Jump to content
Darth Richard II

Rothfuss XIV: The Slow Regard of Luna Lovegood

Recommended Posts

It's a sad post by Pat, and I agree with those who say we should stop litigating the past.  I think we all have a responsibility to refrain from expressing public views which individually or in aggregate are contributing to someone's unhappiness while not achieving any constructive end.  

I have evolved in my relationship with authors whose work I admire and whose output has dried up in the last few years: Martin, Rothfuss, Lynch, Susanna Clarke, Hilary Mantel, Vikram Seth, Bakker, Butcher (to some extent each).  Largely because of Lynch's openness, I don't feel let down or frustrated by missed deadlines or misleading statements about when the book will be published.  And I'm willing to extend the same benefit of doubt I grant Lynch to all of them without second-guessing their justifications.

At the same time, I don't feel personally invested in Rothfuss' world in the same way.  I don't recommend his books, and I won't spend time on a reread if the next book is published.  And if I have to choose between a Rothfuss book or an Abercrombie/Sanderson book, I'll opt for the latter.  That's a significant change because I have read NOTW and WMF 5-6 times each, and I haven't done that for any book by Abercrombie or Sanderson. 

Pat doesn't need us of course, he has Lin-Manuel Miranda, as well as Jo Walton and many others.  But in a world in which so much excellent creative content is being produced in so many different formats he may end up being forgotten despite having the innate talent of an Asimov, Herbert or Martin.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

But in a world in which so much excellent creative content is being produced in so many different formats he may end up being forgotten despite having the innate talent of an Asimov, Herbert or Martin.  

Seems unlikely to me. LMM is the golden boy right now, and by virtue of his involvement the movie should reach a very wide audience. Assuming the movie gets made/released, Pat's ticket has been punched IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

It's a sad post by Pat, and I agree with those who say we should stop litigating the past.  I think we all have a responsibility to refrain from expressing public views which individually or in aggregate are contributing to someone's unhappiness while not achieving any constructive end.  

 

I'd agree with a less strong version of this statement. I think it's OK for you and I to have a discussion about the things Pat has said and done, even if the conclusion is a less than flattering portrayal of Pat. The example that leaps to mind occurred less than a year ago when he gave an interview where he suggested that people who ask for updates on book 3 should fuck off and die. Would our discussion be productive? Almost assuredly no. (though what message board discussions are?) Would it contribute to Pat's unhappiness if he read that we came to a negative conclusion? Perhaps. Still, I don't think we have a responsibility to avoid the discussion. (That being said, proactively pushing unsolicited feedback to him is uncalled for.)

TL;DR: People should not be reaching out to him with things that they know will make him unhappy, but it's not our responsibility to make the internet a criticism free space for Pat either.

 

Edited by Ninefingers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

 

I have evolved in my relationship with authors whose work I admire and whose output has dried up in the last few years: Martin, Rothfuss, Lynch, Susanna Clarke, Hilary Mantel, Vikram Seth, Bakker, Butcher (to some extent each).  Largely because of Lynch's openness, I don't feel let down or frustrated by missed deadlines or misleading statements about when the book will be published.  And I'm willing to extend the same benefit of doubt I grant Lynch to all of them without second-guessing their justifications.

At the same time, I don't feel personally invested in Rothfuss' world in the same way.  I don't recommend his books, and I won't spend time on a reread if the next book is published.  And if I have to choose between a Rothfuss book or an Abercrombie/Sanderson book, I'll opt for the latter.  That's a significant change because I have read NOTW and WMF 5-6 times each, and I haven't done that for any book by Abercrombie or Sanderson. 

Pat doesn't need us of course, he has Lin-Manuel Miranda, as well as Jo Walton and many others.  But in a world in which so much excellent creative content is being produced in so many different formats he may end up being forgotten despite having the innate talent of an Asimov, Herbert or Martin.  

When I heard that Miranda had optioned Kingkiller I was relieved. I had not enjoyed Hamilton and couldn’t understand the level of adulation thrown its way. I put it down to cultural differences (I’m Irish originally). The fact that he thought that something as unwieldy, confused, bloated and obviously out of control as the kingkiller chronicles (especially the second book) would make a good tv show confirmed for me that his judgement is not what most think.

I also think you are missing the point about rothfuss, I.e. the trolling of fans, etc etc which the other authors you’ve mentioned didn’t indulge in. (unless you believe as some do that bakkers entire series was one giant trolling! Or his AMA)

I wouldn’t be surprised if the damage his behaviour has caused to his reputation among the fantasy consuming community is contributing to his current feelings of despondency. 

