Arya the Good

[HoodedCrow]

Arya rescues, helps, feeds and loves other people. Her life includes many acts of kindness and she also values help and kindness from other people. Let’s balance the darkness with some light and show that she is no saint, but not As black as she is sometimes painted. We can discuss her humanity, good or nuanced qualities and make lists. I think her arc will be about uniting yin and yang and tell a story about resolving aggression, lies, vengeance, and love. Mercy is something we can give to this character or not. Have at!

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

Arya the nurturing is really not Arya. She's sort of a fighter/survivor character. Her arc will probably involve the enmity between the FM and the old Valyrians, possibly hinting towards the central mystery of the story. She might have very tough decisions to make in the future, especially if FM realize that Jon is Rhaegar's son and send her to kill him. In any case, her arc is going to be very important to the story. 

[Damon_Tor]

7 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Arya rescues, helps, feeds and loves other people. Her life includes many acts of kindness and she also values help and kindness from other people. Let’s balance the darkness with some light and show that she is no saint, but not As black as she is sometimes painted. We can discuss her humanity, good or nuanced qualities and make lists. I think her arc will be about uniting yin and yang and tell a story about resolving aggression, lies, vengeance, and love. Mercy is something we can give to this character or not. Have at!

Well I think it will redeem her some if it turns out she's being trained by the FM because they know they'll need to kill Bran. Whatever it is Arya is becoming, Bran is becoming something far, far worse.

[Nowy Tends]

1 hour ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

especially if FM realize that Jon is Rhaegar's son and send her to kill him.

I can't see this happening: we know that FM assassins don't pick on people they know personaly. Arya will never be sent to kill a member of her family, period.

[Rufus Snow]

14 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said:

I can't see this happening: we know that FM assassins don't pick on people they know personaly. Arya will never be sent to kill a member of her family, period.

Spot on -- 'I know this man'. Anyway, we don't know her future storyline with the FM (and if there's anything in Winds spoliers, I don't want to know until it's published...) so they could part company before that even crops up.

I think in the end, Arya will stick by her family. I see her whole arc as disproving Ned's warning that the lone wolf can't survive - she has been ripped out of her proper place, yet she adapts and survives in conditions that would grind most people down.

I think it's more likely the FM would send someone else after Jon (if they do at all, which I doubt....) and IF it does happen, I expect it will be 'Jaqen', and Arya will kill him to save Jon.... there's a lot of IFs in there but it would close the cycle for Arya.

[Big P]

Arya the Good?

You mean Arya the Insane.  She murders Daeron, an old man at the bar, and Raf.  None of it can be justified by self-defense.  It's her messed up concept of revenge.  

[Nowy Tends]

49 minutes ago, Bwana said:

Arya the Good?

You mean Arya the Insane.  She murders Daeron, an old man at the bar, and Raf.  None of it can be justified by self-defense.  It's her messed up concept of revenge.  

Bullshit.

Arya sees Daeron as a bad person, and a deserter whom her father would behead in the minute. Raff is a sadistic scum, killing him is a measure of public health; good riddance.

[HoodedCrow]

Daeron was in the process of abandoning Sam, Gilly, baby Mance, and Aemon. They were starving. Arya has some good instincts. She offers oysters to Sam and sees Daeron as a deserter, someone weakening the NW commanded by her favorite brother, someone who has chosen not to protect her land and her family.

is this behavior rigid, over disciplined and violent? Ned did the same to a pitiable man, but Ned is still the father she loved. Is she taking out justifiable rage on a projected target, only the Seven can tell us, or the old Gods or the God of light.

[John Suburbs]

John Gotti did nice things for people too -- gave to charities, funded hospitals, spread wealth to poor neighborhoods -- but he was still a murderer.

I think most people, in-story and in the real world, would look at someone committing vigilante-style revenge killings and conclude they were a criminal, despite whatever acts of kindness they would also perform.

[Kandrax]

10 hours ago, Bwana said:

Raf

One of three confirmed child molesters.

[HoodedCrow]

So you prefer state ordered Wars, and executions, huh. I think we are meant to look at the whole picture here. How is Arya less honorable than any other character. And as far as people calling her insane, I’m not quite sure what the standard is, other than a gut definition. She seems to use the skills and ideals that she has learned from the likes of Ned and Syrio. Arya would be dead without violent skills, but you would rather she sat down to die?

The same people who don’t approve of Arya, just eat it up when their favorite murderer uses a special sword.

Yes we could have a list of Arya’s rescues. It would include attempts to save Nymeria, Lady, Gendry, the Hound and I haven’t read the earlier books recently enough to count. I wonder if she is close to the same count between rescues and deaths.

This world is intentionally chaotic right now. The priests torture the women, the priestesses burn people alive, but you fear for the torturers who have gotten away with it. The Faceless Men is a cult that was Arya’s last hope for survival, let’s see what she does with her training. 

[Rufus Snow]

10 hours ago, Bwana said:

Arya the Good?

