraud. And if he had been convicted, he still might have been innocent.

Which means nothing. "A Song of Ice and Fire" really isn't a lawyer drama. It's not a police procedural. It's not a story about due process. Did you miss that? How?

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On 4/14/2018 at 3:56 PM, Agent Orange said:

Arya is insane and she is indeed fickle.  Jon too is fickle.  The way he dispensed justice with regards to Janos and Mance was inconsistent and an embarrassment to justice.  The murder of the insurance agent by Arya was not justice.  

Arya gave the insurance man the gift of death. In our 21st Century that might be murder but it would be judged differently in Braavos at that time, seeing that  the bravos are out every night fighting duels without worrying about legal repercussions. 

Now, look at this another way. Arya's observations would lead her to believe that killing is actually a normal activity. Micah is killed, Lady is killed, her father is publicly decapitated, the whole Stark household  in King's Landing, with the exceptions of herself and Sansa, are put to the sword by the Lannisters, On the way to the Wall her group is attacked by Amory Lorch and mostly killed, Lommy Greenhands is killed with a spear to the throat by Raff the Sweetling, the list goes on and on. Children imitate their elders and she's acting the way the people around her act.

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2 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Arya gave the insurance man the gift of death. In our 21st Century that might be murder but it would be judged differently in Braavos at that time, seeing that  the bravos are out every night fighting duels without worrying about legal repercussions. 

Now, look at this another way. Arya's observations would lead her to believe that killing is actually a normal activity. Micah is killed, Lady is killed, her father is publicly decapitated, the whole Stark household  in King's Landing, with the exceptions of herself and Sansa, are put to the sword by the Lannisters, On the way to the Wall her group is attacked by Amory Lorch and mostly killed, Lommy Greenhands is killed with a spear to the throat by Raff the Sweetling, the list goes on and on. Children imitate their elders and she's acting the way the people around her act.

None of that makes her normal even for the time she lives in.  

And that so-called gift was not wanted nor desired by the recipient.  Arya was wrong to kill that man.  Let me tell you something, Lighter o' Wights, an unwanted gift is a pair of polka dot socks from your daughter that you hate wearing to work but do it anyway.  What Arya gave that poor old man was way worse.

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