La casa de papel [Money heist]

[Nictarion]

Berlin  

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Finished binging Season 3.Loved it! But what a cliffhanger to end on.Season 4 can't come soon enough.

[Zorral]

13 hours ago, AncalagonTheBlack said:

Finished binging Season 3.Loved it! But what a cliffhanger to end on.Season 4 can't come soon enough.

Coz 'a u, I started watching this series this afternoon.  It's literally hot as blazes, killing hot -- we are all instructed to stay inside if we possibly can, so ....

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

8 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Coz 'a u, I started watching this series this afternoon.  It's literally hot as blazes, killing hot -- we are all instructed to stay inside if we possibly can, so ....

 

Well,then enjoy.You have 3 whole seasons worth of goodness to binge!

[Nictarion]

On 7/20/2019 at 4:07 AM, AncalagonTheBlack said:

Finished binging Season 3.Loved it! But what a cliffhanger to end on.Season 4 can't come soon enough.

Just finished S3. Also loved it. For what seemed like a completely unnecessary season in theory, it turned out to be pretty great. And I’ll certainly watch another. 

I’m glad they found a way to work in so much Berlin. His scenes with the Professor were some of the best of the season, imo. 

Glad Raquel’s death was just a fake out, but I need Nairobi (probably my second favorite character) to be ok too...

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Money Heist 4 | Date Announcement | Netflix

Let the chaos begin. Part 4 of Money Heist debuts exclusively on Netflix April 3rd, 2020.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Let the chaos begin. Money Heist: Part 4. Premieres April 3rd.

 

 

[Myrddin]

Can't wait. I was able to binge watch seasons 1 and 2 back to back. I should've anticipated that season 3 would the beginning of a two parted too, but no, I had to watch it last summer... 

Let's see Logain the Professor get out of this one.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Season 4 is here. Si profesor! Let's do this.

[AncalagonTheBlack]

34 minutes into episode 1 of the new season and fucking hilarious scene with ...

Spoiler

Berlin! He's got a good voice too haha

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]

Finished the new season.What an ending , cliffhanger that will be plot of the next season...let's just say that ehm..the tables have been turned!

[Nictarion]

Nairobi 

[Mladen]

So, I finally jumped on the bandwagon  

To say that La Casa de Papel has a cult status in Serbia would be an understatement. Even people who ordinarily don't watch TV series somehow has learned about it, Give it to a former communist country that has been destroyed by capitalist transition to adore the TV drama about bank robberies and showing a finger to the system.

It is not perfect, but it has its moments. In a world of fake news and whistleblowers, one really has to understand the fight against the system. That said, I was not completely sold off on the movement the first two seasons, but then the third season really kicked in. But at the end, the most important thing is that it's fun and that is the most important thing. 

[kairparavel]

On 4/4/2020 at 3:12 PM, Nictarion said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nairobi 

 

I watched on the recommendation of a friend who also recommended Dark. He described it as a cleverly disguised soap opera and I see no falsehood in that. Loved it.

I'm not sure what it says that I love Berlin so much. And I can't stop singing Bella Ciao. 

[Nictarion]

19 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Trying to figure out what city name I'd want if I got to join and El Professor gave me a choice.  

They gave Monica’s baby the name of my city (Cincinnati) which was pretty cool. 

Think I’d probably go with Venice if I got to choose. 

[kairparavel]

And the series itself is a great story about second chances. In the documentary on Netflix you find out up front that it was a second season flop.

The Professor has been cast in The Wheel of Time adaptation on Amazon. 

 

And a fave cameo:

Spoiler

Neymar as a monk, talking soccer with Berlin. So great. 

 

[RhaenysBee]

I finished season 4 yesterday. I apologize in advance to anybody who attempts to read my overly detailed ramble about this experience. 

Overall, it was quite a roller coaster. Sometimes exhilarating, fun, genius and clever, other times irritating, utterly dumb, cheap and self-serving. Season 1-2 are the kinda roller coaster I want to get back on again and again and enjoy the ride in spite of the ups and downs. Season 3-4 are the kinda roller coaster I was struggling to enjoy and mostly wanted the ride to be over. Now I’m merely an intuitive  and flawed human who is lazy for proper research yet stained by prejudices being a consumer of the entertainment industry for some 15 years have left in me. So I’m neither stating this as a fact nor as an accusation, this just a (potentially entirely wrong) impression that I have: Netflix had a terrible influence on the series. 

