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redriver

Winter Fell?Again.

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Well it's been 5 years since we wandered down this track.It's still a bit snowy at Winterfell by the latest reports.

Here sits the last iteration of this thread.My abiding memory of it is the quality of discussion it generated.

Since then we haven't had the Winds of Winter published but we have had a few chapters of same and the World of Ice and Fire plus some Targaryen stuff.

So,yes what the hell is "Winter is coming" all about?

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Ah, those were the days. Read and enjoy, all of you and then carry on the discussion here :commie:

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Posted (edited)

I don't have the time to go through the whole 22 page thread, but I really liked your original post, a lot.  Since I haven't read the thread forgive me if I stumble upon well trodden ground.  

My first thought is that the Starks were originally Kings of Winter, not Summer.  So I'm not sure that the presence of a Stark bloodline is necessary to prevent a winter from occurring.  In fact, there is an interesting passage in ADWD that makes me wonder if once upon a time they could bring about an unusually harsh winter for their benefit.

Quote

When old King Edrick Stark had grown too feeble to defend his realm, the Wolf's Den was captured by slavers from the Stepstones.  They would brand their captives with hot irons and break them to the whip before shipping them off across the sea, and the same black stone walls bore witness.

"Then a long cruel winter fell," said Ser Bartimus.  "The White Knife froze hard, and even the firth was icing up.  The winds came howling from the north and drove them slavers inside to huddle round their fires, and whilst they warmed themselves the new king come down on them.  Brandon Stark this was, Edrick Snowbeard's great-grandson, him that men called Ice Eyes.  He took the Wolf's Den back, stripped the slavers naked, and gave them to the slaves he'd found chained up in the dungeons.  It's said they hung their entrails in the branches of the heart tree, as an offering to the gods.  The old gods, not these new ones from the south.  Your Seven don't know winter, and winter don't know them."

So we have a King of Winter, nicknamed Ice Eyes, who swoops down on White Harbor as the slavers' attention was diverted by the cruel winter winds.  

Now fast forward to the current events.  We have another winter harsh winter that appears after the marriage in front of Winterfell's Heart Tree of another "lord" who's eyes have been compared to ice:

Quote

Ramsay was clad in black and pink- black boots, black belt and scabbard, black leather jerkin over a pink velvet doublet slashed with dark red satin.  In his right ear gleamed a garnet cut in the shape of a drop of blood.  yet for all the splendor of his garb, he remained an ugly man, big-boned and sloped-shouldered, with a fleshiness to him that suggested that in later life he would run to fat.  His skin was pink and blotchy, his nose broad, his mouth small, his hair long and dark and dry.  His lips were wide and meaty, but the thing men noticed first about him were his eyes.  He had his lord father's eyes-small, close-set, queerly pale.  Ghost grey, some men called the shade, but in truth his eyes were all but colorless, like two chips of dirty ice.

Preston Jacobs had an interesting video, where he suggested that Roose Bolton was probably not Ramsay's father.  If you look at their description, it is remarkably different, other than the pale eyes.  However Preston brought up the fact that at least in real world genetics the condition that would cause pale eyes, is only inherited through the mother, not the father.  It's called ocular albinism, in other words being an albino in the eyes only.  It's inherited through the X-chromosome.  Which means if George is using a real world genetic condition, then his pale eyes were inherited from his mother and not his father, since he can only inherit a Y chromosome through his father.

So if true, I do wonder, if we'll later find out Ramsay's true lineage.  I remember in a long ago heresy thread, someone brought up the possibility of Ramsay being one of Craster's "sons" who was taken south of the Wall rather than being given over to the White Walkers.  And there are some parts of his description that is consistent with Craster, big boned, fleshy, and a broad nose are descriptions that fit both.  Perhaps we'll learn that Craster's bloodlines, or the bloodlines of Craster's original wife were somehow descended from a Stark offshoot, that carried with it the bloodlines from the Kings of Winter of old, which is perhaps lost in the current Stark bloodline.  

 

 

Edited by Frey family reunion

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On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 10:00 PM, Frey family reunion said:

I don't have the time to go through the whole 22 page thread, but I really liked your original post, a lot.  Since I haven't read the thread forgive me if I stumble upon well trodden ground.  

My first thought is that the Starks were originally Kings of Winter, not Summer.  So I'm not sure that the presence of a Stark bloodline is necessary to prevent a winter from occurring.  In fact, there is an interesting passage in ADWD that makes me wonder if once upon a time they could bring about an unusually harsh winter for their benefit.

So we have a King of Winter, nicknamed Ice Eyes, who swoops down on White Harbor as the slavers' attention was diverted by the cruel winter winds.  

Now fast forward to the current events.  We have another winter harsh winter that appears after the marriage in front of Winterfell's Heart Tree of another "lord" who's eyes have been compared to ice:

Preston Jacobs had an interesting video, where he suggested that Roose Bolton was probably not Ramsay's father.  If you look at their description, it is remarkably different, other than the pale eyes.  However Preston brought up the fact that at least in real world genetics the condition that would cause pale eyes, is only inherited through the mother, not the father.  It's called ocular albinism, in other words being an albino in the eyes only.  It's inherited through the X-chromosome.  Which means if George is using a real world genetic condition, then his pale eyes were inherited from his mother and not his father, since he can only inherit a Y chromosome through his father.

