Beware the perfumed seneschal

[fire&blood]

So I'm doing the reread of AFFC & ADWD simultaneously (a la All Leather Must Be Boiled) and I'm at the part where Tyrion and Jorah are on the Selaesori Qhoran headed for Dany.  I don't have the book on me right now but I know it's in ADWD 34, Tyrion VIII chapter that Moqorro has a conversation with Tyrion about the name of the ship and what it means.  Basically, one of the words translates to steward or maester in Westerosi (seneschal) and the other means fragrant (perfumed)- hence the Fragrant Steward which Tyrion jokingly refers to as the "Stinky Steward" because it smells. Seneschal definition is "steward".  Is this the perfumed seneschal that Quaithe tried to warn Dany of? We know Moqorro is a red priest sent by Benerro to offer guidance and help Daenerys, but he ends up being rescued by Victarion and the Iron Fleet. Thoughts?

 

[zandru]

I think so. But another excellent candidate is Reznak mo Reznak, often referred to as "the perfumed seneschal." But that, in my opinion, would have been too obvious.

The Selaesori Qhoran carried Tyrion, Jorah Mormont, Penny the Dwarf Jouster, and Moqorro among its named characters. Any one of them would be considered a potential danger, less perhaps Penny. Moqorro is headed to Slaver's Bay  via Victarion's ship. Tyrion, Jorah and Penny are trying to get to Daenerys through the Golden Co., but would use any other means necessary. That's assuming Dany returns from the Dothraki "Sea."

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

10 minutes ago, zandru said:

The Selaesori Qhoran carried Tyrion, Jorah Mormont, Penny the Dwarf Jouster, and Moqorro among its named characters. Any one of them would be considered a potential danger,

Yes, but Quaithe already warns of Tyrion and Moqorro (lion and dark flame). It would seem redundant to also name the ship. 

I believe the perfumed seneschal is Illyrio. He wears perfume, he is a seneschal, and Dany should beware of him.

@fire&blood If you are interested:

 

[fire&blood]

13 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Yes, but Quaithe already warns of Tyrion and Moqorro (lion and dark flame). It would seem redundant to also name the ship. 

I believe the perfumed seneschal is Illyrio. He wears perfume, he is a seneschal, and Dany should beware of him.

@fire&blood If you are interested:

 

Thanks for that! I'll check it out. I'm just wondering what other options it could be beside Varys or Illyrio - It caught my eye on the reread that the ship they were traveling on references perfumed senseschal.

[fire&blood]

35 minutes ago, zandru said:

I think so. But another excellent candidate is Reznak mo Reznak, often referred to as "the perfumed seneschal." But that, in my opinion, would have been too obvious.

The Selaesori Qhoran carried Tyrion, Jorah Mormont, Penny the Dwarf Jouster, and Moqorro among its named characters. Any one of them would be considered a potential danger, less perhaps Penny. Moqorro is headed to Slaver's Bay  via Victarion's ship. Tyrion, Jorah and Penny are trying to get to Daenerys through the Golden Co., but would use any other means necessary. That's assuming Dany returns from the Dothraki "Sea."

Exactly - some of them seem too "on the nose" (pun intended lol). Like Reznak, Varys and Illyrio since they're either referred to as such or we constantly get details about them using scents to cover their smell.  I feel like GRRM wouldn't make anything obvious to his readers.

[Megorova]

I was convinced, that the perfumed seneschal is Illyrio, or Varys. Though Varys is probably the mummer, from the mummer's dragon part, where the dragon is fAegon/Young Griff.

Though if "seneschal" could mean maester or steward, then this adds more possible candidates to the list.

Maester Marwyn.

Sam Tarly.

And even Jon Snow.

Out of all people, that were going to Dany, Quaithe didn't warned her only about maester Marwyn. Or maybe she did. Because Marwyn could be this perfumed seneschal.

Sam in Night's Watch was steward. Perfumed part could be added some time later.

Jon also was steward. Was he already Lord Commander, by the time Quaithe gave to Dany that warning, or was he still a steward? And perfumed because of this - "A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness" <- this is obviously Jon, blue winter roses are symbol of Lyanna's and Rhaegar's love, and thus their child, Jon Snow, is also a symbol of their love, and thus he is that blue rose from Dany's vision.

Or maybe that perfumed seneschal, is not someone, but rather something. Maybe it's a ship itself, not whoever sailed on it. Maybe Moqorro, and his five pals brought on it some anti-dragon weapon, or binding device. Several of them died, but several survived. Thus they could have still had that something with them. And eventually they will arrive to Meereen and Dany's dragons.

Another candidate - necromancer Qyburn.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

3 hours ago, fire&blood said:

Basically, one of the words translates to steward or maester in Westerosi (seneschal) and the other means fragrant (perfumed)- hence the Fragrant Steward which Tyrion jokingly refers to as the "Stinky Steward" because it smells.

My thoughts on this after the re-read were that this was referencing Varys. 

Varys is not named a senechal or even a steward, but I thought the description fitting. Varys is known as this perfumed man. Several characters make the comment on that, powdered and perfumed.

