US Politics: Free Trade, Freer Trade, and Nuclear War

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I just came home from a walk (read: catching Pokémon ) and turned on CNBC. 686! Since you posted!

I think this is called clear the decks for the weekend. God knows what else he will say!

Down 737 now.

[Kalbear]

52 minutes ago, Shryke said:

Why shouldn't it be that weird? Say what you want about Clinton, he was at least competent and at the time it was basically viewed as a matter of infidelity. Trump failings are ridiculously more and ridiculously worse. There is a massive difference in scale here, even if it's roughly the same phenomenon. It's the difference between a cut and a gaping chest wound the size of a watermelon.

What this actually reveals, the thing that is somewhat unexpected, is that for the Republican party there is no limit. There is no failing that is too great.

Because for the most part conservatives - especially the ones that would most likely loudly tut tut about things like extramarital affairs - are getting exactly the policy that they want. His failings are horrible for many people, but not for them. They love naming Jerusalem as the capital, because hastening the massive middle east conflict is a good thing. They love being hard on Iran for the same reason. They love the stance on abortion rights. They love the stance on immigration (but not, oddly enough, on refugees). 

Pretty much anything you name which is a failing they just don't care that much about in general. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

39 minutes ago, Week said:

Hey man, Trump's name is on a book that somebody else wrote -- the ART of the DEAL. Does having your name on someone else's work not mean anything anymore??

Trump is an inverse Keyser Soze -- The greatest trick that Trump ever pulled was convincing the world that he matters.

Omg! How did I never see it before. The  ghost writer was trying to warn us. When you rearrange the letters, it becomes “Lead Rat.” The book is really called The Lead of the Rat. Or maybe what the author meant was “A Led Rat.” He knew 30 years ago that a foreign strongman world leader would own Trump one day and use him as a puppet to defeat the US from within.

Mind = blown!

[James Arryn]

17 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Omg! How did I never see it before. The  ghost writer was trying to warn us. When you rearrange the letters, it becomes “Lead Rat.” The book is really called The Lead of the Rat. Or maybe what the author meant was “A Led Rat.” He knew 30 years ago that a foreign strongman world leader would own Trump one day and use him as a puppet to defeat the US from within.

Mind = blown!

Altered hot fat. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

58 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I just came home from a walk (read: catching Pokémon ) and turned on CNBC. 686! Since you posted!

I think this is called clear the decks for the weekend. God knows what else he will say!

At this point I’m just assuming that you’re always on the hunt so long as you’re not at work or home. Them there Pokémon are addictive, hence why I decided not to try it.

[Shryke]

17 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Because for the most part conservatives - especially the ones that would most likely loudly tut tut about things like extramarital affairs - are getting exactly the policy that they want. His failings are horrible for many people, but not for them. They love naming Jerusalem as the capital, because hastening the massive middle east conflict is a good thing. They love being hard on Iran for the same reason. They love the stance on abortion rights. They love the stance on immigration (but not, oddly enough, on refugees). 

Pretty much anything you name which is a failing they just don't care that much about in general. 

Yes. Yes that is exactly the point. Except those aren't the thing you'd list as his worst qualities. Think instead his stupidity, his horrible racism the fact that he's a self-admitted sexual predator, his massive ignorance, his endless corruption, etc, etc, etc. It's Trump. You don't have to look far. And many of these things are stuff they claim to dislike or often actually dislike. There's prominant conservatives railing against him in various ways all the time before they bow their heads and fall back in line.

And yeah, they are willing to excuse all these things to keep power. And that's the entire point. There is no bar. No limit. There is nothing that is unacceptable to the american right wing if it means they get to maintain power in the government. That is neither normal nor unnotable. It's monstrous and incredibly fucking dangerous.

[James Arryn]

So, yeah, South Carolina Republicans have introduced a bill to explore secession from the United States over gun rights. Not joking. 

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/382003-south-carolina-house-republicans-introduce-bill-to-consider-secession

I am pretty certain that in ways not immediately apparent, this will essentially reconfirm the extremism of the gun-grabbing liberals.

[Fragile Bird]

Ok, I think the market is really trying to get the Dow up over 24,000 before the close. good for psychology.

[TheKitttenGuard]

19 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

So, yeah, South Carolina Republicans have introduced a bill to explore secession from the United States over gun rights. Not joking. 