You mean Arya the Insane.  She murders Daeron, an old man at the bar, and Raf.  None of it can be justified by self-defense.  It's her messed up concept of revenge.  

Like we're supposed to take seriously someone who calls themself 'Bwana'? Most forums, you'd be banned just for your assumed name. By the laws of Westeros, Dareon's life is forfeit - he's a NW deserter; Raff - revenge, yeah, but messed up? No, he earned his death.

By the lights of most 9 year-olds I've met, Arya has a far superior sense of self and justice - kids that age are generally more selfish, cruel, and capricious than she is, without the excuse of all the traumas Arya has suffered in her short life. As for the old man, that is an FM-approved hit - Arya's choice does not come into it any more than it would for any other FM. That's on their account, not hers. But even so, someone 'prayed' for his death - he's probably caused more suffering than Arya will in her whole life.

[Nowy Tends]

19 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

Like we're supposed to take seriously someone who calls themself 'Bwana'? Most forums, you'd be banned just for your assumed name.

Agreed. This cretin is a troll, we shouldn't even read his shit.

[Nowy Tends]

49 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

Like we're supposed to take seriously someone who calls themself 'Bwana'?

"Call me Bwana is a 1963 British "comic" movie.

[Kandrax]

7 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

kids that age are generally more selfish, cruel, and capricious than she is,

I aggre with everything you said, expect this.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

20 hours ago, Bwana said:

You mean Arya the Insane.  She murders Daeron, an old man at the bar, and Raf.

If you mean we're expected to bemoan the death of Raff, then you have truly lost the plot.

I see Arya as a young girl who has been screwed up by some seriously terrible experiences. Any "bad" things she does are a direct result of her having to learn to survive in an unbelievably brutal environment. She's a victim. She's a product of evil, not evil herself. 

[zandru]

On 4/8/2018 at 6:00 AM, Rufus Snow said:

I think in the end, Arya will stick by her family. I see her whole arc as disproving Ned's warning that the lone wolf can't survive - she has been ripped out of her proper place, yet she adapts and survives in conditions that would grind most people down.

Arya has rarely acted as the "lone wolf", though. Like Nymeria, Arya has constantly gathered others into impromptu "packs" and has felt close to, and responsible for, all her pack members. Why didn't she run away from Sandor Clegane earlier? He no longer cared, as far as she could tell. She believed she'd be okay on her own. But down deep, he was pack - a dog with a wolf.

Arya continued to integrate with "packs" in Essos. She made many friends on the wharfs. In no way is Arya some kind of psycho killer wacko, or in the parlance of Westeros, "mad". Her instincts for justice and how she acts on them seem to distress some people. I'm one who disagrees. You have only to read her concerns about how her family would probably disown her, how her mother would be disappointed in her, to realize that she's fully aware she's done questionable, maybe unforgiveable things. Everything from murder to messy hair and dirty fingernails.

[Apoplexy]

On 4/7/2018 at 10:06 PM, HoodedCrow said:

Arya rescues, helps, feeds and loves other people. Her life includes many acts of kindness and she also values help and kindness from other people. Let’s balance the darkness with some light and show that she is no saint, but not As black as she is sometimes painted. We can discuss her humanity, good or nuanced qualities and make lists. I think her arc will be about uniting yin and yang and tell a story about resolving aggression, lies, vengeance, and love. Mercy is something we can give to this character or not. Have at!

Everyone that Arya has killed, she has had a reason for it. And while some may not agree with her rationale, she hasn't killed just to be cruel or vindictive. I don't see that she has done anything that most other main characters haven't. If she needs redemption, then so does everyone else.

[HoodedCrow]

It is interesting how Arya has had to have had dire consequences to learn how to lie and she is now better at reading other people’s lies. She says she is no one but has not given up her core allegiance to her family. Her mental strength and ability to discern and play roles are how she survives. She is active to survive.

in contrast, Sansa lies a lot, lies to herself, relies on others and forgets her identity in order to survive. Beauty is a passive strength and also a risk. She takes a passive route.

It is a great set up for them to work together, eventually.

Arya able to learn from other people very deliberately, courageously and persistently, if she thinks the skills are worthy. She even sews to help Sandor heal from wounds. She is learning discipline along the way, and she is not a woman yet.

Sansa is learning passively from other people’s example. She is learning the good and the bad from Cersei, Joffrey, Olenna, the Hound, Tyrion, Lysa and LF, but she has not made the connections and judgements, yet, that Arya would do much more quickly, (and perhaps, rashly). She is only 13, right?

[Chris Mormont]

I hate it when I read people calling Arya an insane cold blooded killer.  She is a survivor.  It is not as if she woke up one day and decided to become an assassin.  She was fascinated by Jaqen, and wanted to learn his skills so she would feel safe.  Yes she keeps talking about killing those on her list as revenge, but remember she is a little girl, who has lost a lot of people close to her, and their killers are on her list in part because she fears them.  She has seen first hand how evil these people are and knows if they got a chance they would kill her first.