Also thanks for reminding me that we haven’t had anything from sussanah Clarke in so long. Loved jonathan strange. So original and well written. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

Seems unlikely to me. LMM is the golden boy right now, and by virtue of his involvement the movie should reach a very wide audience. Assuming the movie gets made/released, Pat's ticket has been punched IMO.

I agree, but I think the box office will be the real test, no?  The Dark Materials series is wonderful, but the first movie didn't do well, and that was it for any sequels for a long time (since nothing is ever truly dead in showbiz, I believe it is being resurrected in some form now).  Same for the Lorien legacies books.  I suspect Pat will get rich(er) if the movie gets made, but there's a gap between the movie getting made and Game of Thrones like success (or even Magicians like success). 

9 hours ago, Ninefingers said:

I'd agree with a less strong version of this statement. I think it's OK for you and I to have a discussion about the things Pat has said and done, even if the conclusion is a less than flattering portrayal of Pat. The example that leaps to mind occurred less than a year ago when he gave an interview where he suggested that people who ask for updates on book 3 should fuck off and die. Would our discussion be productive? Almost assuredly no. (though what message board discussions are?) Would it contribute to Pat's unhappiness if he read that we came to a negative conclusion? Perhaps. Still, I don't think we have a responsibility to avoid the discussion. (That being said, proactively pushing unsolicited feedback to him is uncalled for.)

TL;DR: People should not be reaching out to him with things that they know will make him unhappy, but it's not our responsibility to make the internet a criticism free space for Pat either.

 

I agree. Tbh, I haven't read these trolling comments, but the most charitable explanation I can give is that the constant repetition of this question by email, in person and online -- many I am sure from newbies who are discovering the books for the first time and asking innocently --  is leading him to act out in unattractive ways.  I don't think we as fans quite get the constancy of this pressure, and I think a constructive thing we can do in aggregate is look past this bad behaviour.   I think he should apologise for his comments as well.  

The MOST constructive thing for Pat would be to get a writing partner or maybe even a small team to help write the book, assuming a major cause for the delays are his own procrastinating-perfectionist tendencies.  The best way to counter that is to have an iterative and interactive process, where someone else is given instructions and attempts to execute, and Pat can be the final editor/rewriter of content.  It's similar to the way some lawyers write briefs, which sometimes go through 20-30 drafts.  

58 minutes ago, Valandil said:

I also think you are missing the point about rothfuss, I.e. the trolling of fans, etc etc which the other authors you’ve mentioned didn’t indulge in. (unless you believe as some do that bakkers entire series was one giant trolling! Or his AMA)

I wouldn’t be surprised if the damage his behaviour has caused to his reputation among the fantasy consuming community is contributing to his current feelings of despondency. 

Also thanks for reminding me that we haven’t had anything from sussanah Clarke in so long. Loved jonathan strange. So original and well written. 

I see these comments have salted wounds in a way I hadn't quite realised.  Best thing for him is to apologise no?

If you liked Jonathan Strange, check out the Ladies of Grace Adieu.   I believe there were plans for a sequel focused on Childermass and other characters, but those may never come to fruition... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

The MOST constructive thing for Pat would be to get a writing partner or maybe even a small team to help write the book, assuming a major cause for the delays are his own procrastinating-perfectionist tendencies.  The best way to counter that is to have an iterative and interactive process, where someone else is given instructions and attempts to execute, and Pat can be the final editor/rewriter of content.  It's similar to the way some lawyers write briefs, which sometimes go through 20-30 drafts.  

I think this is an excellent idea actually, and maybe not just for him but also for some other prolific authors that have come to a screeching halt ( as Rothfuss clearly has). Such a team would be a big help to him I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/15/2018 at 10:38 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

I agree. Tbh, I haven't read these trolling comments, but the most charitable explanation I can give is that the constant repetition of this question by email, in person and online -- many I am sure from newbies who are discovering the books for the first time and asking innocently --  is leading him to act out in unattractive ways.  I don't think we as fans quite get the constancy of this pressure, and I think a constructive thing we can do in aggregate is look past this bad behaviour.   I think he should apologise for his comments as well.  

The MOST constructive thing for Pat would be to get a writing partner or maybe even a small team to help write the book, assuming a major cause for the delays are his own procrastinating-perfectionist tendencies.  The best way to counter that is to have an iterative and interactive process, where someone else is given instructions and attempts to execute, and Pat can be the final editor/rewriter of content.  It's similar to the way some lawyers write briefs, which sometimes go through 20-30 drafts.  