While seasons 1-2 are hardly perfect, seasons 3-4 feel like Netflix took this decent enough painting, added blotches of it’s own trademark colors (sometimes pissed on the original to help the formulas mix) that are mandatory to match the Netflix Mall interior, stamped its logo in the corner and hanged it in a shop window. 

Seasons 1-2 

Spoiler

I really enjoyed the story. The plan was clever and detailed which made it realistic to an unknowing audience. (I’m sure that anybody working as an engineer or in the justice system would rightfully disagree) The characters were mostly enjoyable, layered to different extents, unpredictable, witty and mostly relatable. They each had roles in the robbery and their actions aligned with their personalities and even though it wasn’t always airtight it made enough sense to believe as a viewer. All of them were annoying yet inspiring, realistic enough to be relatable yet fantastic enough to be entertaining, smart and stupid, and that’s all part of human nature. I enjoyed all of them for different reasons. The acting was prime, especially Berlin, The Professor and Tokyo (in this order). 

The writing was intelligent, eloquent, full of feeling, balanced, not overdone and had a natural flow, even if it was at times sprinkled with fairy tale miracles one found a tad difficult to buy. There were stakes, ramifications, the law, the value of life, political interests, international pressure, media and public opinion mattered and conflicts and ethical dilemmas felt real. The editing made for incredible tension, as the audience I didn’t know if what was happening was planned or not, it was only revealed later, and the story taught us early on that it could go either way (the professor could be caught off guard, characters could die, police could be sacked, hostages could cause trouble with real impact etc). The flashbacks enriched the characters and created believable human bonds.

The main problems I had was the duality of the professor’s genius. The plan was meticulous, professional, airtight, yet whenever things were derailed, he made one rookie mistake after the other. Yes he did always manage to wiggle out of situations, because fiction is fiction, and shit happened to him too (being arrested) so I didn’t necessarily mind that. However the level of amateur hour when he had to improvise was often infuriating. It felt also off how quickly and easily he broke his own first rule: not making the job personal. 

The police also seemed a bit too intuitive and lax, especially Raquel (who goes on a date in the middle of a hostage crises?). 

Arturo is the most annoying spineless piece of shit television has ever seen but the character was whole and intact and as consistent as can be. So other than deep personal dislike, I had no problem with him. 

Romance and shot wounds were incredibly unrealistic though. I had little problem with Monica and Denver, as I am generally not bothered by the “Stockholm syndrome” effect (it takes a whole lot of tooth-gritting to not get into how Stockholm syndrome is a highly undefined and unrecognized psychological condition and the lines between it and other coping mechanisms are incredibly foggy. it’s just one of the many words people love throwing around these days without really having an understanding about it). Monica was built up as someone who wanted to be wanted and to find true, open, uncompromising happiness but all she ever received from Arturo was lies, empty promises and she was always a second choice to him. I believed when she said that she loved Denver because he honestly wanted her. They were both young and Monica seemed to have nothing in her life to tie her down. 
And then there was Raquel and the Professor. And I can potentially see why Raquel wanted and needed love and why the Professor’s cute, flimsy, introverted persona was just right for her. But we are talking about a 40-year-old detective. Where’s professionalism? Where’s self discipline? Same for the Professor who endangered his entire team and project. And then Raquel just decided randomly that she’d go big instead of home and uproot her life. Which would be fine if there was a longer/ more powerful process (like the Professor did something very important or life-changing for her family) or she was really pushed into an unsolvable dilemma (like choose between your daughter or shoot the Professor). This way it just felt a bit too Disney. from the professor’s perspective, it’d have been great to see something about his past romantic life that’d support why this particular person swept him off his feet so hard. 

Oh the worst moment was when Monica, an executive assistant, just fired an M16 to help Rio and Tokio when the police broke in. Just like that. Never taught, never practiced. And recoil is just an urban legend anyway. 
 

I’ll come back with season 3-4 when I have another one hour waiting to do for something or someone. 

[RhaenysBee]

Seasons 3-4 then. 

