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Walder Frey says that he hosted three Kings at the Twins. Who were they?

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1 hour ago, Canon Claude said:

It could only be Robert, Aerys, and Jahaerys II. He’d be too young to play host to Aegon V

Walder was 51 when Aegon died and 25 when he was crowned.

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Walder Frey was born in 208 AC.  We don't know how old he was when he became the Lord of the Crossing.  During his adult life there were four kings:  Aegon V (233-259), Jaeherys II (259-262), Aerys II (262-283), Robert I (283-298)

My guess would be that he hosted Aegon V, Aerys II and Robert I. He was 51 by the time Egg died and Jaeherys only ruled for three years after that with poor health a major distraction in the form of the War of the Ninepenny Kings.

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13 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

Walder Frey was born in 208 AC.  We don't know how old he was when he became the Lord of the Crossing.  During his adult life there were four kings:  Aegon V (233-259), Jaeherys II (259-262), Aerys II (262-283), Robert I (283-298)

My guess would be that he hosted Aegon V, Aerys II and Robert I. He was 51 by the time Egg died and Jaeherys only ruled for three years after that with poor health a major distraction in the form of the War of the Ninepenny Kings.

Yeah

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When did Lord Walder say that?

Could he be counting the Five Kings before they declared themselves Kings? So, any of the below:

- Robb?

- Balon?

- Stannis?

- Joffrey?

- Renly?

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15 minutes ago, TMIFairy said:

When did Lord Walder say that?

AGOT, when Cat is negotiating to cross the bridge.

"Now my bastards presume to teach me courtesy," Lord Walder complained. "I'll speak any way I like, damn you. I've had three kings to guest in my life, and queens as well, do you think I require lessons from the likes of you, Ryger?

The queen line is interesting as for me it suggests there has been a royal visit of a queen without her husband, I'm guessing that would either be Bertha, if she survived Summerhall, or her daughter Shaera when Walder married his Blackwood bride

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1 hour ago, Bernie Mac said:

AGOT, when Cat is negotiating to cross the bridge.

"Now my bastards presume to teach me courtesy," Lord Walder complained. "I'll speak any way I like, damn you. I've had three kings to guest in my life, and queens as well, do you think I require lessons from the likes of you, Ryger?

Thanks. So this narrows down the field to the last three Targs and Robert, plus possibly - and at a stretch - Joff and/or Balon.

Aegon, Aerys and Robert most likely, then.

As to Queens (plural noted) - I'd wager Betha and Cersei.

Why Cersei? Lannisport to Seagard by ship, wagon/pallanquin to Twins, barge down to Saltapns/Maidenpool, ship to KL is faster than going by land. Beats the "around Dorne" route too.

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5 minutes ago, TMIFairy said:

As to Queens (plural noted) - I'd wager Betha and Cersei.

Why Cersei?

Cersei probably came with Robert when he visited.

For what it's worth, the way he said "queens as well" in that throwaway manner suggests to me that he was referring to queens who accompanied kings. 

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Chances are that Walder Frey ends up being connected rather intimately to Dunk & Egg later in his life. Ha named one of his elder sons Aenys, and that guy named his sons Aegon and Rhaegar (and Rhaegar named his eldest son Robert ;-)). Stevron Frey also named his second son Aegon (Jinglebell the lackwit) and a daughter Maegelle.

All that could imply that young Lord Walder Frey was rather close (or interested in sucking up to) King Aegon V. Chances are not that great that he was already Lord of the Crossing under King Maekar, although it is not that impossible. We don't know how long his father lived.

One could speculate that Walder aimed at becoming the Lord Paramount of the Trident in the wake of the Celia Tully marriage debacle, siding with King Aegon V against Lord Tully in whatever conflict they had after Jaehaerys spurned his Tully bride in favor of his own sister Shaera.

