Cobra Kai

[Ran]

They appear to have a six season plan, so it seems they have a story in mind, which is good. Whether it'll be worth it, I don't know, but given that S4 worked better for me than S3, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The double-dealing and backstabbing in the martial arts industry is probably worth a novel or two. My niece does taekwondo, and there's this whole saga over the lady who ran the school selling it to a corporate group with multiple locations who claimed she'd remain involved, only for that to be a lie and soon after they were apparently in breach of their deal with her that got her out of non-compete and now she's opened a new, rival school in the area.

[Jaxom 1974]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

They appear to have a six season plan, so it seems they have a story in mind,

Well, the All Valley Tournament, the crux of the entire Miyagi-verse (it is a thing!), is the Under 18 tourney...now they've said the characters are all juniors and younger, but they're facing the Stranger Things conundrum as the younger people get older (Mary Mouser is the oldest of the main "teen" characters at 25 and Xolo Mariduena is the youngest at 20). Of course, does that matter in a Karate Kid scenario?  I'd think the sixth season will be the next time the Tournament is seen, but the show has to end there, doesn't it...?

 

Sidebar...how the hell does the All Valley not already have a girls division and a boys division...?

[Arakasi]

I think Cobra Kai is definitely tongue in cheek in that they’re showing the natural consequence of all these gung-ho martial arts films and where it would go. Basically make it all over the top and crazy and silly to the outsiders while the people inside the world take it seriously. I’ve not finished season four yet but 1-3 I’d describe as a bunch of people trying to be serious inside a farsical world.

[Corvinus85]

Finished it, and once again loved it. I laughed at myself at few times thinking about how much I enjoy this karate soap opera, but damn the show does a good job weaving the silly with the realistic and excels at turning heroes into villains and the unsympathetic into sympathetic.

The fight choreography for the tournament fights were a step above most other fight scenes.

Terry Silver proved to be a great villain. On a side note, I felt sorry for Thomas Ian Griffith; he's by far the tallest actor and always had to stoop down. 

[Martell Spy]

Great season. Loved that they brought back Stingray and also he became a key part of the story. Kenny is an excellent addition to the cast. 

It sounds like the 6 season plan is just a general plan and not set in stone. I'm pretty confident these writers could figure out a way to go longer. I was wondering how they were going to get out of the dojos closing bet. I thought perhaps Cobra Kai would lose and then just refuse to honor the deal. Pretty clear Daniel has no intention of closing. 

[Jaxom 1974]

10 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Great season. Loved that they brought back Stingray and also he became a key part of the story. Kenny is an excellent addition to the cast. 

It sounds like the 6 season plan is just a general plan and not set in stone. I'm pretty confident these writers could figure out a way to go longer. I was wondering how they were going to get out of the dojos closing bet. I thought perhaps Cobra Kai would lose and then just refuse to honor the deal. Pretty clear Daniel has no intention of closing. 

I think Daniel is going to step away from running Miagi-Do...because it's going to be Chozen in charge...doesn't mean Daniel is going away, he just isn't going to be the sensei...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

It did finish strong.  But whoever called it a “Karate Soap Opera” was right on the money.

[Jaxom 1974]

 

[Veltigar]

I finished the fourth season two days ago. It was excellent, easliy the best Cobra Kai has been since season one. I'm flabbergasted by the fact that they are able to wring so much great material from the old franchise. This must certainly be the zenith of the eighties nostalgia wave. 

I was particularly struck by just how fresh and energetic this season felt. I was beginning to get concerned that they would run out of story after the third season which I liked, but wasn't as enamored by as the first two seasons. The addition of Terry Silver to the mix and the willingness to step awy from the All-Valley tournament as the driving force behind the competition were bold moves, but just like the tornado kick, they paid off. Like @Ran I also liked the addition of new child characters who can carry more of the plol in the coming seasons. I also feel like the existing young cast worked a lot better than last season. Tory in particular benefitted from more exposure. She has such a sympathetic backstory, but they didn't play that out well enough I feel. Contrasting her more with Sam was a good move, as it laid her entitlements bare, making her less of a goody two-shoes and thus making both characters more well-rounded.

I'd say that the only thing I was a bit disappointed by was the growth of John. I feel like both LaRusso and Johny were a bit frustrating this season, as they were so obtuse about the obvious need for cooperation and the need to work together. THe handling of Johny frustrated me the most however, as I feel like most of his growth was reactive to Danny getting the point of them working together and then explaining it to Johny.