 

I largely agree with you, but I suspect (and I acknowledge that I'm speaking though the lens of my own experience and have no knowledge of Pat's reality) that the reason the questions about progress bother him so much is due to feelings of guilt. When I have missed deadlines through no fault of my own, or when I knew I was giving the very best effort I could I've never felt bad about it. OTOH, when I know that my effort has been subpar, I feel hugely guilty. Every question then becomes not a reminder that it's not done, but that I'm being irresponsible. Again, I have no way of knowing if this is Pat's reality, but it wouldn't at all surprise me to find out it was.

As for the writing team, I'd guess it wouldn't help that much. I don't think he's having trouble cleaning up or tightening language. My guess is that he wants to make major changes, but due to the narrative structure (in flashback, lots of foreshadowing) making these changes and having things hold together is tough and he's not sure how to do it. So even with the writing team, I think he'd struggle to tell them what to do. Again, just guessing.

cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

 

I agree, but I think the box office will be the real test, no?  The Dark Materials series is wonderful, but the first movie didn't do well, and that was it for any sequels for a long time (since nothing is ever truly dead in showbiz, I believe it is being resurrected in some form now).

 

His Dark Materials is being made into a TV series by the BBC and New Line. It's just started filming. Interestingly, this new project (which HBO and Netflix are bidding over for the US rights) has been deliberately made in such a way that it's far less dependent on American viewers in case there's another boycott by religious wingnuts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Werthead said:

His Dark Materials is being made into a TV series by the BBC and New Line. It's just started filming. Interestingly, this new project (which HBO and Netflix are bidding over for the US rights) has been deliberately made in such a way that it's far less dependent on American viewers in case there's another boycott by religious wingnuts.

Excellent news.  I watched the movie last night and I felt that it had almost too many stars (Nicole Kidman, Daniel Craig, Ian McKellan as the voice of Iorek Byrison).  By spending so much money, they really needed a killing at the Box Office to justify a sequel.  If they can do this to the standard of the Beeb's adaption of Jonathan Strange, it will be excellent. 

Back to Rothfuss ---> has anyone here read the Slow Regard of Silent Things or Jo Walton's summary/analysis? I found part 1 of her posting, but not the rest on Tor's website.  I am curious if everyone agrees that Auri is a shaper, and if so on what basis. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

 

Back to Rothfuss ---> has anyone here read the Slow Regard of Silent Things or Jo Walton's summary/analysis? I found part 1 of her posting, but not the rest on Tor's website.  I am curious if everyone agrees that Auri is a shaper, and if so on what basis. 

I don't believe Jo finished her reread/speculative summary - I think she got busy with other things.

As for Auri,

Spoiler

 

I think people are pretty much agreed that she's a shaper.

"Auri stood, and in the circle of her golden hair she grinned and brought the weight of her desire down full upon the world. 

And all things shook. And all things knew her will. And all things bent to please her."

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/3/2018 at 8:20 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Wow, he just can’t say “I was wrong” can he?

Pat Rothfuss definetly doesnt have much situational awareness. He cant spend any normal time as a nobody anymore.  He spends his time writing, playing with his kids, and posting on social media. 3 hours on twitter -the angry leftist writers echo chamber.  Hundreds of posts each hour  detailing how the republicans are destroying the world. It's a drug. Lets add in there Pat has really really bad adhd/slightly dyslexic and he loves to play videogames.  Im surprised Pat can even blog a paragraph let alone write a novel. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2018 at 1:03 AM, lysmonger said:

Pat Rothfuss definetly doesnt have much situational awareness. He cant spend any normal time as a nobody anymore.  He spends his time writing, playing with his kids, and posting on social media. 3 hours on twitter -the angry leftist writers echo chamber.  Hundreds of posts each hour  detailing how the republicans are destroying the world. It's a drug. Lets add in there Pat has really really bad adhd/slightly dyslexic and he loves to play videogames.  Im surprised Pat can even blog a paragraph let alone write a novel. 

 

 

From Robin Hobb on blogging way back when(she probably needs to update it to say "twitter"):

Quote

It was a dark and stormy night. The chime rang on my computer, indicating that a new email had arrived. I peered at it through my bi-focals. It was from a fledgling writer I had recently befriended. With a trembling finger, I double clicked my mouse to unfurl the missive upon my screen.

What I saw filled my heart with dread. Her letter was brief. It said she had finally caved in to reader pressure and was going to keep a blog. I was immediately struck with a lurch of dread. Not another one. Not another writer falling to the ever insatiable Live Journal and the tawdry lure of the blog!

A gleaming blue link in her letter flashed seductively, inviting me to visit her new LiveJournal blog. A single click was all that stood between me and the anti-fiction! 

