UK Politics - From Russia with Love

[Hereward]

I don't believe your statement included any qualifiers. 

[Werthead]

42 minutes ago, Hereward said:

I don't believe your statement included any qualifiers. 

I trusted to the intelligence of my fellow board members to understand context.

[Hereward]

Once you've worked through your customary question begging, hyperbole and extrapolation to large groups from outlier views, identifying what context you may or may not have been considering to make your point reasonable is just too much like hard work.

[mormont]

15 hours ago, mankytoes said:

Isn't it in their interest to not get the Assembly restarted if they want to dodge this, as only an active Assembly could change the law? Keep it shut down for a couple of months at least, when people will have moved on from this? 

Not giving this basic right has been one of the few issues the Catholics and Proddies have been able to agree on, anyway...

Please don't let's use sectarian language. And yes, 'Proddies' is sectarian language. 

[The BlackBear]

Do we have polls on the general views on choice/life in NI? It may seem archaic to me, but if the majority are opposed to a change in the law, I'd prefer we (speaking as a non Irelander) be very cautious about imposing big changes like that.

The DUP seem like lunatics to me, but someone keeps voting them in to power.

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, The BlackBear said:

Do we have polls on the general views on choice/life in NI? It may seem archaic to me, but if the majority are opposed to a change in the law, I'd prefer we (speaking as a non Irelander) be very cautious about imposing big changes like that.

The DUP seem like lunatics to me, but someone keeps voting them in to power.

Yes.

Support for abortion in Northern Ireland is very high in the case of foetal abnormalities, a threat to the life of the mother and in the case of mental health issues. It drops to about 40% for abortion in all circumstances, so a full liberalisation of the law would not be popular. But support for an easing of the law is massively overwhelming.

2 hours ago, Hereward said:

Once you've worked through your customary question begging, hyperbole and extrapolation to large groups from outlier views, identifying what context you may or may not have been considering to make your point reasonable is just too much like hard work.

Yes, I have noticed your lack of work in posting in the UK Politics Thread, on a very regular basis. I hold hopes for future improvement if you do put in the work. I believe in you, Hereward. You just have to believe in yourself.

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Do we have polls on the general views on choice/life in NI? It may seem archaic to me, but if the majority are opposed to a change in the law, I'd prefer we (speaking as a non Irelander) be very cautious about imposing big changes like that.

The DUP seem like lunatics to me, but someone keeps voting them in to power.

The Three Counties of Ulster in the Republic split 50/50 in favour of repealing the 8th Amendment. I expect the results would be similar in rural districts and market towns North of the Border, although more people would be in favour in the Greater Belfast area.

[SeanF]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:40 AM, Notone said:

I have been wondering, what are the chances that moderate Tories and centrist Labour MPs revolt (possibly with votes from the LibDems and maybe even the SNP) and elect someone from their ranks as PM. Likesay, Nicky Morgan, who is probably easier to sell to Tory rebells than somebody from Labour.

At some point somebody will have to say enough with that horrorshow.

The history of the SDP would make anyone very wary of trying that again.

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

The Three Counties of Ulster in the Republic split 50/50 in favour of repealing the 8th Amendment. I expect the results would be similar in rural districts and market towns North of the Border, although more people would be in favour in the Greater Belfast area.

The three counties in the ROI are Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan. Cavan and Monaghan have been combined into one constituency and they voted 55-45 in favour of repeal. Donegal was split into two constituencies a few years ago, Sligo-Leitrim and Donegal proper. Sligo-Leitrim broke for 60-40 in favour of reapeal. Donegal went 52-48 in favour of retaining, but the recombined county went 53 to 47 in favour of repeal.

It's not a landslide, but nonetheless a clear majority of RoI Ulster went for repeal as well, and the polling suggests that Northern Ireland would strongly back a liberalisation of the laws on medical and mental health grounds, but not for abortion-on-demand.

[mankytoes]

8 hours ago, mormont said:

Please don't let's use sectarian language. And yes, 'Proddies' is sectarian language. 

Sorry, I really hate sectarianism, I was raised proddy so I say it ironically, but obviously people on here don't know that so I won't in future. 

[Deedles]

Could we please stop referring to “abortion on demand”, as well, I can demand one all I want, but I’m not getting it unless I’m pregnant and don’t want to be. We don’t refer to angioplasties on demand, or laminectomies, or cholecystectomies.

 

Abortion may not be palatable to you, but it is a health care need and shouldn’t be trivialised by making it sound like a whiny, petulant demand. Language frames a debate and “on demand” originates with anti choice RS for a reason.