One final thing I'd like to praise about this show is just how good it is at elevating the schloky material on which it is based. On that front it really is the gold standard of a spin-off. The way it has deepened the relationship between Silver and Kreese, they actually made Karate Kid III more palatable to watch! And even better, the show does it for its own weaker characters as well. I never imagined that we would be getting Stingray back. I did not dislike that character, but I get that a lot of people where not a fan, but the way they bring him into play here elevated the earlier material.

Very excited to see where this show ventures in the next season. I was surprised by the return of Chozen, but I think that is going to be loads of fin. I saw the focus on Miguels' dad coming from a mile off on the other hand and I think it's a good direction to take.

Speaking of hidden father figures, we know we are getting Miguel's sire soon and I quite like the idea of Torry's mom being Hilary Swank but has anyone ever thought about the reveal that

Spoiler

Kreese might be Johny's biological father? I feel like they are laying the groundwork for that, with Johny being Kreese's only weakness according to Silver and the whole vibe I got from the flashback scene with little Johny. Am I the only one who sees that?

 

On 1/6/2022 at 12:37 AM, Jaxom 1974 said:

 

I like his performance a lot, but in world with Ted Lasso in it, he's never going to win.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

 

Speaking of hidden father figures, we know we are getting Miguel's sire soon and I quite like the idea of Torry's mom being Hilary Swank but has anyone ever thought about the reveal that

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Kreese might be Johny's biological father? I feel like they are laying the groundwork for that, with Johny being Kreese's only weakness according to Silver and the whole vibe I got from the flashback scene with little Johny. Am I the only one who sees that?

 

The more I think about the Who is Tory's mom theory...I wonder if it could be Hilary Swank's character...for her to never told Tory about Myagi? That's suspicious. 

I'm starting to lean more into the idea that her mom could be the failed love interst from iIi...Julie...it's more likely that a friendship with Daniel could more easily be set aside and not mentioned...

Spoiler

As to the idea of Kreese being Johnny's father...I'm all for thr soapy melodrama of the show...but that would be a little too...soapy...even for this show...

 

[Corvinus85]

@Veltigar On Kreese and Johnny

Spoiler

I agree that the show took some steps to potentially set up Kreese as Johnny's dad, but some of the flashbacks and the original movie suggest otherwise.

In 1984 Johnny Lawrence was a high schooler and 2-time champion. He would have been 16-17 maybe. Depending on when Kreese got out of Vietnam, him being the father may be possible, but not entirely likely. In the young Johnny flashback from this season we see the box he kept with the crushed beer can and other items, which point to a deadbeat loser type of man. I did not get that impression from the Kreese flashbacks. He was driven, he had a purpose which was Cobra Kai. The later Kreese becomes that after losing his dojo. 

@Jaxom 1974 On Tory's mom

Spoiler

It would be cruel for Julie Pierce to be Tory's sickly mom. But I doubt she is because I don't think there was ever any indication of the orphaned Julie Pierce having a sister. But I don't really have any memory of the movie, I just read the plot summary to refamiliarize myself with it a bit.

 

[Veltigar]

5 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

The more I think about the Who is Tory's mom theory...I wonder if it could be Hilary Swank's character...for her to never told Tory about Myagi? That's suspicious. 

Might be that her illness made that impossible. We don't really know what she has, apart from it being really bad right?

I only found this on the internet so far with some comments by the creators. I feel like they are playing coy here:

https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/could-we-see-hilary-swank-next-karate-kid-on-cobra-kai

I haven't seen the Hillary Swank film. Anything special about it?

+ When will we see Jaden Smith? 

4 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

@Veltigar On Kreese and Johnny

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I agree that the show took some steps to potentially set up Kreese as Johnny's dad, but some of the flashbacks and the original movie suggest otherwise.

In 1984 Johnny Lawrence was a high schooler and 2-time champion. He would have been 16-17 maybe. Depending on when Kreese got out of Vietnam, him being the father may be possible, but not entirely likely. In the young Johnny flashback from this season we see the box he kept with the crushed beer can and other items, which point to a deadbeat loser type of man. I did not get that impression from the Kreese flashbacks. He was driven, he had a purpose which was Cobra Kai. The later Kreese becomes that after losing his dojo. 

 

Thank you @Corvinus85, regardless of whether I like it or not, I'm happy I'm not the only one to recognize the set up

Spoiler

Might Kreese have been so driven by that point that he chose his career in the military and the development of his karate style over a young family? I'm more thinking along those lines. He then regretted his decision and did his best to turn Johny into a champion.