The most striking impression I had was that either two or more completely different people wrote the script without consulting one another or someone went over the completed script to cross out important bits and put twitter conversations in their place. Generally I couldn’t get rid of the feeling that I’m watching a fanfiction based on the original La Casa de Papel (seasons 1-2) which features the same actors under the same character names while everything else is lost or replaced with loud yet shallow and ignorant representation of social issues. 

Even though the plot was entirely all over the place without rules, consistency, a general direction or any stakes at all, what bothered me even more was the characters who said and did things none of their season 1-2 selves would ever do. They were out of character, the relationships and conflicts between them were incredibly contrived, their roles hardly aligned with their strengths or weaknesses, they lacked any trace of knowledge or experience from the first heist and acted in a more amateur way than the first time around. Many of them were stand-in extras to complete the visual Designs of shots. Since LCDP is such a heavily character led series, this is really left a mark on the overall experience. 

Now onto the specifics. 
characters 

Spoiler

Just because you give city names to people it doesn’t make them part of a group. Interacting with at least one other character for longer than 10 seconds makes them part of a group. Giving them their own purpose and role makes them part of a group. Grotesquely, this worked all right  with the new male characters, although Marseilles was painfully one dimensional. Bogota was likable, realistic, he had more than one role in the heist, he formed bonds with other characters and had thoughts. Palermo was entirely about his unfulfilled love for Berlin which was the alpha and omega of his character. Nothing else about his unstable genius was revealed at any point, both his soft and jackass side stemmed from this. He had little interaction with anybody and when he did he was mostly a bully, and his leading role was attributed to “owning the plan”, he had no actual leadership qualities or special skills. He was a pale shadow of everything Berlin was in season 1-2. 

And then there were the poor ladies. Even though the show made such a loud and attention-seeking effort to root out previously non-existent sexism in the group, it was laughable that both new female band members had essentially no role or added value in the heist. Neither Raquel, nor Monica were anything but the Professor’s and Denver’s girlfriends.
Raquel could at least contribute as a plot device when she was captured and made for a whole entire separate rescue operation. She however had about two minutes of screen time with group members other than the professor, had no added value in the chess play with the police or insider information about the CNI, police etc machinations, she was just an unnecessary double for the Professor, a subject of almost all sex scenes.
Monica, who was an exec assistant in another money institution could have served as a pool of information about admin systems, internal protocols of monetary institutions (which is a feeble enough asset but better than the big fat nothing she had). She could have Been consciously made Nairobi’s second because she isn’t violent but probably has valuable skills of coordination and precision etc. But no, she just stood there with a gun, had nonsensical rows with Denver. Her one and only use was being moral support for Rio which made no real difference either. It was just sad.

And then there was Manila who was added in retrospect to the original team and created more plot holes than the group and the police combined. Other than to represent inclusiveness and diversity, she failed at her job about 10 times before she finally stepped in to handle Arturo. If you are going to include a character, diversity or not, she needs to do something. Why not merge him with Matias who was yet another stand-in with a name and a fake hostage? Why not have her guard Arturo and actually prevent problems? Why not have her discover the rotating toilet paper rod for the amount of times she asked to go to the bathroom? Anything. Just do anything with that poor person. 

On the opposite side, Tamayo was a cardboard character with no drive, no personality, no charisma or real authority. He wasn’t a doer like Angel, he wasn’t a quiet menacing force like Prieto used to be and he wasn’t clever or humane or patient or rule abiding or rebellious or anything really. He was just there to be exactly what the plot required him to be at a given moment. Alicia Sierra was great, a much better nemesis for the Professor than anybody else. She was the right amount of crazy with the right amount of spice, she was smart and cruel and she didn’t play by the rules. 

And then there were the old characters. I don’t know which writer took such queer joy in tormenting Nairobi for two seasons straight, but the poor sod ended up doing nothing but being in platonically in love and tormented. She used to be the heart and soul of the group, she had such insane level of energy and ability to connect with people, she could take charge and be tough when needed. Seasons 3-4 made her into a tragic damsel.
Helsinki was more or less left intact though he was for the most part busy in his own love triangle instead of using his strengths (literally) to further the cause. Denver and Rio barely did anything other than their own personal drama, which again had little to do with the plot. Except when Rio became a liability because of his ptsd. Denver never had it out with Arturo and (again, I cannot forget the specifically anti-sexist scenes) turned on his own wife(!) when he found out that Arturo molested her. This was never resolved in any way.