With a small shriek of terror, I hit delete. Then I carefully wiped my mouse down with alcohol before blessing myself from a small bottle of White-out that I keep on my desk. (Sometimes, only the old remedies will work.) Delete it from my mind, I beseeched my Muse. Edit it from my awareness and preserve me from like temptations. My friend had fallen to the dark side. I knew that I had to forget her, to dismiss her from the ranks of promising young writers and somehow soldier on without her.

In the next moment, my conscience smote me. I was abandoning her to her fate. Yet didn’t I deserve at least part of the blame for her fall? Oh, my dear young writer, didn't anyone tell you that Live Journal is actually where the Living Dead of the writing world are created?

There are many kinds of vampire in this old world. Some suck ambition and confidence from you. Others press white teeth to your throat and actually draw off your blood. But give me teeth at my throat, real teeth, a thousand times over before I am left to face alone the specter of a LiveJournal Blog of my own.

For once a writer has entered that realm, there is no turning back. T’is true, so sadly true. Soon when your precious hour of free time arrives and you sit down to write, you will think to yourself, 'oh, but I must do my blog first.' And you will go there, and dutifully blog. At first, you will notice nothing amiss. It is pleasant to receive the daily dose of recognition from your readers, the gratifying feedback, and the responses that invite a response from you.

But my dear friends, it is NO COINCIDENCE that blog and blood begin with the same three letters! 

Daily you will rise and go to your keyboard. You will blog. And you will read what people write in response to your blog. And you will write responses to what they have written. And then you will visit the blogs of those who have responded to you. And you will write pleasant and cheery comments there. And then you will go back to your own blog, to see if anyone has responded to your responses. And then you will go back to the blogs of others, to see if anyone has responded to your responses to them.

And the clock will suddenly say midnight. And you will look at your manuscript in consternation. How can it be that there are no new pages, not even a paragraph? Where has the time vanished? Why are your hands so weary?

Too weary to type so much as a sentence of your book.

Tomorrow, you will say to yourself. Tomorrow I will start afresh, and I will type all day to make up for the pages I have not written today. With the best of intentions, you will go to sleep.

But on the morrow, when you wake and rise, you will not write. You will blog.

So it will go. Slowly. Inevitably.

When you sit down to write, try as you might, you will blog instead. Blogging is easier. The gratification is immediate. When you look at the empty screen that demands a disciplined scene between three-dimensional characters, you will say to yourself, “It’s too hard just to start cold. I’ll warm up by blogging. Just a little bit.”

And again, when you look at the clock, it will say midnight. Another precious writing day will have flown. You will assuage your guilt by saying, “But I did write today. I wrote in my blog. And is it not important that I connect with my readers there, that I share daily news with my peers? It’s important to my career, is it not, to be visible on the Internet?

Every day, when you try to sit down to write on your book, you will notice a strange weariness in your fingers. You mind will go blank as you look at the blank screen. And then, almost of their own volition, you fingers will dance on the keys, typing in the dreadful http://www.livejournal.com Soon you will add it to your favorites, so that the ravenous time leech is but a single mouse click away. Day my day, key press by key press, it will draw you down into the hell from which so few writers return.

Look at your hands, where your wrists hover so lightly above your keyboard. What are those minute, strange marks there, on your pulse point? Could they be punctures the size of a pixel?

The nights and the days, the hours in which you used to write, edit and rewrite your deathless prose will slowly, drip by drip, character by character, key press by key press, be drained into Live Journal. The blogs there will grow fat and swollen, round bellied with the creativity they have siphoned off from your fingertips. The other trapped writers there will clutch at you with bloodless fingers, offering you feedback, praise for your advice, tales of their new kittens and recipes for turnovers. And you will read them all, every word, filling your mind with the daily doings of those other poor damned souls. And you will write responses. And when night falls, you will think that you have been a writer today.

But you have merely blogged. 

In the deep of night, you will awake, suddenly knowing how you should have responded to that troll. In the darkness, you will stumble to your computer, and with trembling fingers, push the ‘on’ button. In the dim flickering of the monitor, your fingers will settle on the keys. You will type and type and type. No fiction will emerge.

But Live Journal will feed.

You will not even recall that this was the day of your deadline. You will not think of the white-faced editor who wrings her hands haplessly and asks, “But when? When? When will the book be done?”

To which you will have no answer. 

Blog. Blog. Blog. Blog. Say it aloud. Doesn't it sound like the slow drip of creative blood onto the uncaring Internet?

