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Dead headofMaelysKinslayer

Forest guy who only blames human beings

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Bran: Where are the rest of you?

Leaf: Gone down into the earth … Into the stones, into the trees. Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us.

I'm irritated by these forest guys. They only blame human but there is no single word about the Others which are real danger to humanity. 

What did they expect Stannis to do when giants attacked the Wall or Cersei when Nymeria attacked Prince Joffrey? How people of Westerlands, Skagos and Beyond the Wall must live without hunting great lions, unicorns and mammoths?

The unicorns are all but gone. I want to see Leaf's face when Rickon comes back with unicorn.

Edited by Dead headofMaelysKinslayer

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I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Leaf isn't, to me, blaming Men. Certainly not specifically blaming Stannis for killing Giants, or Cersei for demanding Lady's death. 

10 minutes ago, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling.

Sounds to me that she's more resigned to the CotFs decline. That the time of all these things (the Children, Giants, Direwolves, Unicorns etc.) is ending, and Men will inherit all. It's the end of an age, and the start of another, seems to be what she's saying. 

And why would she mention the Others... What do they have to do with the decline of these old races? The Others have (as far as we know) nothing to do with Man becoming the dominant civilisation in Westeros, and the Children's time coming to an end. 

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Leaf laments the passing of their golden age, rightfully so. You seem pretty angry over someone thinking their race being extinguished is regrettable. 

Also, perhaps she does not blame the Others for a reason? Ask yourself why she would not blame them, and it may lead you to some interesting conclusions. 

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33 minutes ago, ChuckPunch said:

Also, perhaps she does not blame the Others for a reason? Ask yourself why she would not blame them, and it may lead you to some interesting conclusions. 

Do you think that Others never killed Children of Forest? 

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9 minutes ago, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

Do you think that Others never killed Children of Forest? 

That's not what Bran is asking, or what Leaf is talking about here though. Bran is asking what happened to their race, as a whole, and why they are in decline. Not "what other races have killed a member of your race at any time in the past". 

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2 hours ago, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

I'm irritated by these forest guys. They only blame human but there is no single word about the Others which are real danger to humanity. 

The others are not a problem for the children. Before the first men, they had all the weapons needed to fight the others, Obsidian, fire and magic. Combine this with a continent wide early warning network manned my living gods and they were pretty well setup. Then people cam with their bronze weapons, and big torches and they killed the children, cut down the weirwoods and made the entire continent vulnerable. 

2 hours ago, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

What did they expect Stannis to do when giants attacked the Wall or Cersei when Nymeria attacked Prince Joffrey? How people of Westerlands, Skagos and Beyond the Wall must live without hunting great lions, unicorns and mammoths?

I do not think the not-elf was referring to specific events. She was referring to the legacy of men, which is ultimately the destruction of al the magical creatures on the continent 

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2 hours ago, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

Do you think that Others never killed Children of Forest? 

Indeed I do not think an Other has ever killed a Singer.

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Well, think about how you would feel if the human race was reduced to only a tiny number hiding out in the middle of a frozen wasteland surrounded by significantly more powerful ice beings and the walking dead. I agree there is a tinge of bitterness in Leaf's words but it's understandable. The Children of the Forest were "out-Darwined" by the humans and she is living at the twilight of her species that was once dominant. Given their culture surrounds the worship of trees that act as magical memory sticks where history is easily acceptable, they must be very aware of how far they have fallen. Whether the Others are defeated or not, she knows her species is dying out. Species dying out and being replaced by others is the way of life (and something we in the real world might need to face one day).

Of course, Bran as good as points out that if humans were in the same position they wouldn't take it lying down -- whether that is a observation that the humans won't go down without a fight or a hint that Leaf and her people are more "wroth" than she's letting on... we'll have to wait and see.

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On 4/20/2018 at 3:51 PM, Faera said:

Of course, Bran as good as points out that if humans were in the same position they wouldn't take it lying down -- whether that is a observation that the humans won't go down without a fight or a hint that Leaf and her people are more "wroth" than she's letting on... we'll have to wait and see.

Bran forgets that the Children of the Forest have been fighting since the First Men arrived on Westeros - well over 8,000 years. Could men fight on that long, and make such little headway, their numbers constantly declining, without eventually resigning themselves to defeat?