That's actually another thing I found great this season, they really worked magic to present the villains into a shade of grey. If you look at the movies, it's a pretty black and white deal with Kreese as the villain. I felt like they were going that way with the character, but now that Kreese is learning from his mistakes and gave Tory free reign to fight her way. That was pretty great honestly.

[Corvinus85]

13 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Might be that her illness made that impossible. We don't really know what she has, apart from it being really bad right?

I only found this on the internet so far with some comments by the creators. I feel like they are playing coy here:

https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/could-we-see-hilary-swank-next-karate-kid-on-cobra-kai

I haven't seen the Hillary Swank film. Anything special about it?

+ When will we see Jaden Smith? 

Thank you @Corvinus85, regardless of whether I like it or not, I'm happy I'm not the only one to recognize the set up

  Hide contents

Might Kreese have been so driven by that point that he chose his career in the military and the development of his karate style over a young family? I'm more thinking along those lines. He then regretted his decision and did his best to turn Johny into a champion.

That's actually another thing I found great this season, they really worked magic to present the villains into a shade of grey. If you look at the movies, it's a pretty black and white deal with Kreese as the villain. I felt like they were going that way with the character, but now that Kreese is learning from his mistakes and gave Tory free reign to fight her way. That was pretty great honestly.

I particularly liked it 

Spoiler

when Kreese confronted Amanda about her shenanigans with Tory. Yes, he still did it in his creepy, villainous way, but he clearly has real concern for Tory and her life problems.

I thought the season did such a great job blending who is sympathetic and who isn't, and making everyone's background problems genuine that when the tournament kicked off, I was having a hard time rooting against anyone in terms of the main kids. And I'm glad they devoted two episodes to the tournament, allowing the much improved fight sequences to tell their own little stories.

 

[Veltigar]

1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said:

I particularly liked it 

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when Kreese confronted Amanda about her shenanigans with Tory. Yes, he still did it in his creepy, villainous way, but he clearly has real concern for Tory and her life problems.

I thought the season did such a great job blending who is sympathetic and who isn't, and making everyone's background problems genuine that when the tournament kicked off, I was having a hard time rooting against anyone in terms of the main kids. And I'm glad they devoted two episodes to the tournament, allowing the much improved fight sequences to tell their own little stories.

 

Totally agree

[Jaxom 1974]

2 hours ago, Veltigar said:

 

+ When will we see Jaden Smith? 

 

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Bite your tongue!

[Relic]

12 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Bite your tongue!

Read some article where the showrunner said that only people who were in the Mr. Miyagi films are part of this K.K. universe.

[3CityApache]

I only ever watched the first Karate Kid movie, and I haven't remembered one bit of it when I started watching Cobra Kai, so all those flashbacks to the movies, and new characters from them, where completely new for me, didn't have any sentimental value. And yet it all worked great. I think it's because it's simply very well written. Of course there are shortcuts, for example Kenny's arc from being bullied to being a bully was much too abrupt for me, but generally it pays off to show a backstory to even minor characters, to let us understand their motivations. I agree the show does a great work in greying the characters we first think are straightforward villains and the other way around.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, Relic said:

Read some article where the showrunner said that only people who were in the Mr. Miyagi films are part of this K.K. universe.

Miyagi-verse...it's a thing!

(The remake is like a bad JJ Abrams Trek reboot, except the creators of the later show continuations don't try to shoehorn the movie into established canon...)

[Myrddin]

This show continues to be better than it has any right to be. Not sure how they're able to meld actual character development with base nostalgic source material, and yet stays light even within the violent wrappings.

The fact the kids are not covered in bruises and broken ribs on a daily basis shows the extent of how real it is. And I wouldn't change a thing.

They're nailing Tory's arc, and I like even more how they handled Amanda's shift in perspective. She's caught between not wanting her daughter continue to get hurt and overcome her trauma, but she also recognizes the cycle Tory is trapped in.

Again, the show is better than it has a right to be. 

[Lord Varys]

Terry Silver summarizing and commenting on the ridiculous plot of Karate Kid III was priceless. The same when Daniel reflects on the weird turns his life took during the movies.

That the world as such is one we cannot take that seriously can, I think, be drawn more from the importance an underage karate tourney plays to people in this world ... especially much older guys who should have moved on with their lives ;-).

Also, the whole importance of karate philosophy for your everyday life is basically a Star Wars-like scenario. That is only believable in this weird secondary world.

Although I like how in every good soap legal authorities do shop to service the plot, e.g. when Kreese is arrested or when he earlier issued that restraining order against Amanda or when Robby had to go to prison.

But the really fun aspect is that there is still a kind of normal world in the background.