And then there was Tokio, who went from irresponsible, selfish megalomaniac to the voice of reason, mature leadership and miracle surgeon. How, when, why. The worst was the Professor who went from a calculated, detail-obsessed, inflexible introvert into a hysteric, unstable yesman (baby daddy, anybody can come, etc) who agreed to anything without considering plausible ramifications based on previous experiences. The flashbacks with Berlin added no dimension to anything, they were just an excuse to let the actor shine in nonsensical scenes and to pre-narrate events so the audience doesn’t need to think at all. It was just shameful the way his character was handled.
Suarez, a trained and level headed member of the armed forces turned into a sociopath because of work stress and unsuccessful operation. Doesn’t the system screen for this kind of Psychology exactly?

And Arturo. Who for some reason at some point down the road broke into the bank to date rape hostages. Because he is a rapist now. Just like that. 
What represents well how little respect the writing had for characters and the story is the beginning of the new classes. The professor’s introduction telling about city names and general rules is immediately interrupted by Nairobi and asked to cut to the chase: nobody cares about context or world building or characters, bring on the action. This is essentially the flagship slogan of US production (no offense, this is my impression, it may be wrong, it’s possible to disagree)

Storytelling 

Spoiler

The most telling description I can give about this is that seasons 1-2 had my eyes glued to the screen, whereas a serious chunk of season three and sporadic twenty minutes of season 4 I could barely bring myself to watch. 
The screen time was filled with irrelevant fillers that served no purpose in the story, and the series failed to provide any stakes or tension that would keep me interested in the plot. This is partly the fault of wiping out stakes. Netflix (and HBO and US production in general) stay so far away from real stakes as if they were the firepits of Hell. Characters can’t die because fans might be upset, problems can’t arise because they might need effort and clever writing to solve (or if they do, they solve themselves in 5 minutes so the audience doesn’t need to think or worry). In seasons 1-2 THREE members of the 9-person group died. In seasons 3-4 the group’s headcount was pushed up to 13-15 and ONE person was the casualty. Nobody doubted for a second that Rio would be returned and so he was in half a season. The basic conflict of the entire heist was resolved in a quarter of the runtime. Imagine in Alicia fucked them over and didn’t let Rio back.
 Raquel was recovered unharmed and successfully and the Professors’ mole conveniently reached her BEFORE she made the phone call, because god forbid her family would be returned to Spain and used as bargain. Nairobi was shot and her child never seen again, because god forbid we should have to deal with that bargaining. She was of course successfully operated in spite of all odds because isn’t it better to be shot by a psychopathic villain than accidentally killed by a comrade who would have to carry that weight along to the rest of the heist? Of course it is, fans want to love Tokio who is perfect now and the police needs to be seen as a lawless force of evil instead of the representation of justice because the world is black and white. And what little tension might be in the plot and the details and success of the plan, a fast-cut Flashback narration must be included to say exactly what happens before it happens, god forbid the audience have to think or sit on the edge of their seat. God forbid they find the plot too complicated and abandon the series. 
Speaking of the police. After the story fails to create tension or stakes, it goes on to polarizing the opposing sides and makes an inconsistent ridicule of the police. Remember when the police used to have rules and guidelines to follow? Remember when they knew that not doing so would be publicized and backfire? Remember when they were able to be played because of those rules and ethics and public pressure not because of random coincidences or abundance in resources?  

Speaking of public pressure. We had scenes of a raging crowd. Repeatedly. Did they do anything? No. Did they make a difference? No. Did they help, hinder anything or anybody? No. Did the public morale affect decisions? Hardly. Were they even used as a tool? Not really. They were just there. Why not make it more personal and have the previous hostages come out or be interviewed by the reporters? “Senorita, senorita, do you think Aníbal Cortés deserved this treatment?” At least after Nairobi’s death. Show Torres watch the news and march out to join the protesters. Just do something that makes me believe these random people actually care and aren’t a set design. Have some idiots storm the tent when the Professor announces they are holding Raquel and have them demand that Tamayo is removed. Anything. Or just don’t keep showing the crowd. 

A lot of the dialogue focused on not the story to the point I often forgot why they were there and what we were hoping to achieve and what that required. Getting Rio back, getting out, and in order to do so, processing the gold. This was so lost in love triangles, deus ex machinas and plot holes I barely saw the direction of the story. 