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/382003-south-carolina-house-republicans-introduce-bill-to-consider-secession

I am pretty certain that in ways not immediately apparent, this will essentially reconfirm the extremism of the gun-grabbing liberals.

Old habits really do Die Hard.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

39 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Altered hot fat. 

You’re short one t, but if you take The Art of the Deal and rearrange the letters it becomes He Altered Hot Fat. You can also use Loathe The Dafter, Loathe The Farted and Alt Red Hat Foe.

[Which Tyler]

5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Nope. Actual f'ing president. Here’s some more pain for your Eurocommie mind!:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/trump-tosses-out-the-script-in-rant-on-immigration-and-voter-fraud.html

Again, I'm going with satire; it's from CNBC after all; which in British language means Children's NBC, and where it would be a life lesson that acting that way make you look like an idiot, so please don't.

[Week]

31 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

So, yeah, South Carolina Republicans have introduced a bill to explore secession from the United States over gun rights. Not joking. 

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/382003-south-carolina-house-republicans-introduce-bill-to-consider-secession

I am pretty certain that in ways not immediately apparent, this will essentially reconfirm the extremism of the gun-grabbing liberals.

Byeee! Enjoy your guns with the 43rd income per capita and median household income. We'll take your refugees (sans firearms) and those remaining SC can keep its guns.

[Kalbear]

41 minutes ago, Shryke said:

Yes. Yes that is exactly the point. Except those aren't the thing you'd list as his worst qualities. Think instead his stupidity, his horrible racism the fact that he's a self-admitted sexual predator, his massive ignorance, his endless corruption, etc, etc, etc. It's Trump. You don't have to look far. And many of these things are stuff they claim to dislike or often actually dislike. There's prominant conservatives railing against him in various ways all the time before they bow their heads and fall back in line.

Sure, they don't like him, but he's absurdly better than the alternative and he's actually doing things they want. Ultimately they don't care if their guy is corrupt. They don't care if their guy is stupid. They don't care if their guy is a sexual predator (and point of fact this is likely a positive for some of them who see nothing wrong with that behavior to begin with). These things would matter if they're talking friends, but as long as he keeps delivering on the things they want it's just not that big a deal. 

41 minutes ago, Shryke said:

And yeah, they are willing to excuse all these things to keep power. And that's the entire point. There is no bar. No limit. There is nothing that is unacceptable to the american right wing if it means they get to maintain power in the government. That is neither normal nor unnotable. It's monstrous and incredibly fucking dangerous.

I think this is not entirely correct; the more accurate statement is that there is nothing that is unacceptable to them on a personal basis if they are getting things done politically. Which has always been the GOP position - that his tweets suck, his attitude sucks, etc, and they get in the way of getting more things done, but otherwise yay!

Note that if he came out as gay, or transgender, or converted to Islam, this would be sorely tested. 

This really shouldn't be that irrational as a concept, depending on what you care about more. They don't care about extramarital affairs, and decades of GOP officials and evangelical officials should point that out nicely. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

20 hours ago, LongRider said:

I've seen clips of this, with a creepy bespectacled bunny on one side, and very stern and frowny wife on the other, it was a hoot. 

 

It's almost as if Melania knew, that Stormy Daniels was inside that bunny costume.

[Fez]

48 minutes ago, Shryke said:

And yeah, they are willing to excuse all these things to keep power. And that's the entire point. There is no bar. No limit. There is nothing that is unacceptable to the american right wing if it means they get to maintain power in the government. That is neither normal nor unnotable. It's monstrous and incredibly fucking dangerous.

Not entirely. There are a number of things that would be unacceptable, its just that we don't know for sure if there is any undermining of democracy that would be a point too far for them. I tend to think there is, it's just that its a point much further away than the rest of us would like.

Remember, the one time it seemed like the administration was maybe gearing up to do something election-related beyond what Republicans usually do, when Kobach's voter fraud commission asked states to turn over their voter rolls, there was outright refusal and denouncements across the board from Republican officials. 

[James Arryn]

30 minutes ago, Fez said:

Not entirely. There are a number of things that would be unacceptable, its just that we don't know for sure if there is any undermining of democracy that would be a point too far for them. I tend to think there is, it's just that its a point much further away than the rest of us would like.