So if true, I do wonder, if we'll later find out Ramsay's true lineage.  I remember in a long ago heresy thread, someone brought up the possibility of Ramsay being one of Craster's "sons" who was taken south of the Wall rather than being given over to the White Walkers.  And there are some parts of his description that is consistent with Craster, big boned, fleshy, and a broad nose are descriptions that fit both.  Perhaps we'll learn that Craster's bloodlines, or the bloodlines of Craster's original wife were somehow descended from a Stark offshoot, that carried with it the bloodlines from the Kings of Winter of old, which is perhaps lost in the current Stark bloodline.  

 

 

@redriver too;

Ocular albinism does not result in pale, milk-white eyes like Roose has. It usually produces blue or sometimes red/pink eyes. Also, people with ocular albinism often suffer from near blindness, an inability to withstand normal light conditions and an inability to focus both eyes on the same thing. In fact, the incidence of any creature having white-colored irises but retaining normal vision is unheard of.

This is why I conclude that Roose Bolton is not entirely human. I believe he is the son of the Night's King who was rescued just before his sacrifice to the Others and has spent that last 8000 years or so fathering sons on human women, waiting until they come of age, and then killing them, flaying them, and donning their skins in a perfect likeness (except for the eyes) and then ruling as the new lord of whatever house he happens to occupy. This is why he is virtually hairless, can silence even big boisterous louts like the Greatjon with barely a whisper, and why he has to continually leach himself -- to prevent black blood from pooling in his hands and feet. It also explains how he knew right away that Ramsay was his son (the eyes, remember?) and why he never batted an eye when his bastard murdered his trueborn son -- since Dom was probably Brandon's son, not Roose's, and therefore was not suitable for skinchanging.

Brandon Ice-Eyes? That was probably Roose, or at least the thing that is now calling himself Roose.

So flame away at this theory, you won't be the first. But I'm throwing the long ball on this one. Roose is not human; he would be blind if he was.

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8 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

@redriver too;

Ocular albinism does not result in pale, milk-white eyes like Roose has. It usually produces blue or sometimes red/pink eyes. Also, people with ocular albinism often suffer from near blindness, an inability to withstand normal light conditions and an inability to focus both eyes on the same thing. In fact, the incidence of any creature having white-colored irises but retaining normal vision is unheard of.

This is why I conclude that Roose Bolton is not entirely human. I believe he is the son of the Night's King who was rescued just before his sacrifice to the Others and has spent that last 8000 years or so fathering sons on human women, waiting until they come of age, and then killing them, flaying them, and donning their skins in a perfect likeness (except for the eyes) and then ruling as the new lord of whatever house he happens to occupy. This is why he is virtually hairless, can silence even big boisterous louts like the Greatjon with barely a whisper, and why he has to continually leach himself -- to prevent black blood from pooling in his hands and feet. It also explains how he knew right away that Ramsay was his son (the eyes, remember?) and why he never batted an eye when his bastard murdered his trueborn son -- since Dom was probably Brandon's son, not Roose's, and therefore was not suitable for skinchanging.

Brandon Ice-Eyes? That was probably Roose, or at least the thing that is now calling himself Roose.

So flame away at this theory, you won't be the first. But I'm throwing the long ball on this one. Roose is not human; he would be blind if he was.

I don't think Roose is this creature which lives for thousands of years. However, I actually do believe there is a chance he is a Night's King's descendant. It is quite possible that one of the latter's children with that Other woman managed to survive, or be taken care of, and create House Bolton. Plus, Roose, along with Euron, Gregor, etc., is in that category of people who prefer silence ("A peaceful land, a quiet people", ship with mutes actually called Silence, etc.), a group that according to Melisandre, are loyal to the Others. This makes actual sense, even though Melisandre can be wrong at times. He is weakening the North's power, the first place where the Others will hit. He sends people to die on useless missions. Killed the people who rebuilt Winterfell for no reason. Obliterated several thousands of people on a single wedding night. Willingly or not, he is a servant of Others, that's for sure. He has no love for living, talking people, for certain.

As for the skinchanging. We don't know whether the Boltons can do actual skinchanging (not only literally wearing people's skins) or not. Roose loves dogs, according to Catelyn. Ramsay hunts people with dogs. Is it just the fact that he is training them that makes him successful? Why would he enjoy so much hunting people with his dogs? Only because he is a psychopath? Or is it him warging into dogs when he hunts women down? Maybe the Boltons can skinchange, after all. 

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On 4/17/2018 at 8:00 AM, redriver said:

Well it's been 5 years since we wandered down this track.It's still a bit snowy at Winterfell by the latest reports.

Here sits the last iteration of this thread.My abiding memory of it is the quality of discussion it generated.

Since then we haven't had the Winds of Winter published but we have had a few chapters of same and the World of Ice and Fire plus some Targaryen stuff.

So,yes what the hell is "Winter is coming" all about?

I read the OP from the thread. A great read. I never thought of Winterfell in that way, yet it's so obvious. Might be you are right on that one. Probably yes. 

Anyway, I don't think that Starks can prevent Winter from coming, only by staying in Winterfell. Also, the Others seemed to be around even when the entire Stark family was still in Winterfell at the beginning. 

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