Plot holes 

Spoiler

The Governor - So this person is used for absolutely nothing. He is not bargained for, he is not protected, he could as well have been on holiday at the time of the heist. When they break into his office and he disappears in the calamity, he is magically found among other hostages a minute later. He isn’t guarded separately, he isn’t used for anything and his heart attack accounts for nothing, as the problem is perfectly solvable without him and the police never makes any effort to recover him or bargain for him either. He could be a book the library. 

Gandia - so this psychopathic chuck norris was actually hired as the head of security at the most important monetary institution of a country. I suppose there really is no screening process. Anyway, he is left alone for days without separation, special guarding or any insurance whatsoever that he’d stay put. Then. They sit the overthrown Palermo next to him. I suppose nobody, including Rio, remembered that when Rio was in a similar situation during the first heist the first thing he did was give them tips to escape. They just allowed this to happen WITH a planted fake hostage whose job was specifically to watch out for shit like that. This is unforgivable. The person also proved to be indestructible to the point that between several hundreds of bullets fired at him and a grenade thrown directly into his back, he was still alive and functional. What a joke. 

The bunker - several times Gandia disappeared in the bathroom and they didn’t immediately hammer the walls to find out where. Instead the professor looked at a blueprint for one minute, was bitten by a radioactive spider and just KNEW for no reason that the bunker was that way. Nobody thought to ask employees, other guards or the governor. When they found out he had visuals in the bunker, they didn’t immediately shoot the cameras and let them spy on them. Pfff. 

Arturo - First the police, who at this point should have thick files and psychological profiles on all the group members based on testimonies of the hostages of the previous heist, brings in ARTURO (a clearly unreliable, self important media celebrity with personal ties to certain group members) as an EXPERT. This is possibly the worst. Or maybe not. Because Arturo is able to get into the bank. Do stunt guns not exist? But okay, he gets in. Things get worse. He isn’t immediately tied up, gagged and put in a separate room for all the trouble he had caused during the previous heist and would cause now. Or they could as well immediately throw him out like they did Tokio. They could shoot him in the leg. Anything. No. They let him make trouble over and over and over and over again. He rapes people and makes phone calls. Aren’t these hostages guarded? Is there no fake hostage to spot these things? 

Nairobi’s mobile- remember when mobiles were a thing because they could be tracked and tapped into? The police got this device into the bank and NEVER ever used it to see, hear or make contact, until Arturo initiated this. The group didn’t dispose of it either. 

The rope - Was that rope just hanging about in the library In case there are suicidal readers? or did the group bring it for some purpose (if so what was that) and gandia randomly found it? Or did Gandia have a secret rope cupboard behind a painting? Or did he conjure the rope out of thin air? He was on the run. How and why would he acquire this rope when his purpose was reaching the bunker? And he was just able to haul all 150 kilos of Helsinki AND tie a knot on the rail? 

Palermo’s eyes - I have no idea how he got this injury in fact, which then kept being a thing or not dependent  on what the set design required at the moment. His occasional not seeing hardly affected the story in any way. And since it was occasional it was also not collateral damage that affected him emotionally. 

The handler - There was a handler who got Raquel’s family out of their hiding place. Alicia claimed to have identified him based on Rio’s having sold out handlers. How would Rio have any idea whatsoever about the identity of someone else’s handler? They made a point of assigning everybody personal folders that included only their own handler. This potential treason of Rio’s was never confirmed as true or a bluff of Alicia’s, the handler was never mentioned again and the threat impacted nothing at all. 

Cincinnati - It was blatantly stupid that the police didn’t immediately start looking for this child to use as a rather powerful bargaining chip against BOTH his parents or to set them against one another. Arturo didn’t demand this, he didn’t mention it, it absolutely never came up even though everybody else’s family was dragged in as leverage. 

City names - This used to be a thing to protect the members’ identity from the police. Why Monica and Raquel got city names when it was public knowledge that they joined the group is beyond reason or explanation. I suppose it was just for the heck of it. The police also never went into the trouble of identifying the criminals and publishing this because that’s not interesting or action packed enough I suppose. 