[Maltaran]

Couldn't have happened to a more deserving guy

Quote

Former English Defence League (EDL) leader Tommy Robinson has been jailed for potentially prejudicing a court case, it can be reported.

 

[mormont]

Just what he wanted, it seems to me. Now he's being touted as a martyr to the international alt-right, instead of the insignificant little street thug he really is.

[williamjm]

10 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Do we have polls on the general views on choice/life in NI? It may seem archaic to me, but if the majority are opposed to a change in the law, I'd prefer we (speaking as a non Irelander) be very cautious about imposing big changes like that.

There are definite advantages to the way it was done in Ireland because after the landslide victory the public's clear opinion on the matter makes it more difficult for opponents of abortion to try to interfere with the process of bringing in the new laws. In an ideal world I don't think a referendum should be necessary in Northern Ireland because there's no constitution to change and delivering the same health care as other parts of the UK isn't something that should be dependent on majority approval, but since this isn't an ideal world having a referendum vote in favour might be the best way to do it since it wouldn't then looking like an outside imposition and it would make it harder for the local politicians to block the new law.

Sadly, I doubt there's any prospect of anything happening while the DUP's votes are propping up the UK Government.

[Werthead]

2 hours ago, Deedles said:

Could we please stop referring to “abortion on demand”, as well, I can demand one all I want, but I’m not getting it unless I’m pregnant and don’t want to be. We don’t refer to angioplasties on demand, or laminectomies, or cholecystectomies.

Abortion may not be palatable to you, but it is a health care need and shouldn’t be trivialised by making it sound like a whiny, petulant demand. Language frames a debate and “on demand” originates with anti choice RS for a reason.

Apologies, I was going with the language used in the survey and didn't think about it.

[Derfel Cadarn]

26 minutes ago, williamjm said:

 

Sadly, I doubt there's any prospect of anything happening while the DUP's votes are propping up the UK Government.

Yeah. The DUP could propose burning catholics, and Theresa May would declare it 'a matter for NI'.

[mankytoes]

3 hours ago, Deedles said:

Could we please stop referring to “abortion on demand”, as well, I can demand one all I want, but I’m not getting it unless I’m pregnant and don’t want to be. We don’t refer to angioplasties on demand, or laminectomies, or cholecystectomies.

Abortion may not be palatable to you, but it is a health care need and shouldn’t be trivialised by making it sound like a whiny, petulant demand. Language frames a debate and “on demand” originates with anti choice RS for a reason.

Whatever the semantics, it's worth noting we don't have "abortion on demand" in the UK. There needs to be a mitigating factor, like risk to the mother's health. Of course, in practise it is unlikely to be a hurdle, but it might be a different situation in Ireland if they adopt the same law. 

[SeanF]

15 hours ago, mormont said:

Just what he wanted, it seems to me. Now he's being touted as a martyr to the international alt-right, instead of the insignificant little street thug he really is.

It is what he wanted, but it's right he be jailed, as he was trying to jeapordise the trial, and had already been warned that he would go to jail if he tried it again.

 

14 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Yeah. The DUP could propose burning catholics, and Theresa May would declare it 'a matter for NI'.

Cold weather is God's way of telling us to burn them.

[mormont]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

It is what he wanted, but it's right he be jailed, as he was trying to jeapordise the trial, and had already been warned that he would go to jail if he tried it again.

Oh, absolutely. There's no way the judge could not jail him. And at least he won't be attending any marches for a while. 

I did enjoy this from the Secret Barrister's blog post on the situation:

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2018/05/25/what-has-happened-to-poor-tommy-robinson/

Quote

There are two types of people currently propagating the Free Tommy Robinson myths: far-right sympathisers deliberately sowing discord and falsehoods, whose concern for due process is a cipher for hero-worship of a racist cult leader; and good people confused and worried about what they’ve heard about the “threat to free speech” posed by the overbearing English and Welsh justice system. [...] The second group will, I hope, realise from this explanation that the toga party they have wandered into is in fact a Klan meeting.

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

Cold weather is God's way of telling us to burn them.

ANd the current heat wave is his way of telling us to ice them?

Having done the silly bit.

19 hours ago, mormont said:

Just what he wanted, it seems to me. Now he's being touted as a martyr to the international alt-right, instead of the insignificant little street thug he really is.

Can we please stop using the term alt-right. It's Neo-Nazis or Nazis. A pig's a pig's a pig, no matter the amount of lipstick attached to it. And I find it somewhat disturbing that people are willing to play along their rebranding game.