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Darth Richard II

Rothfuss XIV: The Slow Regard of Luna Lovegood

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Not 100 percent sure but I was under the impression the way the Expanse novels are split is one author writes some POVs and the other writes the remaining ones.

That  being said, I agree with Krakken above. I love to shit on Rothfuss as much as the next hater and I think he's kinda a terrible person, but jeez, it's starting to get a little overboard, even for me.

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3 hours ago, Zorral said:

I cannot verify any of this, as, obviously, I didn't record these f-2-f conversations that took place at the e-in-chief's dinner table -- or was it in the living room right before the dinner was served, which was cooked by a mutual friend visiting up from New Orleans who brought all the local items on the menu with him?

I don't have the jiffy bag with the house's mailing label-- or the ms itself -- discarding that when they sent the book itself. Recall how long ago it was published?  (And now, of course, if I still had it, I could sell that ms . . . .)

When this happened, my own professional participation in that world was on the cusp of being left behind, due to my own lack of interest in it, provoked by certain changes in both the consumers' and professionals' ways of doing thing, while I got passionate about what is now my profession, thus the opportunity opened up to go there, and got very, very, very busy.

But I participated as a professional in the sf/f for long enough to know everybody at that level in the days when these events took place.  I still occasionally encounter the publisher figures in these particular events due to their personal relationships with others who have professional relationships in the field in which I work now.  So that is how I learned of their participation in the second book, and their despair that there will ever be a third.

All I could do is include more details but I'm not going there. Those would be no more proof on the internet than 'he said," than what was already provided. So I don't I feel wronged that you choose to believe this didn't happen.

To be clear, I am not at all saying that you're making stuff up for any reason, just that it's a unique problem of this kind of discussion.

 

Same thing happens in music, right? There are many cases of alleged geniuses who couldn't really deliver more than one record and yet that one record might be an all-time classic, regardless of who really deserved the bulk of the credit for the creation. 

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1 hour ago, Vaughn said:

I agree that modern fiction largely has always been author as individual and have generally found author team up books to be less than the sum of their parts.  But it's illustrative that (cherry picking alert) JA Corey has been able to keep their story moving forward in a way that Martin and Rothfuss haven't. I'm a little surprised it's not done more often. Like one writer is the plot/narrative writer and another is the details/characterization writer, etc...  Especially in genre where the expectations are usually more pragmatic than some Man Booker winner in high falutin' literature. 

The quality of writing in JA Corey is much lower. Not as much foreshadowing. Emotions are explained. All motivations of characters are fully explained. No mystery..

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I only read the first Expanse book (of which I liked 50% quite a lot and found the other 50% a drag to read through but the world-building was certainly interesting throughout) but if the rest of the books are like that, yeah, it's aiming at much less immersion, it's much more action driven than character driven. Also, yes, my understanding is that Abraham and Franck divide up POVs and kick them back and forth rather than one handling plot and the other handling character or whatever...

In any case, I'm not sure of any writing pairs in the epic or high fantasy arena that have been especially successful over the long run. Hickman and Weis is the main one I can think of, and those are books that do not really stand the test of time, IMO.

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7 minutes ago, Ran said:

I only read the first Expanse book (of which I liked 50% quite a lot and found the other 50% a drag to read through but the world-building was certainly interesting throughout) but if the rest of the books are like that, yeah, it's aiming at much less immersion, it's much more action driven than character driven. Also, yes, my understanding is that Abraham and Franck divide up POVs and kick them back and forth rather than one handling plot and the other handling character or whatever...

In any case, I'm not sure of any writing pairs in the epic or high fantasy arena that have been especially successful over the long run. Hickman and Weis is the main one I can think of, and those are books that do not really stand the test of time, IMO.

The attacks on Mormons were quite relentless

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4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

OK, I know I should not engage here, but I'm going to. What the FUCK are you talking about?

the expanse novels. First one in particular

 

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3 minutes ago, lysmonger said:


the expanse novels. First one in particular

It's not anti-Mormon at all. You have characters expressing views about them being crazy organized religious types, but that's characters, not authorial views. Per Daniel Abraham, they were glad to hear from Mormons that they enjoyed their depiction of them in the book, as they had intended it to be respectful.