My dear friend, writer of writers, esteemed teller of tales that no one else can tell, beware! Blogging is not writing. It masquerades as such, t’is true. You sit at the desk, your fingers dance their blind and clever dance across the keyboard, words appear upon the screen, and oh, it feels like writing, like the easiest sort of writing, the writing that needs not to be justified on the morrow. It is the writing that makes the idle stupidity of the day something of worth, for has it not been written down, have not readers shared it and responded to it? Have you not been recognized, flattered and preened for today’s bon mot? Is not that what the writer lives for?

Remember that you are a storyteller, skilled in the seemingly effortless courtship of the story. You have danced the dance of a thousand veils, revealing to your rapt reader a world, page by page by fluttering page. You have drawn the reader in, stripped him of his doubts, suspended his belief and beguiled him into living in your dream with you. You have left him spent upon the shores of your world, heard him mutter to himself, “I can’t believe it’s over. When will she finish her next book?”

This is not a feat that is accomplished thoughtlessly. 

Ah, my writer friend. It is harsh but it must be said. Compared to the studied seduction of the novel, blogging is literary pole dancing. Anyone can stand naked in the window of the public’s eye, anyone can twitch and writhe and emote over the package that was not delivered, the dinner that burned, the friend who forgot your birthday. That is not fiction. That is life, and we all have one. Blogging condemns us to live everyone else’s tedious day as well as our own.

You and I, we are meant to write and edit and write again. We are meant to agonize over a verb, to dig in the day’s discarded fragments to recover that one phrase worth saving, and to put all those days of writing into one coherent whole, which, graced with covers, will reside on a bookshelf, not for moments but for years. We are meant to write stories in which events have meaning and lives make sense, to make up for the nonsense and drudgery of reality.

Oh, my dearest writer friend. Be strong. Resist the siren call.

Don’t blog. Write.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/13/2018 at 12:03 PM, Zorral said:

Rothfuss's depression began long before the current social, civil, climatic and political unpleasantness, but I've been thinking a great deal about its effect upon fiction writers.

These are terrible times, which, for many, and not only writers and artists, but everyone of decency, seem to demand something from us more than our long-held, more simple ambitions and aspirations for ourselves and our lives.

What that should be?  It seems as though for a deeply empathic and sympathetic cohort, one thing that happens is that writing fiction just doesn't seem worth it, that there are more important and significant things we should and could be doing, yet we're blocking ourselves from recognizing that, which leads to paralysis = depression.

I dunno.  These are just thoughts I've been exploring since the campaign of 2015.

I don't buy it. In the 1960's, a time much more fraught with ACTUAL violence, the arts communities (literary, music, film) rose to the challenge and produced critical works.

Now we have narcissistic 'artists' whinging and whining about things.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/13/2018 at 9:30 PM, unJon said:

I miss @sologdin  

I've been gone a while (fractured orbital socket, staples in head, surgery, etc.). 

Is he just taking a hiatus?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/14/2018 at 11:46 PM, Ninefingers said:

Seems unlikely to me. LMM is the golden boy right now, and by virtue of his involvement the movie should reach a very wide audience. Assuming the movie gets made/released, Pat's ticket has been punched IMO.

LMM was the golden boy two years ago. 

This may end up in development hell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2018 at 2:03 AM, lysmonger said:

Pat Rothfuss definetly doesnt have much situational awareness. He cant spend any normal time as a nobody anymore.  He spends his time writing, playing with his kids, and posting on social media. 3 hours on twitter -the angry leftist writers echo chamber.  Hundreds of posts each hour  detailing how the republicans are destroying the world. It's a drug. Lets add in there Pat has really really bad adhd/slightly dyslexic and he loves to play videogames.  Im surprised Pat can even blog a paragraph let alone write a novel. 

 

 

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.  Alex Jones and so very many more -- who didn't go quite so far as to get themselves banned.  Or else are Donald Trump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Crowjack said:

I've been gone a while (fractured orbital socket, staples in head, surgery, etc.). 

Is he just taking a hiatus?

He quit due to relationship stuff that I don't know much about cause I uh don't participate in the relationship thread but last I heard he patched all that up and still pops in now and then, though he hasn't posted in a long time. I see him on goodreads occasionally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya know, I have a newfound respect for Robin Hobb. Won't crack her fiction again, but that entry should be mandatory curriculum for writers in freshmen college courses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/12/2018 at 4:01 PM, Crowjack said:

LMM was the golden boy two years ago. 

This may end up in development hell.

Its being released on Showtime. Not hbo or cinemax but Showtime.

I feel though with Rothfuss's inclinations it will turn into having many of the tropes of the Last Jedi

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, lysmonger said:

Its being released on Showtime. Not hbo or cinemax but Showtime.

I feel though with Rothfuss's inclinations it will turn into having many of the tropes of the Last Jedi

 

That hurts my brain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×