But when he dons his disguise as Rugen for example, he stinks. Varys is both perfumed and stinky, just like the ship. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Yes, but Quaithe already warns of Tyrion and Moqorro (lion and dark flame). It would seem redundant to also name the ship. 

I believe the perfumed seneschal is Illyrio. He wears perfume, he is a seneschal, and Dany should beware of him.

@fire&blood If you are interested:

 

It is known. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, fire&blood said:

Exactly - some of them seem too "on the nose" (pun intended lol). Like Reznak, Varys and Illyrio since they're either referred to as such or we constantly get details about them using scents to cover their smell.  I feel like GRRM wouldn't make anything obvious to his readers.

I thought it was Reznak for a loooooong time. He is a great candidate, but for Daenerys making it to obvious for the reader. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Megorova said:

I was convinced, that the perfumed seneschal is Illyrio, or Varys. Though Varys is probably the mummer, from the mummer's dragon part, where the dragon is fAegon/Young Griff.

Though if "seneschal" could mean maester or steward, then this adds more possible candidates to the list.

Maester Marwyn.

Sam Tarly.

And even Jon Snow.

Out of all people, that were going to Dany, Quaithe didn't warned her only about maester Marwyn. Or maybe she did. Because Marwyn could be this perfumed seneschal.

Sam in Night's Watch was steward. Perfumed part could be added some time later.

Jon also was steward. Was he already Lord Commander, by the time Quaithe gave to Dany that warning, or was he still a steward? And perfumed because of this - "A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness" <- this is obviously Jon, blue winter roses are symbol of Lyanna's and Rhaegar's love, and thus their child, Jon Snow, is also a symbol of their love, and thus he is that blue rose from Dany's vision.

Or maybe that perfumed seneschal, is not someone, but rather something. Maybe it's a ship itself, not whoever sailed on it. Maybe Moqorro, and his five pals brought on it some anti-dragon weapon, or binding device. Several of them died, but several survived. Thus they could have still had that something with them. And eventually they will arrive to Meereen and Dany's dragons.

Another candidate - necromancer Qyburn.

Marwyn is a good candidate, but his rough description does not jibe with the perfumed part, does it? 

[kissdbyfire]

I'm n the Varys is the PS camp. But truth be told, I've never really given it much thought. 

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

At the very beginning of Game, we learn that Illyrio, a wealthy Magister in the Free City of Pentos, has been aiding the Targlings and showering them with gifts for the past six months. Viserys believes that Illyrio is doing this for profit, believing that Illyrio expects to be rewarded when he comes into his throne, but Daenerys’s misgivings, as well as the fact that they were left to run from city to city for several years before Illyrio began to succor them, suggests right away to the reader that Illyrio’s motives should be questioned.

Dany could smell the stench of Illyrio's pallid flesh through his heavy perfumes.

When Viserys talks about making good his claim to the Iron Throne, he declares that he will kill Robert Baratheon himself, to which Illyrio replies, “That would be most fitting," but Daenerys notices “the smallest hint of a smile playing around his full lips,” which Viserys fails to notice. And Illyrio appears to feed into Viserys’s paranoia about being pursued by assassins sent by Robert Baratheon, which we learn just nine chapters later is a false belief.

Also present at the betrothal feast for Daenerys and Drogo is Ser Jorah Mormont, about whom Illyrio knows a great deal, suggesting that Jorah, who will play Daenerys false, is in league with Illyrio.

Illyrio has brokered a betrothal between Drogo, khal of the greatest of the Dothraki khalasars, and Daenerys, that will ostensibly benefit Viserys’s claim to the Iron Throne. 

Illyrio, of course, attends the wedding feast, where we see Jorah and Illyrio enjoy each other’s jests, further suggesting that the two are in league with one another. 

And once again, we see a hint that Illyrio has some ulterior motive. When Viserys claims that he is “no lesser man,” but “the rightful Lord of the Seven Kingdoms,” and that “[t]he dragon does not beg," Daenerys notices...

Illyrio smiled enigmatically and tore a wing from the duck. Honey and grease ran over his fingers and dripped down into his beard as he nibbled at the tender meat.

And in Dance we learn that Illyrio has been backing Aegon all along despite Daenerys's trust in him. 

[Foot_Of_The_King]

2 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

My thoughts on this after the re-read were that this was referencing Varys. 

Varys is not named a senechal or even a steward, but I thought the description fitting. Varys is known as this perfumed man. Several characters make the comment on that, powdered and perfumed.

But when he dons his disguise as Rugen for example, he stinks. Varys is both perfumed and stinky, just like the ship. 

This is what I've always thought. Also, notice how this warning is spoken separately from the others. Seems to me like she's putting emphasis on this one. And of all the candidates the Spider is the one I would be most afraid of. 

[Lynesse]

Agreed that Illyrio is probably the most likely candidate.

I have two more ideas:

Satin, Jon's steward. He combs sweet scent in his beard.

