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The Fattest Leech

Re-read: Wildings are the Others

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20 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I agree that the rustle of leaves, the icy rush of the stream, and the wind all could be interpreted as the True Tongue, but I currently don't believe the Children of the Forest are part of this new awakening of white walkers and wights. The Children helped defeat the Others and warded their magic into the Wall. I understand that many readers suspect Bran is behind the return of the Others, but I think it's due to the removal of the wards that has allowed magic to return. Somehow this warding has been removed, magic was released, and I suspect Euron had something to do with that, because Damphair has a bad memory of a squeaky, iron hinge opening. IMO Euron is Bloodraven's (and now Bran's) opposing force, and that is why we see parallels. There could be another greenseer under Whitetree allied with the wildlings, but since Bloodraven sits underground and Euron walks the earth, I for one don't really expect another greenseer underground other than Bran. Euron is the crow's eye seeing all from high above, and the gods of water and wind are behind his power - and since water and wind are his gods, perhaps these noises are coming from powers connected to him?

I have a different hypothesis about the Others: the weirwoods/CoTF messed up the seasons and triggered the Long Night; the plan backfired as the resource wars of First Men also hit them. They created the WW and raised wights to survive; after years of struggle they wanted peace and establish an alliance with the Last Hero. The Last Hero and his people got peace and access to the CoTF caves until the end of the Long Night; the CoTF got a Wall made of blood sacrifices to replace the lands lost after the Pact of the Isles of Faces was broken. The legend of the evil Others was created to hide the actions of the weirwoods/CoTF and to reduce the number of men wanting to live north of the Wall.

Back in the present, someone or something reactivated the forces behind the Long Night and the alliance of weirwoods/CoTF and some group of First Men is needed once more to ensure survival.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Tucu said:

I have a different hypothesis about the Others: the weirwoods/CoTF messed up the seasons and triggered the Long Night; the plan backfired as the resource wars of First Men also hit them. They created the WW and raised wights to survive; after years of struggle they wanted peace and establish an alliance with the Last Hero. The Last Hero and his people got peace and access to the CoTF caves until the end of the Long Night; the CoTF got a Wall made of blood sacrifices to replace the lands lost after the Pact of the Isles of Faces was broken. The legend of the evil Others was created to hide the actions of the weirwoods/CoTF and to reduce the number of men wanting to live north of the Wall.

Back in the present, someone or something reactivated the forces behind the Long Night and the alliance of weirwoods/CoTF and some group of First Men is needed once more to ensure survival.

Well if Maester Luwin told it true the Pact held through the Long Night and didn't end until after the Andals came:

  “The Pact began four thousand years of friendship between men and children. In time, the First Men even put aside the gods they had brought with them, and took up the worship of the secret gods of the wood. The signing of the Pact ended the Dawn Age, and began the Age of Heroes.”

  Bran’s fist curled around the shiny black arrowhead. “But the children of the forest are all gone now, you said.”

  “Here, they are,” said Osha, as she bit off the end of the last bandage with her teeth. “North of the Wall, things are different. That’s where the children went, and the giants, and the other old races.”

  Maester Luwin sighed. “Woman, by rights you ought to be dead or in chains. The Starks have treated you more gently than you deserve. It is unkind to repay them for their kindness by filling the boys’ heads with folly.”

  “Tell me where they went,” Bran said. “I want to know.”

  “Me too,” Rickon echoed.

  “Oh, very well,” Luwin muttered. “So long as the kingdoms of the First Men held sway, the Pact endured, all through the Age of Heroes and the Long Night and the birth of the Seven Kingdoms, yet finally there came a time, many centuries later, when other peoples crossed the narrow sea. 

  “The Andals were the first, a race of tall, fair-haired warriors who came with steel and fire and the seven-pointed star of the new gods painted on their chests. The wars lasted hundreds of years, but in the end the six southron kingdoms all fell before them. Only here, where the King in the North threw back every army that tried to cross the Neck, did the rule of the First Men endure. The Andals burnt out the weirwood groves, hacked down the faces, slaughtered the children where they found them, and everywhere proclaimed the triumph of the Seven over the old gods. So the children fled north—”

 

Maester Luwin didn't get to finish, because this is where a raven brought news of Ned's death, but I noticed Luwin didn't say the Children fled north of the Wall - just "north", so it is plausible that they only moved north of the Neck after the Andals came, and didn't move beyond the Wall until Harren the Black built Harrenhal. I am going to insert my belief that the Pact was officially broken when the north didn't protect them from Harren, and the Children had to resort to fire magic by summoning the Targaryens.