Hostages - They were just completely unafraid and unaffected. When Mercedes stood up and clapped In protest during the first heist, it was an insanely big deal. Hostage management was a thing Berlin consciously dealt with. Now everybody openly opposed these dudes with guns and did whatever the hell the wanted without ever being found out. The captors acted like powerless high school teachers in an unruly school yard. I was also lost at what purpose they served as the group or the Professor never threatened them or used them as a shield against the police. They also had no labour as hostages did during the first heist since the professor had a whole team of fake hostages for any job in the bank. Overall the entire plan was based on having infinite resources rather than being clever, which is a great loophole for the writers. 

Pakistan - this army of plot devices was present or trackable whenever convenient. They couldn’t tap into the police system for a second time, but they could gather dig up Evidence for Rio’s story everybody believed in the first place. I’m not sure what was the purpose of them. 

There were several other smaller ones but these undermined the story the most In my eyes. 
 

 

and lastly, social issues 

Spoiler

Back in seasons 1-2 Nairobi and Tokio were loved, feared and respected members in the group and in the mint. Nobody objectified or patronized them for being women, they were after all just as dangerous and accomplished criminals as anybody else. But Netflix think they are obliged to step into the role of social justice warrior in every production, otherwise the audience will be displeased. The problem is that they do this in the most shallow, cartoonish and laughable way possible and almost always bite the effort in the arse with another not so progressive aspect of the production.
You can perfectly waste 10 minutes of screentime on Denver and Monica’s ‘can women go to war’ fight and Bogota and Palermo objectifying Nairobi and Tokio, only for them to be put in their place with 140-character  shut downs, but if you fail to give your female characters purpose and keep them in the story because they are someone’s girlfriends, you kinda bit yourself in the arse. The issue also never arises again once these guys are put in their places nor does it grow into a systematic old group - new group difference that causes internal problems. They are just Twitter offenses and twitter shutdowns so Netflix can tick it off their progressiveness checklist. 
 

In season 1-2 nobody ever bodyshamed or sexual orientation shamed another character. This is a recurring thing in seasons 3-4. I find it plausible that Netflix wanted to portray this as a negative role model and put it in the mouth of negative or grey characters. Nobody ever reacted to these things. Helsinki didn’t snap when they repeatedly called him fat, Palermo snapped unrelated to being insulted for his sexuality, so this name-calling was just there to elevate the linguistic value of the production (and thus teach it to the audience) and the intelligence level of characters. Because setting a positive example and leaving the group respectful  to one another as they had been in seasons 1-2 is just too subtle I guess. 

I have already touched on Manila as another failed attempt at real diversity. Just because you spend five minutes of screentime on her explaining her decision to Denver, she’s not a real character. She is an cardboard extra with little to no purpose who repeatedly fails at the one job she has. Again, merge her with Matias and give her something to do. Make her cause problems or better yet, make her solve problems instead of magical deus ex machinas. Make her prove herself in her new identity. Link this to the sexism issue if you are going to include that. 

And there’s Arturo the date rapist. Because sexual assault and molestation are bad and Netflix must show that to their stupid audience who doesn’t. What better way to do so than take an unloved character and turn him into a rapist out fo the blue. My god. 

If you are going to handle these complex issues at such schematic, checklist level and refuse to incorporate them into the story systematically so they have the weight and depth and layers they deserve, then don’t. Just leave it all out and show a positive example (or bring the character to life, whichever applies). Or have at it, but if you are going to have at it, then work on it.
 

And then sexism isn’t a two minute shutdown, but a serious ridge between two halves of the group. Body shaming makes someone snap, or is disproved by a vital twist that’s plausible because of that body type (remember when Helsinki held the door after the police break in with his physical strength so they could seal it? Something like that). The sexual orientation shaming, if we give this to Gandia, record it and publish it and use it to win the crowd against the homophobic “system”. Throw Arturo out of the bank with a cardboard in his neck saying he’s a date rapist advising the police. Or better yet, spare Arturo this ridiculous twist of character and have a group member molest hostages. Have the police find out and use it against the group. Cause a public outcry (and use the crowd) and make the group pass ethical judgement on the person. (remember when there was a heated argument about whether it’s right to sleep with hostages or not in seasons 1-2?) Just don’t make it all so painfully cartoonish, it’s downright offensive to these topics. 



 

Pfff. It was bad.