Remember, the one time it seemed like the administration was maybe gearing up to do something election-related beyond what Republicans usually do, when Kobach's voter fraud commission asked states to turn over their voter rolls, there was outright refusal and denouncements across the board from Republican officials. 

We’ve also seen some authority drift, though. Ie, we’ve seen times where the authorities and their constituents have disagreed with regards to whether to/how much to support Trump’s stance on a given issue, and we have also seen that to at times lead to significant change in what otherwise seemed to be broad resistance from officials to the latest Trump shocker. 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 hour ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Old habits really do Die Hard.

South Carolina hasn't been sure about this whole "Union" thing for at least 200 years.  They are not about to start being comfortable now.  It just wouldn't be "them."

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Sure, they don't like him, but he's absurdly better than the alternative and he's actually doing things they want. Ultimately they don't care if their guy is corrupt. They don't care if their guy is stupid. They don't care if their guy is a sexual predator (and point of fact this is likely a positive for some of them who see nothing wrong with that behavior to begin with). These things would matter if they're talking friends, but as long as he keeps delivering on the things they want it's just not that big a deal. 

I think this is not entirely correct; the more accurate statement is that there is nothing that is unacceptable to them on a personal basis if they are getting things done politically. Which has always been the GOP position - that his tweets suck, his attitude sucks, etc, and they get in the way of getting more things done, but otherwise yay!

Note that if he came out as gay, or transgender, or converted to Islam, this would be sorely tested. 

This really shouldn't be that irrational as a concept, depending on what you care about more. They don't care about extramarital affairs, and decades of GOP officials and evangelical officials should point that out nicely. 

This point was made up thread but that is true on both sides of the aisle.  We excuse behavior of people in our in-group that we would not of people who are outside of it.  Trump is an extreme example of this because his behavior is so extreme.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Well one has to go sooner or later:

Quote

John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, told President Trump last week that Scott Pruitt, his embattled administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, needed to go, according to two officials briefed about the conversation, following damaging allegations of ethical infractions and spending irregularities by the E.P.A. chief.

But Mr. Trump, who is personally fond of Mr. Pruitt and sees him as a crucial ally in his effort to roll back environmental protections, has resisted firing him, disregarding warnings that the drumbeat of negative headlines has grown unsustainable, and that more embarrassing revelations could surface.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/06/us/politics/trump-kelly-pruitt-fired.html

I also read an article at lunch, which unfortunately I can't find at the moment, that detailed Kelly's falling out of favor inside the WH. For example, Kelly had always been with Trump when he spoke to other world leaders, but he wasn't with Trump when he spoke to Putin. Kelly also told Trump specifically not to hire Bolton, but he did it anyways. He's also losing his ability to be Trump's gatekeeper. The article then went on to outline how Trump is sick and tired of being told "no" and is now hell bent on doing things his way (so yes, it can get worse. Much, much worse). If Pruitt is allowed to stay, don't be shocked if Kelly resigns. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

This point was made up thread but that is true on both sides of the aisle.  We excuse behavior of people in our in-group that we would not of people who are outside of it.  Trump is an extreme example of this because his behavior is so extreme.  

While this is certainly true, I do find Republicans to be more egregious about it even prior to Trump. The example I brought up before was comparing Gov. Spitzer and Sen. Vitter. They were effectively guilty of the same behavior, and yet Democrats ran Spitzer out of office while Republicans defended Vitter, reelected him and then nearly made him governor of Louisiana. Now, obviously people can point to the way Democrats rallied around Bill Clinton, and they wouldn't be wrong, but many Democrats have since come forward and said it was a mistake not to force him to resign. Do you think Republicans will say the same thing about Trump in 15 years? 

[kuenjato]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

While this is certainly true, I do find Republicans to be more egregious about it even prior to Trump. The example I brought up before was comparing Gov. Spitzer and Sen. Vitter. They were effectively guilty of the same behavior, and yet Democrats ran Spitzer out of office while Republicans defended Vitter, reelected him and then nearly made him governor of Louisiana. Now, obviously people can point to the way Democrats rallied around Bill Clinton, and they wouldn't be wrong, but many Democrats have since come forward and said it was a mistake not to force him to resign. Do you think Republicans will say the same thing about Trump in 15 years? 

Only if they lose power because of him. They will disavow him like they did Nixon, then ultraconservatives will eventually paint him in rosy lights a la Coulter et al's attempt to rehabilitate Commie-fightin' McCarthy