On 4/20/2018 at 9:50 AM, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

They only blame human but there is no single word about the Others which are real danger to humanity. 

Why would the Children give a rat's scuzzy arse about "the fate of effin' humanity", given that Men have been trying to destroy them for well over 8,000 years? Like I noted, the Children have fought Men for literally millennia. Now it's Men's turn to fight their own battles against the Others. Seems like karma, and how do like them apples?

We have no indication that the Children particularly care about Joffery's childish squabble at the Ruby Ford, nor the intra-Men slaughter at the Wall. Men will kill anything, right? If there's no external enemy, they turn on one another. Tough. And as for Rickon returning "riding a unicorn" - when did he become a maiden fair? The kid is 5 or 6 years old. He'd be more likely to ride his direwolf, like Princess Mononoke. And "all but gone" is a way of saying "they're not gone yet."

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I think the Children are to Westeros what Elves are to Middle Earth. 

In LotR, the Elves all depart (Arwen excluded) to live out their days in the Grey Havens once the battle for Middle Earth has been won.

I would not be surprised if it was a similar situation - the Children helping Bran to prepare for the fight against the others/Battle for the Dawn 2.0.

I don't think they specifically hate humans - they seem pretty wise and able to understand that each race has their time but their time is almost up. If they hated humans so much because of the First Men's arrival/fighting them for so long, why are they helping Blood Raven and Bran? It really seems to me like they know they are almost done, and want to help humans against a bigger threat.

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10 hours ago, Mat92 said:

It really seems to me like they know they are almost done, and want to help humans against a bigger threat.

I like this theory, too. (One day, we shall see if that's what George RR has planned, also.)

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I see the plight of the diminishing Children of the Forest as similar to the Tuatha Dé Danann of ancient Irish folklore and mythology.  They were the inspiration for many archetypes and prototypes for the creatures that would eventually become known as faerie.  They are often described as a godlike supernatural race that was displaced by men and faded in power and influence to eventually retreat voluntarily below ground to act as observers of the world.

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5 hours ago, White Ravens said:

I see the plight of the diminishing Children of the Forest as similar to the Tuatha Dé Danann of ancient Irish folklore and mythology.  They were the inspiration for many archetypes and prototypes for the creatures that would eventually become known as faerie.  They are often described as a godlike supernatural race that was displaced by men and faded in power and influence to eventually retreat voluntarily below ground to act as observers of the world.

Nice analogy.

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On 22.4.2018. at 0:18 AM, zandru said:

And as for Rickon returning "riding a unicorn

This "Rick will ride unicorn into the battle", i put on same level as "Danny will burn Freys" or "Nymeria's pack will unite with BWB" 

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That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling.

Yup definitely doesn't sound like Elves. No George, I believe you, the CotF aren't your version of Elves. No. Not at all. No.
It's just a coincidence that they are long-lived, magical, close to nature and are past their prime and fading in the "world of men".

Edited by Orphalesion

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On 20/04/2018 at 4:50 PM, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

They only blame human but there is no single word about the Others

As others have said, the Others didn't wipe out the Children, humans did.

We actually don't know what the Children's relationship with the Others is. You might assume that the Children are on the side of "good" and the Others are on the side of "evil", but the whole series seems to turn such assumptions upside down. 

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On 4/20/2018 at 11:50 AM, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

I'm irritated by these forest guys. They only blame human but there is no single word about the Others which are real danger to humanity. 

What did they expect Stannis to do when giants attacked the Wall or Cersei when Nymeria attacked Prince Joffrey? How people of Westerlands, Skagos and Beyond the Wall must live without hunting great lions, unicorns and mammoths?

The unicorns are all but gone. I want to see Leaf's face when Rickon comes back with unicorn.

Leaf is using the Forrest as an analogy for Westeros.

Men are the dear, who if left unchecked overpopulate the wood.

Children are now all but gone, with no room left now that Men have expanded into all the secret woodlands and whatnot.

The Others are the wolves, who haven’t been around to cull the heard, until now.

Leaf isn’t explaining some elven long dwindling and self exile into the west, a la Tolkien...

Men would seek vengeance, Men would be wroth. So are the children, and the man bound in their tree, that is why they have brought back the Others (wolves) to cull the Men (deer).

Edited by LiveFirstDieLater

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