Who the three kings were that stayed at the Twins is unclear. Likely indeed Robert (perhaps before or after the campaign against the Ironborn), Aegon V, and Aerys II (although Aerys II wasn't exactly that much of a travel king - but he was more agile during this first decade as king, and he could have done a progress in the Riverlands on the way to or back from his visits in the West).

But if Walder became Lord of the Crossing in the 220s the first king he hosted could indeed have been Maekar.

Betha Blackwood is likely a queen that stayed at the Twins, too, being a Riverlander herself, and not unlikely to visit her relation (sister?) Melantha Blackwood up in the North.

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6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Chances are that Walder Frey ends up being connected rather intimately to Dunk & Egg later in his life. Ha named one of his elder sons Aenys, and that guy named his sons Aegon and Rhaegar (and Rhaegar named his eldest son Robert ;-)). Stevron Frey also named his second son Aegon (Jinglebell the lackwit) and a daughter Maegelle.

All that could imply that young Lord Walder Frey was rather close (or interested in sucking up to) King Aegon V. Chances are not that great that he was already Lord of the Crossing under King Maekar, although it is not that impossible. We don't know how long his father lived.

One could speculate that Walder aimed at becoming the Lord Paramount of the Trident in the wake of the Celia Tully marriage debacle, siding with King Aegon V against Lord Tully in whatever conflict they had after Jaehaerys spurned his Tully bride in favor of his own sister Shaera.

Who the three kings were that stayed at the Twins is unclear. Likely indeed Robert (perhaps before or after the campaign against the Ironborn), Aegon V, and Aerys II (although Aerys II wasn't exactly that much of a travel king - but he was more agile during this first decade as king, and he could have done a progress in the Riverlands on the way to or back from his visits in the West).

But if Walder became Lord of the Crossing in the 220s the first king he hosted could indeed have been Maekar.

Betha Blackwood is likely a queen that stayed at the Twins, too, being a Riverlander herself, and not unlikely to visit her relation (sister?) Melantha Blackwood up in the North.

We know that Dunk and Egg spend some time in the Riverlands, and there's speculation about them having an involvement in an incident at Pennytree. It wouldn't be surprising if the Freys were mixed up in that as well, though it's in lands disputed by the Brackens and Blackwoods. 

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27 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Aenys

I always found really strange that he named his son after someone who was regarded as weak ruler. It's also possible that Emmon is variation of Aemon.

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12 minutes ago, Kandrax said:
42 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

I always found really strange that he named his son after someone who was regarded as weak ruler

Interestingly, it might make more sense if Aenys Frey was named after Aenys Blackfyre, who was executed maybe seven years before Aenys Frey was born...

This idle speculation is the kind of foundation that tinfoils are built on, so I'll try not to go crazy. His naming his sons after Targaryens could be a way of reaffirming his loyalty to the Red Dragons if Walder's loyalty was ever in question...

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8 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

It could only be Robert, Aerys, and Jahaerys II. He’d be too young to play host to Aegon V

Not necessarily, he was a boy in the mystery knight, making him well old enough to be a decently competent Lord by the time Egg ascends the throne.

Edited by Leonardo

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Aegon V and his wife Betha Blackwood. Probably during their visit to Winterfell. Probably Aegon and Betha met each other in Winterfell, during events described in the novel The She-Wolves of Winterfell, when the Lady of Winterfell was Melantha Blackwood.

Robert Baratheon and Cersei prior and after their visit to Winterfell, when Robert made Ned his Hand. And probably a few years prior that, in span of Greyjoy Rebellion, in oppression of which Robert took part.

Third King was probably Aerys II, or Maekar I, or even Jaehaerys II.

"When Lord Rickard Stark of Winterfell visited King's Landing in 264 AC, the king hatched a plan to build a new Wall hundreds of miles north of the current one and claim all the lands in between." So maybe he did visited Winterfell, and The Wall, and thus went thru Twins.