More of a crackpot – how about the Tyrells? The are upjumped stewards, their sigil is a rose, they are associated with pleasant smells. Off the top of my my head, when Sansa meets Olenna for the first time, Olenna “smelled of rosewater.” (ASOS Sansa I)

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

At the very beginning of Game, we learn that Illyrio, a wealthy Magister in the Free City of Pentos, has been aiding the Targlings and showering them with gifts for the past six months. Viserys believes that Illyrio is doing this for profit, believing that Illyrio expects to be rewarded when he comes into his throne, but Daenerys’s misgivings, as well as the fact that they were left to run from city to city for several years before Illyrio began to succor them, suggests right away to the reader that Illyrio’s motives should be questioned.

Dany could smell the stench of Illyrio's pallid flesh through his heavy perfumes.

When Viserys talks about making good his claim to the Iron Throne, he declares that he will kill Robert Baratheon himself, to which Illyrio replies, “That would be most fitting," but Daenerys notices “the smallest hint of a smile playing around his full lips,” which Viserys fails to notice. And Illyrio appears to feed into Viserys’s paranoia about being pursued by assassins sent by Robert Baratheon, which we learn just nine chapters later is a false belief.

Also present at the betrothal feast for Daenerys and Drogo is Ser Jorah Mormont, about whom Illyrio knows a great deal, suggesting that Jorah, who will play Daenerys false, is in league with Illyrio.

Illyrio has brokered a betrothal between Drogo, khal of the greatest of the Dothraki khalasars, and Daenerys, that will ostensibly benefit Viserys’s claim to the Iron Throne. 

Illyrio, of course, attends the wedding feast, where we see Jorah and Illyrio enjoy each other’s jests, further suggesting that the two are in league with one another. 

And once again, we see a hint that Illyrio has some ulterior motive. When Viserys claims that he is “no lesser man,” but “the rightful Lord of the Seven Kingdoms,” and that “[t]he dragon does not beg," Daenerys notices...

Illyrio smiled enigmatically and tore a wing from the duck. Honey and grease ran over his fingers and dripped down into his beard as he nibbled at the tender meat.

And in Dance we learn that Illyrio has been backing Aegon all along despite Daenerys's trust in him. 

Yes. 

And in my opinion Illyrio will burn for all of this. How many times over and over do we readers hear about what a sack of suet (lard) he is, and how lard-oil-suet-etc stocked in great quantities will burn hot and fast. Jon uses the lard barrels at the wall to burn the stairs, and we know Dothraki (past and future) burn quickly with their oiled hair.  

[Lollygag]

4 hours ago, Lynesse said:

Agreed that Illyrio is probably the most likely candidate.

I have two more ideas:

Satin, Jon's steward. He combs sweet scent in his beard.

More of a crackpot – how about the Tyrells? The are upjumped stewards, their sigil is a rose, they are associated with pleasant smells. Off the top of my my head, when Sansa meets Olenna for the first time, Olenna “smelled of rosewater.” (ASOS Sansa I)

The Tyrells sound perfect to me - this is brilliant and it has my vote!

Illyrio and Varys are very strong candidates, but Dany (and the reader) already deeply distrusts Illyrio, so any further warning about him is just redundant for me. Dany hasn't met Varys, but in his form of the perfumed seneschal, nobody really trusts him so I rather doubt Dany would either. Also, the mummer's dragon is mentioned and if the seneschal is Varys, he's mentioned twice. Again, this seems redundant.

I agree that Satin should be considered. There's a pattern of prophesy going to the wrong person or being attributed to the wrong person and we've already been told to question this prophesy as the Griffin and the mummer's dragon aren't coming. I've entertained the idea that it may be Jon who should beware the perfumed seneschal. Ok, I just really don't trust Satin. He's not as diligent about lighting Jon's fire as Edd was and has too many possible links to LF.

Another idea which is less likely is maybe it's Jon himself. Jon is a steward and the LC's duties are certainly more stewardy than rangy or buildy. "Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal" are broken off from the rest so I wonder if they go together. If so then the seneschal might be tied to Dany's destiny as bride of fire/opponent of the Others. The Undying, the Others/wights, and the stonemen all seem related things. In ASOIAF, sweet is very often (perhaps most often) a bad thing rather than good and this is the interpretation I have for "filled the air with sweetness". With a quick search, perfume is treated in a similar fashion as sweet.

 

ADWD Daenerys II

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

ACOK Daenerys IV
A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

 

[Corvo the Crow]

Wiktionary says seneschal comes from siniz+skalkaz; senior + servant/knight in proto germanic

It is also a steward and in late medieval france, an officer of the crown serving as a governor and chief justice.

Anyone know if Randyll Tarly smells of Roses?

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

I don't think he is the likeliest candidate, but just mentioning Garth the Gross. He's seneschal of the Reach, and breaks wind a lot.

[HexMachina]

9 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I thought it was Reznak for a loooooong time. He is a great candidate, but for Daenerys making it to obvious for the reader. 

I don’t necessarily think it is Reznak, but just because Dany thinks it might be him doesn’t mean it isn’t. She also thinks of Quentyn as the Sun’s Son, and identifies the coming Pale Mare. So she isn’t all that bad at reading signs 

[Rufus Snow]

There are so many good candidates - Varys, Illyrio, the ship, Reznak, one or more Tyrells - when it finally comes out, I think we will all be wrong and very surprised....