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Just now, Ran said:

It's not anti-Mormon at all. You have characters expressing views about them being crazy organized religious types, but that's characters, not authorial views. Per Daniel Abraham, they were glad to hear from Mormons that they enjoyed their depiction of them in the book, as they had intended it to be respectful.

I do remember it was the characters who said it. But it was the main characters chanting they are religious crazies and everyone in the room readily agreeing. 

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1 minute ago, lysmonger said:

I do remember it was the characters who said it. But it was the main characters chanting they are religious crazies and everyone in the room readily agreeing. 

This is a place where readers need to be discerning.

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2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Hey, I still reread Death Gate every few years! But, uh, yeah.

Best name ever for a dog. 

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3 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Hey, I still reread Death Gate every few years! But, uh, yeah.

Death Gate Cycle does not get enough love, probably because Weiss and Hickman are considered hacks with some of their other series.  It's also long and you have to adjust to a new world each book.  I remember reading it close to when it first came out,  along with Tad William's Memory Sorrow and Thorn, and the first Wheel of Time books.  In retrospect, I'd put it below MST but well above the WoT in quality.  If you haven't read it give it a try.

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2 hours ago, unJon said:

Best name ever for a dog. 

Ha!  I know when I first encountered Septon Meribald and Dog, with Meribald's physical description Alfred-like, I wondered if it was a homage to Alfred and Dog.  Don't think it was pointed enough though. Although now I think on it, that weird almost dance like route to the Quiet Isle...  Hmm

Edited by Lady Barbrey

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11 hours ago, Zorral said:

 

But still the show runner cannot compose, record, dub, etc. the music and sound for the images. Not to mention the special effects, etc.

Writing books -- an editor has to have a really strong core to work with, which you will know what is meant when looking at the list of the authors an editor like Perkins worked with.  Perkins didn't write the text, he whittled and sculpted it.

Given the amount of money involved, I have to imagine the publishing houses would be more than willing to throw gobs of more “hands on” editing at this situation (or Martin) to drive it to conclusion. 

Why isn’t this happening? Are they (Martin and rothfuss) so big that they can tell the publisher to screw off and wait? But really, why would Rothfuss do this if he was so willing to accept the help before?

Something doesn’t add up. 

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Rothfuss had an idea how to write the second..There was a general storyline that needed  a few extra things...

 

Could be the publishers are already writing it, and Rothfuss is just waiting for their feedback...

 

 

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19 hours ago, Vaughn said:

To be clear, I am not at all saying that you're making stuff up for any reason, just that it's a unique problem of this kind of discussion.

 

Same thing happens in music, right? There are many cases of alleged geniuses who couldn't really deliver more than one record and yet that one record might be an all-time classic, regardless of who really deserved the bulk of the credit for the creation. 

Yah, generally, whoever was to get credit was Quincy Jones, and he always got the credit.  And the Big Bux! :thumbsup:

BTW -- that there would be side-eyeism toward my current riff on the subject at hand, that would show a healthy internet experience skeptism if you ask me -- especially as there's no way for me to prove it either. So I can't get even in the least in a twist about someone not just jumping in with thank you for the information!  I probably would keep one eye open wide too, if I were on the receiving side of the info, because, ya, I can see how plausible it is, but hey -- just one person who I don't even know anything about is saying it.

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8 hours ago, lysmonger said:

Rothfuss had an idea how to write the second..There was a general storyline that needed  a few extra things...

 

Could be the publishers are already writing it, and Rothfuss is just waiting for their feedback...

 

 

I dunno. 

Rothfuss was obviously FOS when he made his infamous "good to go" proclamation all those years back, but he has maintained that he drafted an ending long ago and [at least at one point] knew where he was going with the story. I would be very surprised to learn that book 3 hasn't at least been plotted out to the point where ghost writers couldn't help fill in the gaps.

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