By the time when Aegon V was crowned, Walder was 25 years old (born in 208). Though based on what he said, could be that those Kings visited the Twins, when Walder wasn't yet head of House Frey. "I've had three kings to guest in my life, and queens as well" - this doesn't mean, that he was the head of the House, when Freys hosted those guests, or that when Lord Walder Frey was host of those people, they were already crowned. So one of those Kings, could have been someone, who ruled even prior Aegon V, like Aegon's father Maekar I (died in 233, when Walder was 25), or his uncle Aerys I (died in 221, when Walder was 13), or his son Jaehaerys II (died in 262, when Walder was 54).

Thus maybe it was Jaehaerys II, but when he visited Twins, he wasn't yet King of 7K (his reign was in 259-262). Maybe when Aegon V visited Twins, his son Jaehaerys was with him and Betha. And many years later, he did became King, so because he also once upon a time visited Twins, Walder counted him too as his guest.

Or maybe when Egg went to Winterfell, his father Maekar also went there, and thus passed thru Twins.

Or maybe Aerys I eventually did took part in the battle against Dagon Greyjoy, when Ironborn were raiding Fair Isle, the Arbor, and the north. It happened sometime close to 215. And Aerys was King in 209-221. Maybe when Aerys visited Twins, he was King, but Walder wasn't yet Lord of Twins. Or maybe he was, because it isn't known when exactly did his father died. So could be that by 215, when Walder was only 7 years old, his father was already dead, and thus Walder was head of their House, and hosted King Aerys I as his guest.

1. Aegon V and Betha Blackwood.

2. Robert Baratheon and Cersei Lannister.

3. Aerys I, or Maekar I, or Jaehaerys II and Shaera, or Aerys II and Rhaella.

Edited by Megorova

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Robert Baratheon and Cersei prior and after their visit to Winterfell, when Robert made Ned his Hand. And probably a few years prior that, in span of Greyjoy Rebellion, in oppression of which Robert took part.

The land route from KL to Winterfell does not pass through the Twins.

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2 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

The land route from KL to Winterfell does not pass through the Twins.

The Kingsroad doesn't go thru Twins, but starting from Crossroads Inn (400 miles north from Kings Landing), near Darry's castle, and all the way to Winterfell, and that's approximately 1,200 miles, there's no other cities, towns, villages, inns, etc. So on the Kingsroad, there's no places to rest, or to buy food, or to change horses. While the Twins are located 1/3 of the way from Crossroads Inn to Winterfell, approximately 100 miles to the West from Kingsroad. So if on the way North, people need to rest, or to change horses, etc. then they will have to go to Freys.

Jon Connington said that it takes 6 months to travel from Stormlands to The Wall, thus probably 3+ months to travel from Kings Landing to Winterfell. No horses can carry enough food, that will last for such a long trip. And also food does become spoiled over time. So it's either you make a 100 miles detour to the Twins, or you'll go another 800+ miles without food, or rest.

Edited by Megorova

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14 minutes ago, Megorova said:

The Kingsroad doesn't go thru Twins, but starting from Crossroads Inn (400 miles north from Kings Landing), near Darry's castle, and all the way to Winterfell, and that's approximately 1,200 miles, there's no other cities, towns, villages, inns, etc. So on the Kingsroad, there's no places to rest, or to bye food, or to change horses.

Sure there are, they just haven't been important enough thus far to have been included by GRRM on maps.

When Catelyn approaches the crossroads inn in AGOT Catelyn V:

Quote

The rain obscured the fields beyond the crossroads, but Catelyn saw the land clear enough in her memory. The marketplace was just across the way, and the village a mile farther on, half a hundred white cottages surrounding a small stone sept. There would be more now; the summer had been long and peaceful. North of here the kingsroad ran along the Green Fork of the Trident, through fertile valleys and green woodlands, past thriving towns and stout holdfasts and the castles of the river lords.

While not related to this Twins/kingsroad discussion, Barrowton isn't mentioned in the text until ASOS and isn't shown on a map until AFFC.

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