 

Edited by Feather Crystal

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24 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Well if Maester Luwin told it true the Pact held through the Long Night and didn't end until after the Andals came:

  “The Pact began four thousand years of friendship between men and children. In time, the First Men even put aside the gods they had brought with them, and took up the worship of the secret gods of the wood. The signing of the Pact ended the Dawn Age, and began the Age of Heroes.”

  Bran’s fist curled around the shiny black arrowhead. “But the children of the forest are all gone now, you said.”

  “Here, they are,” said Osha, as she bit off the end of the last bandage with her teeth. “North of the Wall, things are different. That’s where the children went, and the giants, and the other old races.”

  Maester Luwin sighed. “Woman, by rights you ought to be dead or in chains. The Starks have treated you more gently than you deserve. It is unkind to repay them for their kindness by filling the boys’ heads with folly.”

  “Tell me where they went,” Bran said. “I want to know.”

  “Me too,” Rickon echoed.

  “Oh, very well,” Luwin muttered. “So long as the kingdoms of the First Men held sway, the Pact endured, all through the Age of Heroes and the Long Night and the birth of the Seven Kingdoms, yet finally there came a time, many centuries later, when other peoples crossed the narrow sea. 

  “The Andals were the first, a race of tall, fair-haired warriors who came with steel and fire and the seven-pointed star of the new gods painted on their chests. The wars lasted hundreds of years, but in the end the six southron kingdoms all fell before them. Only here, where the King in the North threw back every army that tried to cross the Neck, did the rule of the First Men endure. The Andals burnt out the weirwood groves, hacked down the faces, slaughtered the children where they found them, and everywhere proclaimed the triumph of the Seven over the old gods. So the children fled north—”

 

Maester Luwin didn't get to finish, because this is where a raven brought news of Ned's death, but I noticed Luwin didn't say the Children fled north of the Wall - just "north", so it is plausible that they only moved north of the Neck after the Andals came, and didn't move beyond the Wall until Harren the Black built Harrenhal. I am going to insert my belief that the Pact was officially broken when the north didn't protect them from Harren, and the Children had to resort to fire magic by summoning the Targaryens.

 

The Pact lasting for thousands of years always sounded weird to me. We know of only one battle between the Andals and the CoTF: the one in High Heart. It is also difficult to explain the absense of CoTF in the North given that was free from Andal invasions. I take that as another one of the lies of the ancients.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Tucu said:

The Pact lasting for thousands of years always sounded weird to me. We know of only one battle between the Andals and the CoTF: the one in High Heart. It is also difficult to explain the absense of CoTF in the North given that was free from Andal invasions. I take that as another one of the lies of the ancients.

This is why I believe the Children remained in the Riverlands  north of the Neck until Harren the Black cut down “forests of weirwoods” to build Harrenhal, and why I suspect the Pact was considered broke right before the dragons came. If there were still forests of weirwoods until Harren cut them down, then the Children still had places to live.

 

Edited: I should revise my statement that I believe the Children remained in the Riverlands until Harren the Black drove them out, and then they fled north of the Neck.

Edited by Feather Crystal

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21 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

This is why I believe the Children remained in the Riverlands north of the Neck

Do you mean in the Riverlands south of the Neck? 

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40 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Do you mean in the Riverlands south of the Neck? 

Yes, you are right. How sloppy of me. I was imagining the Trident as being the dividing line running parallel within the Neck, but after reviewing the map it more or less runs at an angle through and below the Neck. I should revise my statement that I believe the Children remained in the Riverlands until Harren the Black drove them out, and then they fled north of the Neck.

I was actually doing additional work on the theory of this OP today, and part of what I was working on includes my belief that the Starks may have taken Winterfell by conquest from another tribe of First Men closer to the time when the Andals migrated to Westeros and brought iron. The theory is based on the symbolic nature of the King in the North's crown, which consists of a bronze circlet surrounded by nine iron swords which hints that the iron defeated and wards the bronze. If true it could explain why the Children didn't settle happily in the north protected by Starks, but rather found their refuge north of the Wall.

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